Jump + Scroll wheel= lame

This is just my opinion, but i realy think its lame. Bhopping can be done by learning timing, there are many of us that can do it. Spamming the scroll wheel for jump is as bad as a macro in my opinion.

Bobadin wrote:This is just my opinion, but i realy think its lame. Bhopping can be done by learning timing, there are many of us that can do it. Spamming the scroll wheel for jump is as bad as a macro in my opinion.

ef u, you try to hit the space bar from the arrow keys and i can do the timing cuz ive played warsow the timing in there is insane compared to hl2

Like i said it was just my opinion. Maybe you shouldn't use the arrow keys?

Wow you can do that!? I'm totally switching! I kid I kid, I've already taken the time to learn it with default movement, its quite natural after you've done it a billion times. I've always been partial to wep binds on my mouse instead of movement stuff anyway.

@ Neolinkster Arrow keys!? 0_o Took a note from Conflicts' book eh? You must have GIANT hands man, I mean I got big hands and long fingers, but I could never make that work. Just curious, why not use wasd or esdf? There are SO many more possiblilites for various binds that it seems like the logical choice over arrow keys.

Bobadin wrote:Like i said it was just my opinion. Maybe you shouldn't use the arrow keys?

nope my hands are to big for default i would have arthritis by the end of the week

I'm sure there are other buttons on the mouse?? My dislike of the mousewheel is its basically writting a macro to hit jump every 1ms without even going through the trouble of writing it. :roll:

Epoch wrote:Wow you can do that!? I'm totally switching! I kid I kid, I've already taken the time to learn it with default movement, its quite natural after you've done it a billion times. I've always been partial to wep binds on my mouse instead of movement stuff anyway.

@ Neolinkster Arrow keys!? 0_o Took a note from Conflicts' book eh? You must have GIANT hands man, I mean I got big hands and long fingers, but I could never make that work. Just curious, why not use wasd or esdf? There are SO many more possiblilites for various binds that it seems like the logical choice over arrow keys.

actually I had arrow keys like a year before I met conflict

Oh w/e, hes just the only other person I've met who used that setup.

Got some shaq hands on yah eh?

Its not lame, I use both space and mwheel. its nice when you want to bhop after falling from a distance or if your on uneven ground like on avalon and want to get somwhere fast. and even when I use the mwheel I dont spam it.

Briggs wrote:and even when I use the mwheel I dont spam it.

so your timing every click?

no, I'm just saying I don’t spam the hell out of it with no sense of timing, and I can use space just fine.

meh, I admit I love wheeling.

I learned the right way by using space, but one day some one talked me into trying the wheel and uh I'm never going back.

I will tell you this and it's a fact, spamming it or not you cannot get the timing as perfect as you can by doing it with space, therefore someone who wheels will not be able to get the timing *perfect* and therefore will not move as fast as someone who does it with a button and has awesome timing.

So in reality the players who choose to wheel are at a slight disadvantage when it comes to speed. So you may ask "why do it then?" my answer is simple, its very comfortable and less stressful on your hand and wrist. I found that when you play for extended periods of time you are using your thumb more so than any other finger (due to bhopping) and after a hour or so your thumb gets tired and your jumps can become sloppy and mistimed. Rolling the wheel just takes less effort thats all.

I would have to agree that macros are lame, as your more or less scripting when you use a macro, but using the wheel really isn't any different than using any other button.

Warsow does not require any timing. You press jump before you hit the ground and you automatically jump on the first frame the server detects you as being on the ground. AFAIK it is just like quake. In fact nearly every game out there does this except goofy half-life. This is how it should be if you are going to include bunnyhopping it sets everything fair so that no script or anything will give another player an advantage.

How smooth or fast you bunnyhop will depend on how fast you scroll the wheel. I think you can easily go as fast or faster then anyone can ever do it with space if you have a good wheel. Try one of those wheels on the wireless VX series mice.

In the old days of Doom arrow keys were the default setup as such a large number of players use them. Newer players tend to use whatever the default in their first game is. And everyone once in a while some odd ball just makes up their own really crazy config. Alot of times though its a combination of effects that finalizes a config.

I use the mouse wheel, the reason I started using it was cause in HLDM nearly everyone used a script, and if you wanted to compete your only choice was to use the mouse wheel. When you use the mouse wheel you do cause yourself some pains in that aiming is slightly more difficult and you make a couple more mistakes per match. I used to use both space and mouse wheel and that was the best but when I thought I might make the FIOS tournament I reduced it to one to be LAN legal. If you only use 2 fingers to mouse then one of them will be busy jumping, or you can use 3 like me to free one up. The mouse wheel has one other advantage, that is that it can pull your through the effects of lag. How well you time your jumping depends on the server, if you are like me and play in anything from 10 ping up to 200 ping in South America or Europe, and everything in between you can use the mouse wheel to be a buffer that lets you play in all those environments. That said I bet their are other options, like autoscroll buttons and insert keys can probably allow you to bunny hop simply by holding down the key, and we know those guys with logitech G15 keyboards can program buttons to auto repeat.

I don't know if it is lame or not, the only thing I think is lame is that valve just does not remove the line of code that will make jumping more like quake so none of us have to worry about timing and who has what advantage or is doing what lame. And it's lame that if they really don't want people to jump like quake that they do not put in a real limit as to how fast you can press the jump key so you are forced to time it. Bad coding is the main cause behind controversy in games. If the game is coded right no one can find a loop hole around things.

I've been using arrow keys in fps longer than I remember, so I use jump on my mouse right click, never tried the wheel.

Fearsome* wrote:put in a real limit as to how fast you can press the jump key so you are forced to time it

I'd buy that for a dollar!!

Fearsome* wrote:How smooth or fast you bunnyhop will depend on how fast you scroll the wheel. I think you can easily go as fast or faster then anyone can ever do it with space if you have a good wheel. Try one of those wheels on the wireless VX series mice.

