Fuck gas

provost

2008-07-03 00:25:06

http://alternativemedicinebloghelp.blogspot.com/

damn right dudes and dudesses.

My friend tried the HHo convertion on his old Honda civic and O_o.

works like a charm, i'm amazed. check it out.

*This may or may not void the warranty on the vehicle or may increase chance of being sued and losing after a car accident if you drive a converted car. (in canada)

0nti

2008-07-03 00:47:57

Interesting info conflict !

Keeper

2008-07-03 00:49:27

Brown's gas burns hotter. You gotta be careful with that.

Otherwise, there are lots of options to push you above the 100mpg mark.

Most of the ideas have been purchased by detroit and lost forever

sava

2008-07-03 00:59:43

wow !

nice news !!!

Attachments

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Paradox

2008-07-03 02:27:07

Ummm yeah something weird about that link.....

Was curious to see how that was done so I clicked that link. It went to a website about the conversion, then when I went to get out of that it went to a dating service website.....

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2008-07-03 04:22:05

Paradox wrote:Ummm yeah something weird about that link.....

Was curious to see how that was done so I clicked that link. It went to a website about the conversion, then when I went to get out of that it went to a dating service website.....

Did you hook up?

G

2008-07-03 04:38:13

lol. i opened this thread thinking gas_mask

L2k

2008-07-03 04:46:41

Keeper wrote:Brown's gas burns hotter. You gotta be careful with that.

Otherwise, there are lots of options to push you above the 100mpg mark.

Most of the ideas have been purchased by detroit and lost forever

This is the most infuriating fact I can think of, our country's are ruled by greed and that is starting to catch up with us.

The fact that there have been alternative solutions to power our vehicles for over 20 years, is absurd when you see what we are facing today. Our oil reliance is nothing more than a suppression of new technologies fueled by greed. If you ever want to get good and pissed off when you are paying 4-5.00 a gallon for gas, watch a movie called "who killed the electric car" it can be found on HBO or google.

The sad thing is that most people do not even know that the technology exists for which we could be powering our vehicles with battery packs. Battery packs which can power electric motors that can propel cars much faster than gasoline in 0-60 mph tests. Battery packs which can go over 300 miles on a single charge, battery packs which power motors that are 10 times lighter than a gasoline engine. This technology has been around for 20 years but it has been suppressed and kept quiet as much as the greedy politician and union leader can possibly keep it.

There would be major consequences no doubt if this technology would be put to use. Many jobs would be lost in the automotive industry, most gas stations would go out of business eventually as well as most auto repair shops. The greedy politicians would not be receiving millions of dollars from lobbyists and unions to keep us paying them hundreds of dollars a week just to drive our vehicles to work so we can make money for which they can tax.

Some times when you think about it, we do not live in a free country at all and that pisses me off.

Paradox

2008-07-03 05:04:55

Ghost Dog_TSGK wrote:
Paradox wrote:Ummm yeah something weird about that link.....

Was curious to see how that was done so I clicked that link. It went to a website about the conversion, then when I went to get out of that it went to a dating service website.....
Did you hook up?

Dont need to...this fish is already hooked, and in the boat.

Coke.

2008-07-03 05:06:22

Paradox wrote:Dont need to...this fish is already hooked, and in the boat.

And naturally choking and struggling to get back into the water

Paradox

2008-07-03 05:07:58

Coke. wrote:
Paradox wrote:Dont need to...this fish is already hooked, and in the boat.
And naturally choking and struggling to get back into the water

Na Im a shark.....Ill just bite.....nvm.

s0iz

2008-07-03 05:32:55

Great news! That guy is a completely genius.

Uncle Rico

2008-07-03 05:34:42

L2k wrote:we do not live in a free country at all and that pisses me off.

Very true.

Fearsome*

2008-07-03 08:54:36

There is no magic solution and no detroit didnt buy shit if they did don't you think they would be pulling it out by now to save their asses as the japs take over their own country? For better then 2 decades or maybe more before i was old enough to know people have been crying conspiracy and talking about magical physics defying cars that the illuminatti is hiding from us? If it existed some young guy would be making conversion kits and everyone would be buying them and he would be making millions. My uncle drove those magical electric vehicles and they arent all that great. OPEC increases production to stop new technologies from becoming cost feasible and they would do it now if they could but the world is literally out running them in its thirst for oil they simply cannot keep up. Think about what you are saying if such a battery existed then 20 years past the patent would be long gone and for fucks sakes surely someone would have decided to use it. And even if they did not for cars what about small power equipment? Mowers, weed whips, blowers, laptops? have you ever used any of that? If so then surely you know none of the electric stuff can hang with gas powered. If there was some great all amazing battery trust me at least one of these hundreds of companies would have used it to break out and take the lead over their competitors. And here is the most rediculous claim that is that every message board I go to has several people talking about this conspiracy and every social gathering the same and you are going to tell me all these millions of people who KNOW about the conspiracy exist and not 1 of them can unravel it?

The illuminatti does not run the show or the free masons or skulls or even opec any more, economics and physics do.

0nti

2008-07-03 09:16:47

lol. i opened this thread thinking gas_mask

qft ! D;

SND

2008-07-03 10:47:47

well suppression of new existing products is not uncommon typicaly the more people are relent on a specif technology or industry the harder it is to replace it or phase with something else. Now im studying to design and i know well that electric motors aren't so effective especially in the past and the question is u still need to get that electric energy from somewhere. Now the true technology that lies in water that's where it is at and it works. Thing is companies or governments are afraid to put such technology forward conspiracy well i don't really care when there is jobs or money on the line its a safe bet that anything that threatens that will be stopped or slowed down. In this case slowed down easing the tech in which in a business sense is a good way to approach it because u lessen the risk and increase it chance to be acpected and others to adapt tho it seems such tech should be introduce allot faster with how gas prices have increased.

One thing that does worry me is how car engines that are put in cars made by us companies and why the government have not put restrictions on the efficiency of them. I believe in Europe he have strong requirements that a car needs to comply to to be fit to use. I may be wrong on this u guys probably know more from your end. But if that was true imagine how much gas would saved and it would lower demand thos lowering the price.

keefy

2008-07-03 13:13:49

Gas/petrol diesel is till needed for the HHO conversion it doesnt replace it, it help increase the efficiency thats all which I am still sceptical about.

Coke.

2008-07-03 13:32:06

I think most of the problem is our life style in general.. We tend to confuse wants and needs way too often, even the wealthy wants more luxury, these creatures have chosen greed over progression.

This includes shopping malls, sports, and hl2dm.