IDK, maybe it's just me then but I have done quite a bit of testing ( on mx518, G5, and razors) such as setting the scroll size to anywhere between 1 line to 100 lines per click as well as spinning the wheel very fast, medium and slow. I still see that I can gain more speed by using the space and timing it just right.

The one thing I have noticed is that sometimes you can avoid fall damage by spamming the wheel right when you hit the ground. You'll notice that you take off like a rocket when you do that and no damage is taken, but just like most things in this game it's not consistent.

Well in theory if you are spamming jump as you land you are overbouncing at the earliest possible opportunity. This may not be the optimal timing for the jump to gain maximum speed. AFAIK, jumping slightly early means you wont miss the jump, but you wont maintain maximum velocity either. Jumping slightly late on the other hand = stall.

Fearsome* wrote: and we know those guys with logitech G15 keyboards can program buttons to auto repeat
.

maybe this is a dumb question but wouldn't cal acs pick this up?

Walking Target wrote:Well in theory if you are spamming jump as you land you are overbouncing at the earliest possible opportunity. This may not be the optimal timing for the jump to gain maximum speed. AFAIK, jumping slightly early means you wont miss the jump, but you wont maintain maximum velocity either. Jumping slightly late on the other hand = stall.

This is exactly what I found.

The upside to wheeling is you never stall.

Ok, I am on the other side of the spectrum of hand size, I have very small hands. I have been asking a lot of people where they set they movement keys in particular jump and crouch because I am having a HELL of a time with a strafe jump, I had heard about the wheel and for me that would just be practically impossible to hit it with a good pace for Bhop, which I am just trying to get comfortable here. Nade has been teaching me the jumps and I was able to actually jump for the first time but when it comes to strafe jumping I hit A WALL, can't do the 4 buttons. When I asked Nade about the scroll wheel, he was just laughing at me (well he kinda does that a lot) but because I have done it the wrong way once (I am now paying for it by switching hands) I suggest trying to do it whichever way works for you. I can see some of the guys points, you have to make the equipment work for you, for your size, for your situation BUT this where the line gets fuzzy right?. If valve would at least make some type of policy and not leave us guessing to the order of "If they think it is, they would" perhaps we could have a clearer idea of what is right or wrong.

My two cents..

POMP

Bobadin wrote:

Fearsome* wrote: and we know those guys with logitech G15 keyboards can program buttons to auto repeat
.

maybe this is a dumb question but wouldn't cal acs pick this up?

The way cal acs works is a bit of a mystery as it should be, but I believe it has more to do with screen shots and enabling a third party to see *exactly* what you are seeing.

I'd recommend the normal WASD - ctrl crouch - shift sprint- and jump space first, it takes alot of time, practice, trial and error, you need to sync control with time and you know you're getting good when your movement seems predetermined without you even being aware of the path you're on

That's what I get out of it anyways. Going from scroll to normal I think would be hard xD So I say try normal first, then scroll, then see which is easier for ya, it just sounds too weird for me, jumping on the right side of my desk? YUCK.

I've got the same experience as Epoch, worked too much time on it the normal way, not going to give it up!

I'll say one thing though, there's nothing better in life then putting some fans around you at 3AM, putting on some music, loading up your own server, setting a few variables, cracking some knuckles, cracking some neck, cracking some back, and hopping in a map of your choice, oohhh the wind in my hair in a constant dashing and dodging around objects, the best part is the steady motion of it, and added speed around corners, I can't explain the feeeelliingggg, I am glad I am alive to do it.

Dang, I use my mouse wheel to crouch so I guess it's out of the question for me. I'm slightly confused though. When I hold my mouse I put my index finger on left click and my middle finger on right. Then when I go to scroll I move my index finger off of left click and on to the scroll wheel. I'm assuming most of the population does this. So how do you guys fire when you're jumping?

lawl. This is why i've binded mwheeldown and space to jump. You use mwheel for bhop and space for the initial jump and combat.

well, imo... everyone is entitled to their own cfg. I can use both though, space is more difficult but there is still timing involved with the 'spamming' of the mouse wheel, it isn't like you can just spin it once and it keeps spinning and you keep jumping. you have to actually keep doing it , I see where you're coming from though... but then again, the mouse wheel actually is still balanced out because it's harder for some people to shoot. you have to take your finger off of the mouse wheel to shoot, of course, jumping and shoosting doesn't really do you any good but it can help some times. it's also a lot harder to grav-gun fight D:

teto wrote:well, imo... everyone is entitled to their own cfg. I can use both though, space is more difficult but there is still timing involved with the 'spamming' of the mouse wheel, it isn't like you can just spin it once and it keeps spinning and you keep jumping. you have to actually keep doing it , I see where you're coming from though... but then again, the mouse wheel actually is still balanced out because it's harder for some people to shoot. you have to take your finger off of the mouse wheel to shoot, of course, jumping and shoosting doesn't really do you any good but it can help some times. it's also a lot harder to grav-gun fight D:

badinfluence wrote:lawl. This is why i've binded mwheeldown and space to jump. You use mwheel for bhop and space for the initial jump and combat.

LOL

All default keys here...

Plus...

Mousewheelup = UNBOUND
Mousewheeldown = UNBOUND

<333333333 Bobadin

Making things easier then they allready are would be gay(in response to fearsome), it would basically be an insult to the skill/player base of the hl2dm community.
In an ideal situation, like making my own game/mod for example, i would program in anti macro stuff an make scripting of certain things impossible, obviously thats not going to hapen, but a game where every aspect u had to learn was difficult in some way would be refreshing, and im talking online multiplayer games here...

Pernicious wrote:Making things easier then they allready are would be gay

Now that has to be the lamest thing I have ever heard. Thats a insult to human intelligence, who in their right mind would prefer to do something the hard way? Next time I have to tie my shoes I guess I should close my eyes and cross my arms so Im not taking the easy route and not being gay.

Yeah right lol!