SND

2008-07-03 19:23:31

this topic reminds me of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PzAm1WK ... re=related

L2k

2008-07-03 20:51:21

Coke. wrote:even the wealthy wants more luxury, these creatures have chosen greed over progression

BINGO!
The people that are in a position to allow that progression to happen are going to milk their current money maker for every cent they can for as long as they can. Once people can no longer afford to buy gas, and can no longer drive and or buy gas powered cars, only then will we see these new technologies emerge.

Keeper

2008-07-03 21:08:25

Albeit too late.

Unfortunately gas prices affect so many other prices. Too much could happen between where we are now and what could come to pass.

Anonymous

2008-07-03 21:52:15

The truth is new technologies to replace the combustion engine are not viable, economically feasible.
The battery thing is bullshit-then we end up with 40 miles/day worth of exploding toxic batteries.
There is some old tech (diesel) that is vialble but still not need.
The only way a company can really suppress anything is through successful court wins on their patents.
Can anyone find a court case were GM successfully defended an unused technology in court?
Nope.
And there is no LETTING any natural progressions happen/
Natural progressions just happen.
The combustion engine has fueled epic progress for mankind for over 100 years and with 100s of millions of cars out there, how do they get replaced overnight.

DRILLDRILLDRILL
And when is the new tech?
We have just started talking about it, so it isnt tomorrow.

Two solutions, one short term one long term: Increased supply and refining and tomorrows new technology.

Instead of going to Mars, we should fund rewards for fielding new tech.

Fearsome*

2008-07-04 01:02:58

SND the US does have restrictions on vehicle efficiency and every so many years they make those better. Are we the top in the world for forcing people to have the latest nope, but we have it and its increasing and all our cars and the japs sell in europe too and they all pass the muster so we are probably buying the same cars and same efficiency.

I dunno what water crap you guys are talking about, the scam running around the internet please tell me you dont believe that. The US DOE invests millions probably billions into all of this research with many of the smartest people in the world working on every different angle they can think of. In fact where I work we are partly funded by a 350 millions dollar grant to research bio fuels. Yes there are many different technologies that will work but the total energy input usually ends up being a loss rather then gain. Often there are practical reasons you cannot push it in and of course there is infrastructure as impala said you cant wake up tomorrow and make a hydrogen car that gains 1% efficiency over gas and then say oh lets rip our 100 billion dollars worth of infrastructure out and replace it with another 100 billion dollars of infrastructure to gain 1%. Then you end up harming the environment more in the total waste of the switch.

Like i said if you know such a magic solution exists please go do it and make your millions, in the mean time please stop spreading rumors and propaganda which is full of left out information or many times just completely a false hoax.

Paradox

2008-07-04 01:21:24

If you want to save gas, buy a horse.

Anonymous

2008-07-04 01:40:24

What worries me is all this talk of greed. Innovation, business, trade, investment, ownership, freedom, human rights and wealth are what runs our country (America).
Its as if wealth and luxury are a dirty thing.
Is there greed? Surely there is greed, but there was greed in the Soviet Union. There is greed in North Korea.

Some folks should know this: America produces 50% of ALL the goods and services in the entire world. Of course we use more energy.

The current fuel price rises is the direct result of one simple thing: Increased deman of tight supply of a world wide traded commodity.
The leftist fools in DC have done nothing to help the matter. They don't care the poor and middle class are hurt the most by high energy prices! They dont care. NO drilling!

Obama actually wants gas to go higher and raise taxes to do so.
Does anyone know what happens then?
Businesses lay off people. People lose their jobs AND pay higher prices.
What a shit deal some folks are selling.

Coke.

2008-07-04 01:56:03

I'm just saying, these people are complaining when they are clearly a huge part of the 'problem', wealth isn't a bad thing, but all of the senseless things that we invest in, it's as if people are unable to be happy with what they've got.

Imo it's all or nothing, the whole country has a different view on everything, not to mention the 70% that doesn't really care :\

All in all I don't think I have a say in what a group should do, but I can't understand why they are complaining about it without the will to react, probably because they can't.

Anonymous

2008-07-04 02:09:36

I invest a good bit of time in DM, which gets me nothing but some entertainment and some internet friendships.
Some would say that is is a worthless investment.
My response is Mind your own business!

SND

2008-07-04 02:12:27

65 Impala SS wrote:Some folks should know this: America produces 50% of ALL the goods and services in the entire world. Of course we use more energy.

emm i think that figure is wrong last time i checked U guys import more than u trade out.

Coke.

2008-07-04 02:17:20

Okay? Like I said it's not up to me what someone else can/should/shouldn't do, that's perfectly fine, but on a much larger scale if no one wants to pitch in some time and work for each other then they only have themselves to blame, no one is in this alone.

I'm not pointing it towards any one person here.

They'll be perfectly fine with their small amount of land and income, that's fine w/ me, but I don't understand how most people can complain about the economy.

Anonymous

2008-07-04 02:19:24

SND wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:Some folks should know this: America produces 50% of ALL the goods and services in the entire world. Of course we use more energy.
emm i think that figure is wrong last time i checked U guys import more than u trade out.

Imports are better known as goods. I said goods AND services.
If you dispute the figure, please post something.
"I think" is not good enough.

Also, goods that are produced here are also sold here and NOT exported.
So, You are talking only of the portion of goods and services that are exported. What of the same that are not?

L2k

2008-07-04 04:39:46

OK, I see some of you are just not gonna believe there are things going on which are preventing the progression of a alternative solution to auto's that require gas. That is actually part of the problem in a way because you are so sure of this you just accept whats put in front of you and do nothing in the way of helping the situation.
How could you help the situation? By talking to people and helping to educate people on what is and has been going on for years, may in some way cause things to change.

For those who are interested as I mentioned you really need to watch this movie who killed the electric car. Here is a trailer which gives some basic points on the subject http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8

Then if your up for it, and can handle seeing how F'd up our government has been in allowing this to happen go ahead and watch the whole 11 part sections of the movie on youtube. you will see it on the side bar to that trailer.
For those who think there is nothing preventing the electric car from becoming mainstream, answer me this.

Why would GM not sell the EV1's to the people who wanted them back in 1996?

Why would GM make all the people who leased them turn them back in once the lease was up?

Why would GM crush every single one of them and discontinue the project?

Fearsome, I also knew someone that had one of these cars. I rode in it, I saw how it performed.. There was nothing wrong with it! The people who had these cars loved them and most would have done anything or paid any price to keep them but they were not allowed to. If you impala or anyone can answer any of those questions above I would be quite interested in seeing your answers and the logic behind them. I'll just assume you have seen that movie about the EV1 and if not I really wish you would watch it before answering. The points made in that movie are facts not opinions, facts which can be backed up.