Fearsome* wrote:Warsow does not require any timing. You press jump before you hit the ground and you automatically jump on the first frame the server detects you as being on the ground.

when was the last time you played ca moving at about 1800UPS at those speeds you have to hit the button at the right time as you are catapulted across the map in to the resulting wall that you have to wall jump off of in order to keep said momentum so yes in the normal dm you wouldnt need timing but moving around to where your at the shower room down to the back mag in lockdown in under a second you do require timing to hit the buttons otherwise you stall

@ POMP Like Coke said I would highly suggest that you learn it default/or very close to default, before you mess around with any of the odder ways of bhopping. It took me a couple of weeks if not a month when I was first learning to really start to be comfortable with my bhop in game situations. So percervierence is paramount, it will come with time and it feels so good once you start to get it. Its time well spent, trust me.

I personally have never liked the idea of movement stuff on my mouse, it just seems really weird to me. I've never had a reason to try it either so I never considered it until I heard people debating it in-game. I think if you practice enough and you make sure your left arm/hand are in a good ergonomic position getting a tired hand or thumb shouldn't happen. I've only been back playing for a little over a month and I've logged sessions of 10+hrs without tiring or experiencing fatigue great enough to effect my bhop timing. I believe this is due to the fact that I spent some time to figure out the most ergonomic way that I caould layout my setup. And it works I'm always comfortable, no more cramps, no more loss of feeling in my fingers, no more symptoms of carpal tunnel, I don't feel any discomfort even after excessively long sessions with the way I have everything setup. So if bhopping with deafault key cfg is unncomfortable or even painful to some people look into ergonomics, small changes in positioning and posture can make a huge difference. Like the difference between having carpal tunnel and a healthy wrist.

Epoch wrote: I think if you practice enough and you make sure your left arm/hand are in a good ergonomic position getting a tired hand or thumb shouldn't happen. I've only been back playing for a little over a month and I've logged sessions of 10+hrs without tiring or experiencing fatigue great enough to effect my bhop timing..

Check back with me when your 40 and you have been doing it everyday for 15 yrs!

I have in the past experienced problems with my wrists, ligaments, tendons and carpal tunnels, but I love gaming ( I don't let it rule my life ) but when I get the chances I game for a hour or two each day, it's a great escape from life's daily stresses.

I agree you should learn the fundamentals first, then try different things to see whats most comfortable. To say everyone should start off with the default cfg is a different story. In every game I have ever played the first thing I have done is change the controls. I never played hl2dm with wasd or any game for that matter, as I knew how to type properly first and it just makes sense to me to use a esdf set up.

The fact that since day one Valve gave us the ability to bind jump to mousewheel down in the GUI, make this whole topic a moot point and a matter of opinion on who's cfg (set up) is better than another's. I mean seriously, just because Seagull made like the first tutorial on how to bhop, using wasd, does not mean that is the way it has to be done or your lame.

Nate_The_Great wrote:LOL

All default keys here...

Plus...

Mousewheelup = UNBOUND
Mousewheeldown = UNBOUND

<333333333 Bobadin

pssh you act like you never used mwheel which if my memory serves me right you did. :evil: <3 xoxo

I just find it much easier as it frees my thumb up so i can concentrate on strafing ducking etc then when ui combat i switch to space.
The downside is it is probably harder to shoot whilst bunnyhopping using this technique
both ways have their Pros and cons.
By the way if you spin the wheel too fast nothign happens, I have a G9 and set the wheel on free wheel but it only registers when it starts to slow down however using the freewheel in firefox works flawlessly.
Some games dont allow binding the wheel to jump like quake 4 i have to play using space but then again Q4 bhop is easy compared to HL2DM

L2k wrote:I mean seriously, just because Seagull made like the first tutorial on how to bhop, using wasd, does not mean that is the way it has to be done or your lame.

Hahahah thats a great way of putting it, thats definately why most people learn or have learned it in the past with default setup. This defineitely comes down to personal preference. There will always be people who are a little miffed to find out there is an easier way to do something they took a lot of time to learn the hard way. If people scroll while learning though I find that to be a cop out, simply because there isn't as much emphasis on needing to learn the timing, and it will limit you in combat, unless you are a proficient three finger mouse user. But w/e ,power to the scroll hoppers, I'll alwasy say default movement FTW!

Epoch wrote:If people scroll while learning though I find that to be a cop out, simply because there isn't as much emphasis on needing to learn the timing, and it will limit you in combat, unless you are a proficient three finger mouse user. But w/e ,power to the scroll hoppers, I'll alwasy say default movement FTW!

badinfluence wrote:lawl. This is why i've binded mwheeldown and space to jump. You use mwheel for bhop and space for the initial jump and combat.

I don't see why doing something such as bhop in the most effecient and easy way as being lame tbh we all do things that suit us best and it would be lame to be forced to do a movement or action in just one way. I started off using space bar as jump and i learnt that i it required too much work where i need to consientrate on what my oppoent is doing rather than focusing alot on my movement. Only until i started using wheelup as jump (most people do wheel down but that my preference) I could play start to fly across the map with ease and could consentrate on other aspects of my game. I really don't spam my wheel as well i still time it just like i did with the space bar but its not as responsive as the wheel. Pls what about crouch if i need three fingers for direction keys and on two for sprint and jump where the 6th finger to duck unless i have to keep moving my finger potions to achieve it which is just unpractical for me.

Scripting is efficient, and easy, so are macros, so i assume SND and l2k have no problems about that?
If i had my way, the only way to make bhoping easier would be to change ur key mappings, and that is not an insult to anyones intelligence, that doesnt even make any real sense, babying the hl2dm community an giving them an easy way out is more of an insult to intelligence....
That being said, that is my opinion, and other ppl in teh past have disagreed with my point of veiw on gaming and how complicated fps games should become.