My main point is this the technology is there to use something different, if it was not suppressed over 20 years ago we would have alternatives today. I'm not saying that the electric car is the absolute best alternative, but it is a alternative nonetheless, one that was taken away from us, one that could be mainstream today had it been allowed to progress. But no big money got in the way, and politicians pockets were lined in a effort to keep big money coming in for a certain group of people that had the power to insure they continued to get rich at the general populations expense. That is greed in every sense of the word.

For the record I think all politicians are corrupt, and I am not for any party or group as I have never seen one that made any sense or something more than empty promises.

I do not have the answer, I do not know the solution, I just know that what has been going on for decades in our government is the problem and its not likely to change anytime soon.

keefy

2008-07-04 05:17:03

SND wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:Some folks should know this: America produces 50% of ALL the goods and services in the entire world. Of course we use more energy.

90% weapons 10% useful stuff.

Coke.

2008-07-04 21:26:02

Beautiful post L2k!

Edit: And keefy

Anonymous

2008-07-04 21:52:17

Right now, cars and be converted to run on vegetable oil. There are hybrids on the the market already. Toyota has announced a new Lithium battery car for 2010.
Biofuels is researched and developed.
The idea that there is some impeding of new tech is not even true. New tech is being researched and planned right now, so that whole thing rests on a false premise.

I would really like to know WHAT exactly is viable economically right now and is being withheld?

Hydrogen cell cars are not going to sprout up overnight.
The Gubbermint HAS mandated higher fuel economy.

And i'll answer Punks question: The current electric batteries EXPLODE!

L2k

2008-07-04 22:59:36

65 Impala SS wrote:The current electric batteries EXPLODE!

And theres documented proof of this where?
I have been following electric cars for years and have not seen one documented incident of this.

Hydrogen is a joke, its just another attempt by big oil and the automakers to keeps things going in their favor.
Hydrogen takes 3 to 4 times the amount of energy to produce, than a battery.
Hydrogen fuel cells cannot (currently) be made to hold the capacity(and still fit in the car) needed for extended range lets say of over 150 miles.
Hydrogen engines currently cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce.
Hydrogen is more or less just another thing we would have to depend on someone to provide to us and it will end up being more expensive than gas currently is.
Hydrogen would require a fueling infrastructure to be built and that would take forever.(we could all plug in our cars at home and charge them overnight)

There are so many ways that electricity can be generated naturally, its most likely going to be the alternative, however here again we have the greed trying to slow down the progression of free electricity, albeit at a slower pace than what we have seen in the auto and oil industry.

Impala, the hybrids are just a small step, one that is just barely in the right direction. When I say things were withheld, I'm talking about 20 years or more ago. That is when it was first known these problems with gas and oil were coming, thats when all things pointed towards electricity, that when it was discovered electricity was a viable and economical alternative, and thats when it was suppressed. Do you really think the automakers and oil industry is goin to cut its own throat? Hell no! and that is exactly what would have happened had it been allowed to progress. If the billions of dollars that have been wasted on looking at other fuels like hydrogen were put into batteries, we would all have one right now..
If you haven't been able to figure it out yet, the auto industry makes a very significant amount of money by selling replacement parts. Electric cars have very few moving parts compared to a combustion engine, thats why they are trying to find ways to make hybrids that still use a combustion process, and that is why they crushed every electric car and are no longer trying to find ways to make electric cars an option, if they did they would effectively be cutting there own throats.

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2008-07-04 23:47:58

keefy wrote:
SND wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:Some folks should know this: America produces 50% of ALL the goods and services in the entire world. Of course we use more energy.
90% weapons 10% useful stuff.

Wrong.

Happy Independence day.

Ko-Tao

2008-07-05 02:35:59

Vegetable oil vehicles have higher net greenhouse gas emissions/effect than regular gasoline vehicles, mainly due to their excessive nitrous output (being that N02 multiplies the heat-containing effects of C02).

Anyhow, moving to yet another combustible fuel is likely not the answer.

SND

2008-07-05 02:58:12

Ko-Tao wrote:Vegetable oil vehicles have higher net greenhouse gas emissions/effect than regular gasoline vehicles, mainly due to their excessive nitrous output (being that N02 multiplies the heat-containing effects of C02).

Anyhow, moving to yet another combustible fuel is likely not the answer.

yes plus feilds of crops that would be grown for consumption will be instead grown for cars which i belive is not a good idea imagin how much aches of land u will need if everyone started using bio fules for there cars and with food prices going up it will only make things worse i believe.

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2008-07-05 04:25:04

SND wrote:
Ko-Tao wrote:Vegetable oil vehicles have higher net greenhouse gas emissions/effect than regular gasoline vehicles, mainly due to their excessive nitrous output (being that N02 multiplies the heat-containing effects of C02).

Anyhow, moving to yet another combustible fuel is likely not the answer.
yes plus feilds of crops that would be grown for consumption will be instead grown for cars which i belive is not a good idea imagin how much aches of land u will need if everyone started using bio fules for there cars and with food prices going up it will only make things worse i believe.

That has always come to mind when considering biofuel, with the amount to be consumed, how could the crops keep up.

Gunny

2008-07-05 08:41:03

65 Impala SS wrote:Right now, cars and be converted to run on vegetable oil....
Biofuels is researched and developed.

One of the problems with biofuels is 'shelflife'
Since they're derived from organic sources, they're as suceptible to the equivalent of spoiling as regular old veggie oil
Biodiesel, for example, has a span of about 6months before bacteria growth starts becoming a problem. This can be extended using additives

Then there's ratios. A mix of diesel with a bit more regular than bio burns more efficiently than 100% bio

stretch

2008-07-05 09:30:58

L2k wrote:For those who are interested as I mentioned you really need to watch this movie who killed the electric car. Here is a trailer which gives some basic points on the subject http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8

wow that was really a great movie. i was really pissed off in the middle while they explained everything. but i just don't agree with the end. they say that everything is pointing towards the electric car right now, but i still think that all the forces of the large industries, gov., etc...is going to stop it somehow, because they desire money and control over the industry...

thx agn for sharing that...

stretch

L2k

2008-07-05 10:04:11

stretch wrote: i still think that all the forces of the large industries, gov., etc...is going to stop it somehow, because they desire money and control over the industry..

Yeah thats pretty much the point I'm trying to make, they have been stopping it for over 20 years now.