Pernicious wrote:Scripting is efficient, and easy, so are macros, so i assume SND and l2k have no problems about that?

had a feeling someone would bring up scripting when i said that first part.
well I do have a problem with this since that using something in a way that was not provided in the game that gives u a advantage over your opponent example turning one key to do two action to reduce amount of actions to do a movement is lame.
Since the game provides u to choose your key setup to suit around u then how can u say customizing your controls as being lame not everyone is the same ( I know a guy that has his forward button on his mouse button 4) and what ever key setup helps them best then whats a the problem with that u have that option too. Just because u choose not to and others do does not make them lame. I spent along time to developing my bhop and for anyone to say that my method is lame is a insult to be honest and I went throe just like any another player that can do bhop the pain of learning this technique.

I know plenty of pro players that use it so i guess they are lame as well then?

I never said anybody was lame, i said the act of scrolling jump was lame.(not as much timing or thinking about it and not being able to hit faster speeds) To each his own, i use mousebutton 5 for my jump, mb 4 for sprint and space as crouch. I never realized people would get so pissy over my opinion.

SND wrote:pro players

LAWL

How many people you know who get PAID to play hl2dm???

Pernicious wrote:Making things easier then they allready are would be gay(in response to fearsome), it would basically be an insult to the skill/player base of the hl2dm community.
In an ideal situation, like making my own game/mod for example, i would program in anti macro stuff an make scripting of certain things impossible, obviously thats not going to hapen, but a game where every aspect u had to learn was difficult in some way would be refreshing, and im talking online multiplayer games here...

If you make something stupid like the timing of a jump a crucial item you do 2 negative things to the game. 1 you punish people with high ping or even those like I said who play on a variety of servers. Second people focus more on that skill and less on others. Do you really want everyone screwing around all day with the timing of a jump or would you rather give them the time to advance skills that will be more interesting such as mastering 10 bounce xbow shots. To me if I am making a game I would rather have them focusing on map and weapon mastery.

For the most part snd, i was refering to the whole quake thing, making the timing easier, but as far as wheeling jump goes i think if u can press butons well enough, ie change weapons, press sprint, press crouch, then theres no reason to spam jump on teh wheel, and spaming = jump + rather then just jump, if it were that jump could only be done once by scrolling then sure, it would be just as skillfull as pressing a buton. As for it being lame, well, i dont judge others, its too lame for me to use personally though, i would feel like, i dont know, it would just seem to easy to be worth doing...like i would feel i was missing out on some good practice or something.
The scripting thing was a response to the way u worded ur post.

I play with the worst connection here, with high ping an packet loss galore, bunnyhoping is only a problem wen teh lag gets extreme an starts jerking u around, or wen u get like 350+ ping.
As for focus, i know from personal experience that u can do all at once rather then just being good at one or 2 things seperatly, the more skill required for a game, the more the practiced and or skilled stand out, i would much rather that then it being dumbed down.

Bobadin wrote:SND wrote:
pro players


LAWL

How many people you know who get PAID to play hl2dm???

lol when did pro players in this game get paid :0 it they do i would like to know lol

sure timing skill i got respect for that. I actually am able to use space bar as duck for bhop but I noticed that it did not help me when im in a fight with someone, like I do my strafe jump and someone hits he with a mag or shotty i loss momentum and is an unable to continue my bhop and because im so busy shotting at this guy i can't consecrate on getting my timing right and is unable to bhop , making me stand there like a easy target for them.
My clan captain told me to change to scroll and with that my other parts of the game got better i could have a mag fight move freely and focus on my aim and my surroundings. I know that space bar might be good for faster bhop but i can do 480-490 and thats because i don't spam my wheel and still time it like i did with the space bar and that I just find that it more flexible than spacebar.

at the end of the day i want to focus on getting the kill and staying alive and not worry about timing my bhop it may be the easy way but it allows me to focus on more interesting and important aspects of the game.

Hmmm not sure wat u mean by all that O.o.
I can see strafe jumping ina fight to be relevant, but if ur overbouncing in a full on gun fight ur doing something wrong i think XD, and overbouncing is the only thing i can see the wheel helping with? =\

wow you missed that completley, Pro=Profesional=you get paid to do it....



proˈfessional3 [-ʃə-] adjective

earning money by performing, or giving instruction, in a sport or other activity that is a pastime for other people; not amateur
Example: a professional musician/golfer

Neolinkster wrote: but moving around to where your at the shower room down to the back mag in lockdown in under a second you do require timing to hit the buttons otherwise you stall

impossible.

i use both mwheeldown and space. I never could use space for all of my DM years since quake 2. I always used mouse 2 for jump. Well low and behold hl2dm has alt fire! yay! Since I started hl2dm I've been through about 5 different movement configs alone.

Anyways, I used to think scrolling jump was lame and all that. I eventually adapted to it and found myself bhopping faster than I ever could. I just recently started using space as jump and I'm really trying to make a transfer to use just space but mwheeldown is still my backup.

For the record: If you do it right, you'll definately move faster with mwheeldown rather than space. I dont care what anyone says.

em im sorry i did not use the correct English there its just that many people call them selfs pro or call one pro at least i know know thats the wrong term to use .

I guess what im was actual saying many top players i know use scroll for jump and if they use it then how can it be lame this is how many view it when deciding on should i try this set up if they do it why not me?

and what i was trying to say in my last post is that i found my self stalling allot in matches when i was using space. fine when i was alone training it but when u are under pressure such as trying to get in and out of a area fast, timing can go out of your mind.

I got a question if u use the default set up then two of your fingers have two tasks to do each where as with the wheel only one finger has two buttons to press WS. Do u change your hand position? because i find it difficult to hit ctrl with my little finger with out moving my middle three fingers on awsd keys. Thats a other reason why most use wheel because they find it easier to multi task on the mouse leaving my other hand to rest in a conformable position on the key board.

I personally think concentrating on your mouse curv and alternating between A & D which requires timing is more important than the timing of the just the jump.

Bobadin wrote:

Fearsome* wrote:put in a real limit as to how fast you can press the jump key so you are forced to time it

I'd buy that for a dollar!!