Fearsome*

2008-07-07 21:22:40

A company would get rid of cars for lots of reasons. Protect proprietory information, a safty hazard, or simply the fact that the market was not ready for the vehicle and it was not cost feasible to support a niche market on a low profit margin vehicle. The first one up there is important you do not want to be the first one to the market but be their too early and then have others buy up your cars and use them to steal all the tech that you spent more money and time developing. Also you do not want to support a car if you are GM that has a small user base unless it commands extremely high profits. In addition these small cars were probably not the best survivors of crashes and a big company like GM does not want a legacy vehicle out there creating a liability that they can get sued over. This is business as usual not a conspiracy. The electric cars had shitto range. I think not more then 150 miles. Then they had to be recharged for hours. The car was a crappy compact car in the era of SUVs booming. It made no sense to cater to a small number of people who are either willing to buy 2 cars or willing to settle for one that has very limited capacity and range when you can sell them an SUV at 20k in profit. Now we have Lithium ion batteries and those are increasing power and range. But the average family still cant use them cause who is willing to go sit at a gas station with your car plugged in for hours.

For now electric cars will remain specialty purpose vehicles such as for golf carts, sports cars, and so on. If there is enough demand the a company will spring up to do conversions first and probably soon after mass production. The fact it has not happened yet is proof that there was no conspiracy. Nothing in the EVO car was a total break through that allowed you to go 500 miles on a charge that is why it failed not because of greedy power hungry CEOs or government officials in a conspiracy. The only greedy power hungry people who made this happen are you and me the people who drive SUVs and want the instant satisfaction of driving 500 miles on a tank of gas and then filling it up in 3 minutes and going another 500 miles. Electric cars are still harnessed by the battery.

Also their are thousands of smart people in the world working on these sorts of issues and the US cannot control them all. If such a vehicle was possible and if such a conspiracy did happen they would still not be able to control all of the other countries and stop them from making such vehicles happen. When you read up read all and think about all don't just listen to the propaganda machines. Everyone wants to believe their is a conspiracy cause its more fun and makes you feel better about yourself. It makes you feel like you are good cause your problems are out of your control. And not understanding why a company might do something like crush them all is just more ignorant Americans who sit around with you tube being back seat drivers telling people who command multi billion dollar corporations that you know more then they do right? That's the part that gets me the most. A bunch of kids on the internet always seem to think they got it all figured out. And a board room full of millions of dollars and tons of consultants from engineers to chemist to finance phds just has no clue what it is doing. GM poured a billions dollars into the electric car, if they could have made it profitable they would have. And the government pushed them to do it. If these guys wanted money they could have just saved the money and invested in the stock and made the price go up as GM was a billion richer.

ninojman

2008-07-07 21:55:21

ya, are you guys serious? we have a open market. If it was really better someone would make it and get all the money for it.

"they have been stopping it for over 20 years now." that is retarded look at the cell phone's we had 20 years ago, Battery tech is moving but it is slow. recharging times are getting better, and more power is being stored on smaller batteries, different techs are being applied. I don't see how they could possible shut down any tech.

thats like saying big horse stopped the steam engine cars

ya and like fear said, those youtube videos are just propaganda making up shit basically. electric cars are cleaner....is a farce cuz you still have to make the electricity

Paradox

2008-07-07 22:08:09

The 70 to 80 mile range (according to the video) on one charge is a huge problem. I would take me 3 days to drive to my Moms house in Maine when I can do it on about one tank of gas and 7 hours in my SUV (yes I own one but only because I have to tow a boat around).

The American people are showing the companies and the US government right now that they do know something. They are getting rid of those SUVs and the gas guzzling American cars and buying Honda and Toyota Hybrids. The last quarter results show that all of the American Car manufacturers sales are down between 10 and 30 percent. Honda is up around 20%. Americans are also cutting costs whereever they can. Lots of industries are being effected. The boating and fishing industry here on Long Island is being effected. No one is buying new boats, many are trying to sell theirs and those that have them arent using them either at all or far less than they used to. Even people that dont own boats are not spending the money to go out on charter boats. People are also not buying what would be considered "luxury" foods. Many seafood dealers have reported a reduction in sales and demand for seafood, when in the summer it usually goes up. People are buying chicken and beef instead because its cheaper.

Maybe a pure electric car is not feasible at the moment, but American companies were stupid not to invest in some kind of alternative sooner. Now they are behind the proverbial 8 ball. Ford has had to partner (pay) with Toyota to get the technology to make efficient hybrids now instead of trying to figure it out. They have a couple, but they still do not get the mileage that the Honda and Toyotas do. Honda and Toyota put alot of their profits into reseach and development to make fuel efficient cars profitable and they are now reaping the benefits of that. There is a 6 -8 month waiting list at the car dealers for hybrids.

Meanwhile we have a president that has chosen not to invest in alternative energy and is completely out of touch with the American people and the state of this country. And yes, we the American people are partly to blame because we put him in office.

Zman42

2008-07-07 23:21:46

Paradox wrote: And yes, we the American people are partly to blame because we put him in office.

only the second time, first time i think we actually elected Gore.

L2k

2008-07-08 00:14:52

I never said there was a conspiracy or that the illuminatti, or masons or skulls had anything to do with our current situation, those are your words fearsome.

I said greed by politicians, unions and corporations has put us in the boat we are in today, and that statement is spot on.

Of course the general concept of a corporation is to make profits, however there is going to come a time in our society where they have to get past making billions and settle for a reasonable amount so things can progress. The reason I say things have been suppressed is because every time a technology has been introduced or discovered that could have made electric cars a feasible option for most people, it was either destroyed as in the case of the EV1 by GM or it was purchased by GM or some other auto maker never to see the light of day ( I can provide you examples). This mentality is now catching up to them and they are paying dearly for it as the SUV becomes extinct and they have thousands of them sitting around they cant sell.

In response to your idea of why they didn't continue the EV1 was because they had only a range of 150 miles, do you realize that 90% of people on only drive 10-60 miles a day? With that in mind there could have been hundreds of thousands of EV1's on the road over the last 20 years working just fine for people who are in that category. The result of that alone would have been enough to seriously cut back on pollution, significantly reduce the amount of oil the US is using and that would have ended up being a major factor in oil pricing today for the people who still needed to use a gas powered vehicle to travel extended ranges or carry super heavy loads.

The fact is that GM did not want the car to succeed at that time, they were forced to make something to comply with regulations in order to sell cars in California but those very regulations were ultimately shot down and repealed by politicians and members of a un-elected position (C.A.R.B.). If you think for one second those people weren't paid off by lobbyist's or didn't accept money to further there political careers you don't know much about politics. This is why GM did not try to market the car, instead all they did was create a bunch of smoke and mirrors and use negative marketing tactics when they did talk about it.