As would i. Its unfortunate that the wheel is able to basically emulate a macro in this game, but nevertheless i dont see wheeling as lame, as the mousewheel is pretty much an accepted staple in gaming now... and accordingly we can expect to see it used in competitive play until the mouse itself becomes obsolete.

Making the horribly slow weapon switching instantaneous and adding a cooldown to each weapon firing/use instead would be a big improvment too.

"fine when i was alone training it but when u are under pressure such as trying to get in and out of a area fast, timing can go out of your mind."

Exactly, its easier, yet again.

"I guess what im was actual saying many top players i know use scroll for jump and if they use it then how can it be lame this is how many view it when deciding on should i try this set up if they do it why not me?"

Sad to hear...in a way, quite frankly, the timing in hl2dm is not difficult, why do so many resort to that...

"I got a question if u use the default set up then two of your fingers have two tasks to do each where as with the wheel only one finger has two buttons to press WS. Do u change your hand position? because i find it difficult to hit ctrl with my little finger with out moving my middle three fingers on awsd keys. Thats a other reason why most use wheel because they find it easier to multi task on the mouse leaving my other hand to rest in a conformable position on the key board."

Just because u found it uncomfortable doesnt mean u should have gone straight for the wheel, , that reason is lamer then actually doing it
I dont use default setup, wat u should have done, wen u first started playing, or first discovered bhoping, is set up ur config in a way so u can bhop in complete harmony, i never ever ever ever used default because wen i first started playing hl2dm i came from other fps games, and none of those used the same controls as hl2dm, so i changed them to suit wat i was using with the others, lata on wen i needed more keys i changed my config completly, and took the time to get used to it.

My config is as follows..just to show u how i changed my controls around the whole sprint jump duck thing.

unbindall
//||----------controls------------||//
//====================================
//------------Movement--------------//
//cmd| |Button| |Function|
bind "a" "+moveleft"
bind "d" "+moveright"
bind "s" "+back"
bind "w" "+forward"
bind "SPACE" "+speed"
bind "SHIFT" "+duck"
bind "MOUSE2" "+jump"
//------------Weapons---------------//
bind "MOUSE1" "+attack"
bind "MOUSE3" "+attack2"
bind "TAB" "use weapon_smg1"
bind "b" "use weapon_ar2"
bind "c" "use weapon_pistol"
bind "f" "use weapon_357"
bind "z" "use weapon_shotgun"
bind "o" "shotty1"
bind "q" "mtog"
bind "r" "use weapon_physcannon"

bind "MOUSE4" "slot5"
bind "CTRL" "use weapon_crossbow"
//bind "MOUSE5" "use weapon_rpg"
bind "n" "toggle_zoom"
bind "e" "+reload"
//-------------Misc-----------------//
bind "ESCAPE" "cancelselect"
bind "k" "+scoretime"

bind "MOUSE5" "+use"
bind "F5" "jpeg"
bind "0" "impulse 100" //------------//Flashlight
bind "5" "impulse 203" //------------//Remove entity
bind "'" "messagemode"
bind ";" "messagemode2"
bind "`" "toggleconsole"
bind "t" "impulse 201"
//-------------Extra----------------//
bind "8" "exec ai\HL2DM_AI.cfg"
bind "9" "nameswap"
bind "-" "spectate"
bind "=" "jointeam 0"
bind "PgDn" "jointeam"
bind "." "freezer"
bind "," "unfreezer"

//||-----------Alias-------------||//
//===================================
//--------------------------Freezer---------------------------------------//
//cmd| |Alias| |Functions|
alias freezer "ent_setname freeze; ent_fire freeze disablemotion"
alias unfreezer "ent_setname unfreeze; ent_fire unfreeze enablemotion"
//-----------------------Stunstick & Crowbar Toggler----------------------//
alias mtog "mtog1"
alias mtog1 "use weapon_stunstick; use weapon_crowbar; alias mtog mtog2"
alias mtog2 "use weapon_crowbar; use weapon_stunstick; alias mtog mtog1"
//---------------------------Timeleft + scores----------------------------//
alias +scoretime "timeleft; +showscores"
alias -scoretime "-showscores"
//-------------------------------Weapon-----------------------------------//
alias shotty1 "use weapon_shotgun"

Jettex wrote:Neolinkster wrote: but moving around to where your at the shower room down to the back mag in lockdown in under a second you do require timing to hit the buttons otherwise you stall

impossible.

I meant in the terms of warsow where your moving that distance that fast and your about to hit a wall the wall jump/special button cant just be pushed and held till you hit the wall and bounce off it and you have to overbounce/normal jump till you get there then time the wall jump properly or you'll just hit the wall stall and have to up your speeds again

Pernicious wrote:Scripting is efficient, and easy, so are macros, so i assume SND and l2k have no problems about that?

L2k wrote:I would have to agree that macros are lame, as your more or less scripting when you use a macro, but using the wheel really isn't any different than using any other button.

Has anyone ever explained to you about assuming things?

If not I will, when you assume things you make a *ASS* out of *U* and *ME*

Next time read the entire thread before making a ass of of you and me!

Also in case you didn't see it earlier,

L2k wrote:The fact that since day one Valve gave us the ability to bind jump to mousewheel down in the GUI, make this whole topic a moot point and a matter of opinion on who's cfg (set up) is better than another's. I mean seriously, just because Seagull made like the first tutorial on how to bhop, using wasd, does not mean that is the way it has to be done or your lame.

To go one step further, if the only way to BHOP was by spamming jump, I'm quite sure you wouldn't have any problems with wheeling at all.

I will also say it has been quite interesting to see how many well known players have responded and have had the balls to admit they use the wheel, its starting to sound like the non wheelers are in the minority.

I use space but thats why i am sloow i been messing around with mwheel for the past 4 days i can get the hang of it for the most part, but i don't like getting poned while i get used to it and sometimes revert back to my old config of ctrl and space.

I use shift for crouch >__>;
And Space for jump.
Sprint is mouse 4 for me.

O:

It took me about 4 hrs to feel totally comfortable with it, but felt akward as hell at first. When your starting out I would highly recommend having space and mousewheel down as jump. Start your strafe jump as you normally would, then on your first bounce start rolling that wheel and fly the friendly skies. If you choose to later you can use just the wheel only, but I don't see any problems with having both
I also started out using my index finger to use the wheel as using my middle finger felt way weird too, but I gradually got used to using the middle finger to roll down and someones gonna have to pry the wheel outa my cold dead hand to get me to stop now.

I been having a go at my mouse wheel and tried spamming the hell out of it and guess what i go damn slow. So u still have to time your jump on the wheel I picked this timing my jump off using my old config and using the timing i learnt off it i can go faster than most players. I am damn used to this config and i love it I got so much freedom with it it suit me like a glove and is so natural I don't have to even think about moving or what button i need to press.

I say try out the default see how it feels then try tweak your key config to suit around u and if wheel suits u then use it don't feel that you u are dirty or lame for using it many top players use it because it a damn good tool to use and as ko-toe has said it it expected in competitive gaming so there for it is not lame.

But im sure there will always be people saying that way is lame that weapon is lame and they are entitled to there option but it does not make them right.

We are all lames noobs that cannot bunnyhop without using lame assed techniques. BOOHOOO.
TBH i dotn give a monkeys armpit if you think wheeling is lame.
here is a proper wheelie

Starting that wheely must be a trick in itself. You've got to like petal into the wheely from a stop. Hes leet.

He is not pleased that hes catching with a scroll wheel D:

bind "MWHEELDOWN" "+jump" //WIN

omg those two images make me laugh loud.

SND you missed the OUT
LOL

There was obviously sarcasm in there l2k, an it was suposed to prevoke a response. Mmmm arguing on the internet...It did work though...kinda.

"but using the wheel really isn't any different than using any other button."

Negative. Mmakes me wonder if anyone has ever used PgUp or PgDn to jump b4.
The difference is, aside from the above, u press, u get one shot, theres more room for error.

Bobadin wrote:

SND wrote:pro players

LAWL

How many people you know who get PAID to play hl2dm???

My parents pay me to play hl2dm so I'm out of their hair. I must be the only pro player in dm.

To those who think the game would be better off with fewer complex dexterity or timing based techniques:

May i recommend the Real Time Strategy genre!

Because once youve dumbed the twitch factor of the game down enough, thats about all thats going to be left.

Btw, a similar arguement has been going on for years in the fighter community. It seems some of the newer renditions of old masterpieces such as ssf2t and 3s will indeed have some of their most difficult moves simplified... unfortunate, but so far its limited to a small handful of very complicated moves, and timings have been left alone.

Well I believe many would say to do bhop with a button or wheel requires allot skill if it did not then why did it take some to learn the technique more then 2 months I emphases the word learn not perfect. Its not the argument that wheel takes out the skill of the movement because the main important aspects of bhop is the curv and strafe keys timing still has to be done and as i said to do the bhop well u still have to time the jumps even with the wheel and if u just spam it u don't get anywhere fast. Its really a insult of intelligence to say to someone that uses there head and finds a way that makes makes bhop work for them less error free way that does not involve scrips or cheats. Its like saying to the guy that invented the wheel that there way is lame since that it takes out the effort in walking or even running com on that it self is lame. Just because players find a legit method in doing a techniques that is not same as your does not make it lame. If i used the buttons for my bhop i doubt i will be able to bhop on your US servers with my 110+ ping. Not everyone is the same and it would be wrong to expect everyone to do things in the same way.

I do agree with ko-toe on that games should not have to be dumbed down for the masses. Have any of u came across pro mod its a great game but one think i don't like about it is it does most bhop for u taken the fun out of learning it pls i can bhop with better moves on dm. But it makes up for it in other aspects in it gameplay and movement.

Currently, it is legit, yes, and currently, u are able to do it that way, but u never know..
DM pro is good for target practice And is just plain fun.
I still dont understand why ppl would want to do it though, really, i mean, why not just use a button? <----why? Besides discomfort which is a simple matter of chosing ur key layout carefully.

i don't see the problem, it just a rolling action instead of a pressing action, you still have to time it it's just a case of you can time it better on the mouse using the wheel than a button it's personal preference rather than making it easier, you change the button arrangement to make it easier for you to select weapons and get more kills how is that any different? Should that be made illegal coz you're not using stock controls?

Gates, u seem to be mmissing the point completly. I wont bother pointing out why as its allready been said.
Another thing to note wen talking about wheeling jump is how the scroller is set up, if its set up to scroll through more pages in windows, or in the software for said mouse, then the more it is going to spam jump. And also, aparently some wheels are better for spamming, or so i heard back in the days of grav spamming.

but you can't just spam jump to bhop you still have to time it... spamming doesn't make it work same with the space you can't just spam it to make it work... it'll jump at the wrong time and you stall that's my point, it's personal preference than anything else

if you can do it by spamming mousewheel good for you.. but i don't see how it is any different from changing the button configuration... some do, some don't, but it is a resource that is there.

Umm, time wat exactly, u only have to start scrolling b4 u hit the ground, wella, like i said, less room for error...
If someone can bhop by spamming wheel, big woop...

God, if folks were gettin paid to play DM, i would be one of those Motley Crue look-a-like bands payin to play CBGBs!

Binding the wheel, space bar, whatever.
Its in the game.
I actually think BI's idea of binding space AND wheel is smart.
I do it the old fashioned way- space bar jump and badly at that!

Sorry if no one cares but I'm gonna have to take the LAME side to this argument. It's just that whenever I think of someone spamming the mouse wheel, I think of TF2 Engineers who use it to rapid fire the pistol. Sure you COULD take the time to line up and time your shots, but why do that when you can just roll your crosshair across their chest and know you'll get a hit the moment you make contact? *note sarcasm* See what I'm saying here?