I guess being from Michigan means you probably have some ties to the auto industry some where down the line, and explains why you refuse to see whats clearly in front of you, either that or you fall into the category of millions of other Americans who simply trust that BIG America is doing the very best it can for it's people regardless of money. I on the other hand question everything and look deeper to see whats really going on, and it all comes down to money and to protecting your cash cow at any expense.

ninojman

2008-07-08 02:27:06

L2k wrote:I guess being from Michigan means you probably have some ties to the auto industry some where down the line, and explains why you refuse to see whats clearly in front of you, either that or you fall into the category of millions of other Americans who simply trust that BIG America is doing the very best it can for it's people regardless of money. I on the other hand question everything and look deeper to see whats really going on, and it all comes down to money and to protecting your cash cow at any expense.

haha so fearsome is part of it too?

and it's amazing how GM can control the entire world like that if that is true they could have just like off'd you years ago. You aren't diggin deep at all your just listening to what you have been feed and repeating. Open market, and not just that but the entire world can't be stopped from this magical tech you speak of. If there was a magical tech being repressed you can bet that some scientist would break out to some other country or just and it would make it somewhere. Greed would make it public not hold it in.

Anonymous

2008-07-08 02:29:33

There are some folks who have electric golf carts to fart around their areas with. Electric cars do not go very far with current technology. You certainly cannot move a semi of freight on electric batteries.
And i wasn't talking about biofuels but plain old diesel conversions. They can run on oils from McDonalds fry vats.
They are also compression engines and make a mess behind them. And there is not enough land on the planet for this to be the solution. Let eat food instead of of put it in our cars.
Even hybrids leave behind toxic batteries and only give some extra efficiencies.

My point being is that we already have a lot of technology, that hasn't been suppressed that doesn't solve anything.

New mind blowing technology is the answer and that is hard to see when we are subsidizing corn and biofuels, harping about batteries, and the like.

Technology that advances way beyond the current and increased domestic supply are the only long and short term solutions i see that are worthwhile, across the board.

In the meantime, some electric, biofuel, hybrid... may help, but they arent solutions.

L2k

2008-07-08 03:41:27

L2k wrote:
This is the most infuriating fact I can think of, our country's are ruled by greed and that is starting to catch up with us.

The fact that there have been alternative solutions to power our vehicles for over 20 years, is absurd when you see what we are facing today. Our oil reliance is nothing more than a suppression of new technologies fueled by greed. If you ever want to get good and pissed off when you are paying 4-5.00 a gallon for gas, watch a movie called "who killed the electric car" it can be found on HBO or google.

The sad thing is that most people do not even know that the technology exists for which we could be powering our vehicles with battery packs. Battery packs which can power electric motors that can propel cars much faster than gasoline in 0-60 mph tests. Battery packs which can go over 300 miles on a single charge, battery packs which power motors that are 10 times lighter than a gasoline engine. This technology has been around for 20 years but it has been suppressed and kept quiet as much as the greedy politician and union leader can possibly keep it.

There would be major consequences no doubt if this technology would be put to use. Many jobs would be lost in the automotive industry, most gas stations would go out of business eventually as well as most auto repair shops. The greedy politicians would not be receiving millions of dollars from lobbyists and unions to keep us paying them hundreds of dollars a week just to drive our vehicles to work so we can make money for which they can tax.

Some times when you think about it, we do not live in a free country at all and that pisses me off.

Nino I just love the way you jump into this and start adding shit that no one said. That is what the quote button is for so you can accurately quote people. FYI I used it so you can see what I actually said. I'm talking about battery packs not some magical thing here. For your info they do exist and they could be used, but they are not. It is not totally Gm's fault. Gm is just really the company that showed it could be done then did away with it. I also never said electric cars are the complete solution to the whole worlds problems, I just said they could be in use today and work just fine for a large percentage of people, which in turn would be helping our situation out today. On another note Nino you have no clue where I come from, what my background is, or what kind of research I have done on the subject. Just so you know though I have been involved in the auto industry since birth as a 3rd generation. I spent 3 years studying it in college, have designed and hand built off road race cars as well as been fascinated with electric and solar powered vehicles for years.
I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about, the reference to the video on youtube is just a way that the general population who usually does not give a rats ass, could get a little insight to what has happened in the past.

In response to your notion that some scientist could just break out and do this on his own, its not that easy. It takes money, lots of money and yes people are working on it and have prototypes and working vehicles right now. My point is and I've said it many times now, if this technology wasn't suppressed 20 years ago a large percentage of people would be driving them today, maybe not exclusively but to some extent. To anyone who thinks it is not true, or that money and politics hasn't played a big role in where we are today with the prices if oil being what they are, you can go on living in your little fantasy world and just keep thinking things are a-ok.

Anonymous

2008-07-08 04:48:21

L2K: Your argument that the greed of politicians and business somehow hinders wonderful new technology from widespread adoption is completely unconvincing to me.

The tech that everyone speaks of is old news. It never was feasible of economical. Nothing is replacing the gas and diesel combustion engine now or even in the near future. Nothing replacing Coal as our prime electricity source.

The problem is we are now just starting to pay attention to the problem.
Real technology breakthrough are never suppressed. It doesn't make sense.
If GM had something, they would have run with it.

One question: What does the supply of Lithium for batteries look like?
Is there 100 years of cheap lithium just waiting to pumped out?

Constipator

2008-07-08 04:52:12

Well there's also the point that scientists have already made that our electricity infrastructure (our power grid) is not made to support 10's of millions of americans going home and plugging in their fucking car every single night of the week. Do you realize how much electricity that is? It would be very expensive to upgrade the whole grid.

And also how do you get the electricity to power that electric car? About half of all electricity in this country is generated from burning coal (pollution factor) which heats water and turns it into steam which turns a turbine to generate electricity. So if we rely a lot more heavily on electric power instead of combustion power, then coal supply might be a problem, although one pro would be that we've got a shit ton of coal here instead of having to import oil from the middle east.

Almost none of us are educated in these fields very well at all so we can't imagine the amount of factors that come into play when you talk about changing the resource or technology we rely on for energy/transportation/whatever.

There is no simple solution to this problem (greedy politicians & other people buttraping the ev1's chance at glory 20 years ago or not) so this argument is completely pointless.

bahlk

2008-07-08 05:31:34

godamn hippies

badinfluence

2008-07-08 07:18:05

You guys are all fucking dumb. What we need to invent is wings so we can all fly everywhere.