I just don't think the advantage is significant enough to worry about it. I think if you ask the best movers in hl2dm you will find most of them don't scroll.

meh...do it whatever way you like... just don't script it and i'm happy... at least there is still some human element with the wheel...

p.s. i use space and wheel... space for when i'm on a european server mouse for when i'm on a server with high ping...

i find controlling orbs and nades too hard with the wheel... (as i have to move my middle finger across to the left as it is not my natural hand position to have a finger on each... too much time spent with old windows mice...)

Walking Target wrote:I just don't think the advantage is significant enough to worry about it. I think if you ask the best movers in hl2dm you will find most of them don't scroll.

Seagull uses scroll for his bhop, also for ptrain

Uhh..ptrain? Why would you scroll to do ptrain?

hmm,, well im pretty sure seagull used scroll to jump ptrain, either way if he did or didnt, he cant prove that he did not. i could also say that I dont use scroll to jump at all and when you see me flying at 500+ velocity without missing a beat Ill tell you its space bar

Jettex wrote:hmm,, well im pretty sure seagull used scroll to jump ptrain, either way if he did or didnt, he cant prove that he did not. i could also say that I dont use scroll to jump at all and when you see me flying at 500+ velocity without missing a beat Ill tell you its space bar

Well I don't use it, so I am just trying to understand. I didn't think scrolling helped you strafe jump, only overbounce. Isn't scrolling the first jump hard to time???

I use scroll for everything, have been since HL1, /shrug

I tried ptrain with spacebar for an hour, but didn't really like it much. It wasn't comfortable for me so I just kept using my scroll

Well I wasn't concerned, I don't really care...I just don't do it so I don't know if it's good for the initial jump.

I dont think anyone here really cares that much how ppl do it, but i do hate things that create doubt.

Seagull wrote:I use scroll for everything, have been since HL1, /shrug

I tried ptrain with spacebar for an hour, but didn't really like it much. It wasn't comfortable for me so I just kept using my scroll

Well there you have it, Seagull is arguably the best mover in the game and he scrolls. I guess that pretty much sums it up for me. Thx Seagull

I use spacebar, only because thats what ive always used. after this cal season ends ill probably be making some changes to my config, and i think moving jump to mwheel will be one of them.

L2k wrote:

Seagull wrote:I use scroll for everything, have been since HL1, /shrug

I tried ptrain with spacebar for an hour, but didn't really like it much. It wasn't comfortable for me so I just kept using my scroll

Well there you have it, Seagull is arguably the best mover in the game and he scrolls. I guess that pretty much sums it up for me. Thx Seagull

I think Seagull and Stinky should have a race broom broom, mwheel vs spacebar hehe.

Blasphemy wrote:

L2k wrote:

Seagull wrote:I use scroll for everything, have been since HL1, /shrug

I tried ptrain with spacebar for an hour, but didn't really like it much. It wasn't comfortable for me so I just kept using my scroll

Well there you have it, Seagull is arguably the best mover in the game and he scrolls. I guess that pretty much sums it up for me. Thx Seagull

I think Seagull and Stinky should have a race broom broom, mwheel vs spacebar hehe.

Ha thats funny I was thinking the exact same thing, it would be a fun little contest for people to pit there movement skills against each other. Either make it some kind of flatgrass type map with no obstacles and then one thats like a obstacle course.

The original topic starter Bobadin is really fast, I think he could definitely do some damage in a race, would be fun to watch some of these speed demons go at it, and have a scroll team and a non scroll team.

L2k wrote: Ha thats funny I was thinking the exact same thing, it would be a fun little contest for people to pit there movement skills against each other. Either make it some kind of flatgrass type map with no obstacles and then one thats like a obstacle course.

The original topic starter Bobadin is really fast, I think he could definitely do some damage in a race, would be fun to watch some of these speed demons go at it, and have a scroll team and a non scroll team.

i was last in a race around the natural track that is overwatch, it was pretty cool. maybe too many obstacles though./?
record and post a demo if do this i'd watch.

So would I. O:

Seagulls movement is'nt good becauze he uses scroll, its good because he curves well and is precise, or more so.

As for the racing, the only way to do that would be to have time trials, cause a player only needs to get close to u at the beginning of the race and u lag about the place like a russian dial up gamer.

Having the right mouse movements and being more precise is what makes your movement good, Using scroll is more comfortable to me and also because it does not require AS much timing as using space you can concentrate on your mouse movements more. If you think using scroll is lame, then don’t use it, but bashing other players because of the controls they use is even lamer.

Briggs wrote:Having the right mouse movements and being more precise is what makes your movement good, Using scroll is more comfortable to me and also because it does not require AS much timing as using space you can concentrate on your mouse movements more. If you think using scroll is lame, then don’t use it, but bashing other players because of the controls they use is even lamer.

I think you may have misread what Pern was saying Briggs. You basically just said the same thing he said.

Walking Target wrote:

Briggs wrote:Having the right mouse movements and being more precise is what makes your movement good, Using scroll is more comfortable to me and also because it does not require AS much timing as using space you can concentrate on your mouse movements more. If you think using scroll is lame, then don’t use it, but bashing other players because of the controls they use is even lamer.

I think you may have misread what Pern was saying Briggs. You basically just said the same thing he said.

was not talking about pern WT, was just saying my opinion, sorry for the confusion.
Its just that I have been called lame several times for using mwheel to jump in game.
then when I read the subject " Jump + Scroll wheel= lame" it kinda offended me a little.

Ah ok, nvm then.

Bobadin wrote:I never said anybody was lame, i said the act of scrolling jump was lame.(not as much timing or thinking about it and not being able to hit faster speeds) To each his own, i use mousebutton 5 for my jump, mb 4 for sprint and space as crouch. I never realized people would get so pissy over my opinion.

Maybe if you read everything and didn't have selective reading you wouldn't get offended

why are people still saying you cant move as fast with scroll as you can with space?

the fact is: you move faster with scroll. end of story

EDIT: I move faster than YOU with scroll. end of story

Fair enough, I just couldn't get used to it when I tried it. I could probably use it when playing a match with demo recording and comms running, my overbounce timing goes to crap then.

Jettex wrote:EDIT: I move faster than YOU with scroll. end of story

You dont move faster than me, and i dont scroll.

Im just leet that way.

Ko-Tao wrote:

Jettex wrote:EDIT: I move faster than YOU with scroll. end of story

You dont move faster than me, and i dont scroll.

Im just leet that way.

You and Seagull are both incredibly fast...but with a different "style" I don't understand it...and I've never seen anyone move like you Ko. How do you get so leet?

What is overbounce?

keefy wrote:What is overbounce?

Overbounce used to be a term for falling from x height, hitting the ground, then bouncing right back up to that same height again, there are up/ and forward types of overbounce (depending on what you're playing, could be 360 degrees), however it's meaning (like all used words) has been changed over the years, in Hl2dm overbouncing is getting that jump you want in as quickly as possible when you hit the ground (it would appear as if you didn't even touch (or feel) the ground, rather right above it).

Basically: The more a skipping rock touches the water, the faster it will slow down, and the less it touches the water, the further it will go, in more duration. And since you're commanding the rock, you're gonna wanna duck all the time, and jump accordingly. One thing that helps getting more jumps in is keeping an eye on the horizontal plane of the map, in relation to your own position in the air.

I actually tried the scroll for jump, since I was talking to a bunch of people and I had noticed just how easy is for Neolinkster to jump. I tried it and if my fingers were just a little longer I can see how this would work, but they are not so I am sticking to my new config jump mouse 4, crouch mouse 5.

Switching from LEFT HAND (trackball mouse) to RIGHT hand (razer mouse) has taken me about 5 weeks to get comfortable, and about 30 different configs were tested. I am now trying to get my skills back up, now that my brain is semi trained, the road from here should be much easier. The ENTIRE reason for me switching was so I could JUMP, even basic jumps escaped me. I am now jumping little jumps that use to torture me with great ease. My config is pretty basic at the end but is has been modified to fit my hands, which are smaller than average. Do whats best for your size and style of movement and as long as its legit, you don't have to explain yourself.

POMP

MF'erPOMP wrote:I actually tried the scroll for jump, since I was talking to a bunch of people and I had noticed just how easy is for Neolinkster to jump. I tried it and if my fingers were just a little longer I can see how this would work, but they are not so I am sticking to my new config jump mouse 4, crouch mouse 5.

Switching from LEFT HAND (trackball mouse) to RIGHT hand (razer mouse) has taken me about 5 weeks to get comfortable, and about 30 different configs were tested. I am now trying to get my skills back up, now that my brain is semi trained, the road from here should be much easier. The ENTIRE reason for me switching was so I could JUMP, even basic jumps escaped me. I am now jumping little jumps that use to torture me with great ease. My config is pretty basic at the end but is has been modified to fit my hands, which are smaller than average. Do whats best for your size and style of movement and as long as its legit, you don't have to explain yourself.

POMP

mouse4 jump and mouse5 crouch. aren't those both mouse thumb buttons?

half-past wrote:

MF'erPOMP wrote:I actually tried the scroll for jump, since I was talking to a bunch of people and I had noticed just how easy is for Neolinkster to jump. I tried it and if my fingers were just a little longer I can see how this would work, but they are not so I am sticking to my new config jump mouse 4, crouch mouse 5.

Switching from LEFT HAND (trackball mouse) to RIGHT hand (razer mouse) has taken me about 5 weeks to get comfortable, and about 30 different configs were tested. I am now trying to get my skills back up, now that my brain is semi trained, the road from here should be much easier. The ENTIRE reason for me switching was so I could JUMP, even basic jumps escaped me. I am now jumping little jumps that use to torture me with great ease. My config is pretty basic at the end but is has been modified to fit my hands, which are smaller than average. Do whats best for your size and style of movement and as long as its legit, you don't have to explain yourself.

POMP

mouse4 jump and mouse5 crouch. aren't those both mouse thumb buttons?

I can see that working, actually. You keep pressing mouse 5 constantly and the other part of your thumb is automatically resting on mouse 4 sou you can hit it as much as you'd like without any sort of discomfort.

keefy wrote:What is overbounce?

Bunnyhopping in my mind consists of three things, strafe jump, overbounce and air control. Overbounce is the hop you do on first landing and thereafter until you strafe jump again.

I have heard people say that is the incorrect use of the term...but to them I say pfff. Jargon is context specific and is defined by common usage. In the context of HL2DM, this is what overbounce means.

half-past wrote:
mouse4 jump and mouse5 crouch. aren't those both mouse thumb buttons?

Yes, and it has been incredibly comfortable for me.. just fall naturally into it and yes i can move my thumb in both directions to achieve,
crouch + Jump, jump+crouch as well as basically pressing them together.

POMP

Well I am trying scroll for jump. So far I can see that it could really improve my bhoping if I can get the hang of it. :roll:

Ahh, scrolling, not scrolling... i would like to hit something with the mag and work that supershotty thing!

Sometimes i spam the spacebar and it works.
You should do what works for you.
I will never chase down Seagull or (?) from behind anyways.

Coke. wrote: I'll say one thing though, there's nothing better in life then putting some fans around you at 3AM, putting on some music, loading up your own server, setting a few variables, cracking some knuckles, cracking some neck, cracking some back, and hopping in a map of your choice, oohhh the wind in my hair in a constant dashing and dodging around objects, the best part is the steady motion of it, and added speed around corners, I can't explain the feeeelliingggg, I am glad I am alive to do it.

Are you my lost brother i never knew i had? lol

Ugh, don't bump old threads to add nonsense please.

Adding to the nonsense right now!