Uhm, duh? Obvious solution.

stretch

2008-07-09 01:55:42

Constipator wrote:Well there's also the point that scientists have already made that our electricity infrastructure (our power grid) is not made to support 10's of millions of americans going home and plugging in their fucking car every single night of the week. Do you realize how much electricity that is? It would be very expensive to upgrade the whole grid.

im not just singling out you, but someone else, who did not watch the movie apparently (if you did sry...i apoligize), but from what you guys are saying is clearly stated in the movie and it can defend against it. electricity is not that hard to get, you just have to spend a little money to get it, wind fields etc, i also remember (i think) from the movie that if they burned coal to power an electric car it would still put out less pollution than a regular car would. and you are right im not an electrician or anything so i may not know, but it sounds correct to me. this movie is not just some youtubers point of view. theres a website and it looks like you may be able to purchase this movie from somewhere just look.

L2k wrote:In response to your idea of why they didn't continue the EV1 was because they had only a range of 150 miles, do you realize that 90% of people on only drive 10-60 miles a day? With that in mind there could have been hundreds of thousands of EV1's on the road over the last 20 years working just fine for people who are in that category. The result of that alone would have been enough to seriously cut back on pollution, significantly reduce the amount of oil the US is using and that would have ended up being a major factor in oil pricing today for the people who still needed to use a gas powered vehicle to travel extended ranges or carry super heavy loads.

exactly, unless you have job which requires you to drive 1000's of miles each day then it may not be the car for you. everyone i know has two cars atleast so you could still have your gas guzzler and an electric car. also in the movie it states that they did have the batteries that could make it go 300 miles or more. YES, it may have cost some money to get it, but it still was possible. i have also recently seen in the papers that Obama(i dont support or the other), was wanting to offer a large sum of money for whoevers comes up with a longer lasting less pollutent battery.

just watch the movie, if you don't agree thats your probelm.

L2k wrote:either that or you fall into the category of millions of other Americans who simply trust that BIG America is doing the very best it can for it's people regardless of money. I on the other hand question everything and look deeper to see whats really going on, and it all comes down to money and to protecting your cash cow at any expense.

america is flawed in many areas, i agree

stretch

Fearsome*

2008-07-09 09:00:52

haha yes I am paid off with an army of other members of the michigan militia by GM to roam the internet searching for the ones trying to expose the truth about electric cars and helping the man keep them down.

If you know so much about electric cars l2k then you should know that what we are saying is all true. You on the other hand seem to be taking a communist view that you know whats best for Americans and an electric car with limited range is good enough for them. While you seem to think that that passes because of some statistic you forget that its a free market and it was not GM or corperate greed that killed the electric car, it was in fact you and me who would not settle for it. It is in fact greed but the greed comes from Americans them self who ultimately . And right now it is once again about greed you see the only thing that could get Americans vastly interested in electric cars is you guessed it good old hard cash now that gas is up and the scare of higher prices exist they the normal Americans are finally interested to sacrifice the convenience of gas for something else.

Also about money, yes it cost money to develop such a car but believe me if your shit is good people will line up, or even if can just convince them it is good. That nut case who spread the H2O powered car bullshit, he actually got investment money and was later sued about it. And there have always been plenty of people who are "greedy" who are willing to drop a millions at the idea of a new start up taking off.

Our point is simply that GREED runs the show it runs it for you too, and everyone, who doesnt want money? But the real fact of the matter is that the power of everything ultimately lies with the consumer cause they choose what to buy and what not to. You can choose to ride a bike, a car, a golf cart whatever. And so in the end the fault is your own. The mainly what I see here is people who are willing to except their own responsibility in the equation and those that are not. And I do mean it is an equation everyone is pulling one way or the other you just happen to be convinced that the company is the one with the most power so much so that they can control you, and the government. I on the other hand think the consumer is the one with the most power.

Anonymous

2008-07-09 10:34:27

It was McCain who is calling for an award for improved batteries, not Obamessiah.

stretch

2008-07-09 10:36:23

thats right i remem now, sry for the mistake...

stretch

Briggs

2008-07-09 11:22:10

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L2k

2008-07-09 20:45:56

>Fearsome*haha yes I am paid off with an army of other members of the michigan militia by GM to roam the internet searching for the ones trying to expose the truth about electric cars and helping the man keep them down.

I knew it !

>Fearsome*If you know so much about electric cars l2k then you should know that what we are saying is all true. You on the other hand seem to be taking a communist view that you know whats best for Americans and an electric car with limited range is good enough for them. While you seem to think that that passes because of some statistic you forget that its a free market and it was not GM or corperate greed that killed the electric car, it was in fact you and me who would not settle for it. It is in fact greed but the greed comes from Americans them self who ultimately . And right now it is once again about greed you see the only thing that could get Americans vastly interested in electric cars is you guessed it good old hard cash now that gas is up and the scare of higher prices exist they the normal Americans are finally interested to sacrifice the convenience of gas for something else.

1. We never got the chance to settle for it.
2. I never said it was good for all Americans, just a large percentage.
3. People could have still kept their gas powered cars as well.
4. I personally would have bought a EV1 if I was given the chance, I was pissed at the price of gas back then.

>Fearsome Also about money, yes it cost money to develop such a car but believe me if your shit is good people will line up, or even if can just convince them it is good. That nut case who spread the H2O powered car bullshit, he actually got investment money and was later sued about it. And there have always been plenty of people who are "greedy" who are willing to drop a millions at the idea of a new start up taking off.

This is another big problem in the USA, every one is sue happy. You get someone trying to do something and he's either hitting roadblocks with government red tape or getting sued by other companies for infringing on some patent. Not saying the H20 guy was legit, but this type of thing happens all the time and you gotta spend tons of money to defend yourself even if your not guilty.

>Fearsome*Our point is simply that GREED runs the show it runs it for you too, and everyone, who doesnt want money? But the real fact of the matter is that the power of everything ultimately lies with the consumer cause they choose what to buy and what not to. You can choose to ride a bike, a car, a golf cart whatever. And so in the end the fault is your own. The mainly what I see here is people who are willing to except their own responsibility in the equation and those that are not. And I do mean it is an equation everyone is pulling one way or the other you just happen to be convinced that the company is the one with the most power so much so that they can control you, and the government. I on the other hand think the consumer is the one with the most power.

Yeah everyone wants money, and the consumer does have some pull in the equation, but again the consumer has to be given the choices. The average consumer isn't going to be able to do anything to make those choices appear for them. Some one like GM has to put it out there first. The fact that there was 4000 people on a waiting list to buy A EV1, protests by current EV1 owners, showed consumer demand for the product but Gm knew it would be bad for there business and that is why they did not allow it to happen, no other reason. So here we are 20 years later and we still have no option from any of the big Automakers.

ninojman

2008-07-09 21:35:20

so GM is the only company that can make cars in the world? I still fail to see how GM controls the entire world.

gonna get a Tesla?

CellarDweller

2008-07-09 21:37:47

L2k wrote:The fact that there was 4000 people on a waiting list to buy A EV1, protests by current EV1 owners, showed consumer demand for the product but Gm knew it would be bad for there business and that is why they did not allow it to happen, no other reason. So here we are 20 years later and we still have no option from any of the big Automakers.

it may be a fact that 4000 people were on a waiting list. but i disagree with your conclusion from that fact. looking at the market, i'd say a demand of 4000 cars is mighty low and would be deemed unprofitable. demand in the 10's of thousands may have been another story. but, thats not to say that if 4000 vehicles had been produced, clever marketing may had been able to increase more demand.

Anonymous

2008-07-09 22:09:38

badinfluence wrote:You guys are all fucking dumb. What we need to invent is wings so we can all fly everywhere.

Uhm, duh? Obvious solution.

Dumb?!?! Ever heard of the Wright Brothers?
Airplanes?
Hang Gliders?

lol your dumb.

DEFme

2008-07-09 22:16:35

65 Impala SS wrote:
badinfluence wrote:You guys are all fucking dumb. What we need to invent is wings so we can all fly everywhere.

lol, thats stupid. even if you were just kidding.
have fun constructing your wings and flying to hockey practice, dumbass.

Anonymous

2008-07-09 23:29:17

My final comment on this is I LOVE MY NEW CAR! Yeah gas is high, but i plug the IPod and GO! It gets me to work. It takes me to the grocery store and movie theater and down to NC to visit.
Its awesome. Its the greatest invention ever.

Thank You Exxon for refining that gas! Enjoy your 10% profit margin.
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!

SND

2008-07-09 23:45:43

well yes a free market is great. But if u think of it trying to come up with another method of transportation or new design and making it successful it damn right hard. Because there is big number of multinational companies that have a room full of men that i likely to have patented what ever u created and so they got good control over it. Plus the money involved to develop it to the stage of been shown to a investor is huge.

companies tend not to make new products and send them to market right away they usually try and milk the exiting products dry first before they bring in the new stuff. electric car the ev1 from what i seen is was a batch produced car there was they has no intention to mass produce it from what i seen. A 4000 waiting list was a limited produced car is pretty good and there marketing is not what i would call grabbing the markets attention. It would of worked most people own two cars having electric and a normal car would be a nice balance and if u caught on the distance they traveled would of increased to because of competition. But companies follow trends and don't like to be the one leading it because of the risk involved if tho it might end up be very profitable. But with gas prices going up is likely to force the industry to bring something new because users will start to demand it.

But don't be surprised if there is some under the table dealing well known that money and power bring theses things and anyone will go out of there was to make sure there getting easy truck loads of cash in there pocket. There is allot that we don't know and most of it is under lock and key so don't think for a moment that u will know it all. I for one know i don't.

L2k

2008-07-10 01:18:39

65 Impala SS wrote:Thank You Exxon for refining that gas! Enjoy your 10% profit margin

lol yeah on 40.6 billion in revenue last year
If Exxon Mobil were a country, its 2007 profit would exceed the gross domestic product of nearly two thirds of the 183 nations in the World Bank's economic rankings. It would be right in there behind the likes of Angola and Qatar—two oil-producing nations, incidentally, where Exxon has major operations.

L2k

2008-07-10 01:32:39

>ninojman so GM is the only company that can make cars in the world? I still fail to see how GM controls the entire world

I don't think anyone ever said Gm controlled the entire world or that they were the only car maker. What was said was they tried to suppress the electric car technology 20 years ago, when they were forced to make one, then successfully fought those regulations in court and won, there is plenty of proof they did so there is no point in arguing otherwise.

>ninojman gonna get a Tesla?

Yeah I'd love to once they become readily available and the price gets in reason, 100,000. is a bit much at the moment.

Anonymous

2008-07-10 03:30:39

L2K: Check your facts please. Exxon's largest profit MARGIN is 11% in one quarter.

Realize that profits are generally gross revenue minus all the costs of doing business.
Profit is what is left.
Manufacturing averages 7 to 8% profit.
Supermarkets average 3 to 4 %

The gas business dwarfs all in total gross revenue.
Exxon does up to 600 BILLION dollars in gross revenue in their best years.

They perform an awesomely important business, one tied to national economy and security.

They do not make an exorbitant profit on their investments and if not for them, you wouldn't get to work to buy the PC to to afford the electricity to power the PC to play the game to be interested in its forums and be posting here.

L2k

2008-07-10 05:01:39

65 Impala SS wrote:L2K: Check your facts please. Exxon's largest profit MARGIN is 11% in one quarter.

Realize that profits are generally gross revenue minus all the costs of doing business.
Profit is what is left.
Manufacturing averages 7 to 8% profit.
Supermarkets average 3 to 4 %

The gas business dwarfs all in total gross revenue.
Exxon does up to 600 BILLION dollars in gross revenue in their best years.

They perform an awesomely important business, one tied to national economy and security.

They do not make an exorbitant profit on their investments and if not for them, you wouldn't get to work to buy the PC to to afford the electricity to power the PC to play the game to be interested in its forums and be posting here.

Ok checked, here ya go
http://www.usnews.com/articles/business ... dfall.html

badinfluence

2008-07-10 06:40:38

65 Impala SS wrote:
badinfluence wrote:You guys are all fucking dumb. What we need to invent is wings so we can all fly everywhere.

Uhm, duh? Obvious solution.
Dumb?!?! Ever heard of the Wright Brothers?
Airplanes?
Hang Gliders?

lol your dumb.

Yes, I have heard of the wright brothers considering I live in dayton. I was joking around. I guess you guys missed that.

BTW def, our rink is about 3 miles away. I could walk if I wanted.

Yes it was stupid. That was the point.

Anonymous

2008-07-10 10:40:58

Figures i saw from numerous sources on Exxon pegged 64 billion on 600 billion in Revenue last years. These profits included equity/stocks, which outperform all other sectors.
All other margins also include equity.

My point is that oil profits are not out of wack compared to other sectors, considering the importance and size and total performance.

That nis what i keep hearing, which i think is bogus: that they are greedy and folks looks at the profits without looking at their capital investments and costs.

old time no.7

2008-07-10 18:03:44

All your missles are photochops to us.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0 ... ex.html?hp

L2k

2008-07-31 23:21:36

even though the price of crude oil is up over 100+ barrel, it amazing that exxon mobil can continue to reap record setting profits at a time when overall use and demand is down from what it was last year.

Were getting fucking gouged big time by a US corporation and not so much by middle east providers as some would like you to believe.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080731/ap_ ... xxon_mobil

badinfluence

2008-07-31 23:41:01

65 Impala SS wrote:
badinfluence wrote:You guys are all fucking dumb. What we need to invent is wings so we can all fly everywhere.

Uhm, duh? Obvious solution.
Dumb?!?! Ever heard of the Wright Brothers?
Airplanes?
Hang Gliders?

lol your dumb.

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ninojman

2008-08-01 01:11:36

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market

United Airlines' UAL Corp. reported first-quarter profits of $22.9 billion in 2006
Ford Motor Corp. reported profits of $17.6 billion in the first quarter of 1998
Exxon Mobil Corp. reported second-quarter earnings of $11.68 billion Thursday

L2k

2008-08-01 01:17:59

glad you are so happy about getting your ass gaped at the gas pump nino, I'm sure that will change once you can no longer afford gas. Maybe the water dept. should start charging us 5.00 a gallon just because they can in this free market and make billions doing so. Can anyone say this needs to be regulated? Now!

{Rx}Crowbar Ninja DJ Z3R0

2008-08-01 07:44:45

Well... From what I've seen you have all either not taken it into account or overlooked it entirely. (I'll get to this in a moment.)

Progression is going to be baby steps. As much as I would love to see this change happen in a year or so it simply will not happen.

Hybrid cars are only as good as the electric portion stays in charge, which degrades over time and you'd need to pay for basically an overpriced battery change.

Electric cars have the same problem only more batteries. Yes, they have worked in the past but its an inconvenience to charge them everywhere or every night meaning that you cant do a logn trip with it since you'd need to find a suitable place to charge it every night. Once Batteries advance even more so they hold charges longer and recharge faster in that scale, they will be worth it. Think of it as having to fill the tank of your car every night instead of every week. Thats how it is right now.

Hydrogen is in the works, it will take a while until it becomes viable. Besides changing into hydrogen would mean a complete remodeling of the gas station system before consistant use of it can be made. Then theres the problem of convincing that driving a hydrogen car is not actually driving a hydrogen bomb.

Bio-fuels, as it has been mentioned before, would actually increase CO2 levels in the atmosphere at the moment. Also its probably more expensive to produce this and keep a lot of people fed.

I read somewhere that converting a car to running on a different fuel source is something that the EPA describes as Illegal since the car was made and designed to have a certain amount of emissions. Sure you can do it but that would mean the car is less street legal.

Now to what I started this with. In the next two years a company called Tata is going to release a car that runs on air.
By air I mean Air compression, thats what powers the motor, its clean emissions and will give you incredible mileage. What you would need is a minimal amount of gas for the air compressor and that would be if you just want to run the air compressor instead of hooking it up to an air hose. Theres no car company that will be selling this car, the company will sell them directly to the consumer. I'll find more info on this and post it but I think thats pretty fucking amazing. And this will be available everywhere in two years.

I could go on to complain and talk about everything else on this topic but I'll save it for another thread.

EDIT:

Found air car articles.

http://www.fashionfunky.com/2008/02/tat ... usa_by.php

And

http://www.theaircar.com/acf/

To be honest I don't care if the car looks ugly. If it means I'm virtually paying for no gas I'd take it in a heartbeat.

<kyle>

2008-08-01 14:09:32

</3 bad influence

Anonymous

2008-08-01 18:42:14

badinfluence wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:
badinfluence wrote:You guys are all fucking dumb. What we need to invent is wings so we can all fly everywhere.

Uhm, duh? Obvious solution.
Dumb?!?! Ever heard of the Wright Brothers?
Airplanes?
Hang Gliders?

lol your dumb.

Actually, I wasn't saying YOU ARE dumb. I said lol YOUR dumb, ie lol your calling dumb.
I am loling at your dumb, not loling at the fact you are dumb, which i know is not true.

Anonymous

2008-08-01 18:45:35

L2k wrote:glad you are so happy about getting your ass gaped at the gas pump nino, I'm sure that will change once you can no longer afford gas. Maybe the water dept. should start charging us 5.00 a gallon just because they can in this free market and make billions doing so. Can anyone say this needs to be regulated? Now!

Can you say NIXON? This was already done, in the seventies, and it was a disaster, creating gas lines and higher prices. Let increased supply drop the prices and increased supply will only come from decreased regulation.

And damned if George didn't rescind the EXE. order on drilling. Good Job!

ninojman

2008-08-01 19:11:46

I don't know about where you live, but if a gas station has gas for 2 cent less on one side of the street is gets packed with lines of people and the other one 2 cent higher is empty.

L2k

2008-08-01 21:44:04

65 Impala SS wrote:Can you say NIXON? This was already done, in the seventies, and it was a disaster, creating gas lines and higher prices. Let increased supply drop the prices and increased supply will only come from decreased regulation.

And damned if George didn't rescind the EXE. order on drilling. Good Job!

I suppose your right Impala and I'm sure the oil giants like exxon mobil would just slow production to a crawl as punishment for telling them what they have to charge. However I don't see the government letting up on all the environmental restrictions that are preventing increased production of US oil and refining which I agree is what we need most, so where does that leave us?
What else can be done to change things? Will our country be brought to its knees because oil companies can charge at will for no justifiable reason? The fact that they can profit 50 billion a year with all the expenses they have and the prices they are paying for crude and the fact that people are buying less of their product, just means they are severely charging too much for the product.

Even though Bush lifted that order new companies are at the mercy of Congress and many other environmental regulations which even if they can get through will take too many years to have any effect at all, and by then Im afraid it will be too late.

As a small business owner I can tell you if the prices continue to go up this is going to have a very large impact on many things, things that most people are not yet thinking about right now. So when and if prices get to that point and it affects the common persons ability to buy food for their family what do you suppose will happen? Anarchy on the streets and or another great depression is most likely the answer and at that point it will be too late to do anything.

See gas prices will affect the cost of everything you need to buy, and if businesses can not charge enough to cover these costs they will fail, people will lose jobs, the people that have jobs will be making less money and no one will be able to afford anything other than gas to get to work which will barely pay enough to buy food to eat, let alone pay a house payment or rent. I can see these steps in motion now and honestly I don't think it will be too much longer before everything starts to collapse as a result.

God forbid Obama gets in office with a democratic controlled congress and their environmental agenda, because this is what we can expect to see if that happens. It's not that I'm against preserving the earth and our resources but we have to be able to survive at the same time.