UK Piracy Laws = Extremeeeee - HL2DMU Forum Archive

snipeIT

2008-07-25 07:10:34

Six of the UK’s biggest net providers have agreed a plan with the music industry to tackle piracy online. The deal, negotiated by the government, will see hundreds of thousands of letters sent to net users suspected of illegally sharing music. Hard core file-sharers could see their broadband connections slowed, under measures proposed by the UK government. BT, Virgin, Orange, Tiscali, BSkyB and Carphone Warehouse have all signed up. Geoff Taylor, chief executive of the BPI, which represents the music industry, said: “All of the major ISPs in the UK now recognise they have a responsibility to deal with illegal file-sharers on their networks.” The plan commits the firms to working towards a “significant reduction” in the illegal sharing of music.

In addition to this chance, parents whose children download music and films illegally will be blacklisted and have their internet access curbed under government reforms to fight online piracy. Households that ignore warnings will be subjected to online surveillance and their internet speeds will be reduced, making it very difficult for them to download large files. The measures, the first of their kind in the world, will be announced today by Baroness Vadera, who brokered the deal between internet service providers and Ofcom, the telecoms body. About 6.5 million Britons are thought to have downloaded music illegally last year. It has been estimated that illegal downloads will cost the music industry alone £1 billion over the next five years.

Source: Times, BBC

Discuss.

Complete invasion of privacy. How can one be given the right to see what you do online? Might as well have some government official stand next to you every time you go on the Internet.

Why not spend resources on much bigger issues, instead of catching 14 year olds downloading gangster rap music. Guess the public has no say.

PwNs3ttia

2008-07-25 07:13:13

yeah internet neutrality, been a long time coming seems it may be upon us

Blasphemy

2008-07-25 07:16:02

MPAA/RIAA are making fake torrents trixing peeps and getting their ip addresses and emails.

PwNs3ttia

2008-07-25 07:20:37

Blasphemy Squad wrote:MPAA/RIAA are making fake torrents trixing peeps and getting their ip addresses and emails.

proof?!?!?

Anonymous

2008-07-25 10:32:14

UK is a socialist nanny state. What do you expect?

lead

2008-07-25 13:20:45

65 Impala SS wrote:UK is a socialist nanny state. What do you expect?

yes it was about 30 years ago impala but socialism is different from fascism; its now more like thought policing, anyway just as well we dont pass judgement on a country that re-elected George Bush LMAO

oops controversial

lead

2008-07-25 13:23:25

Blasphemy Squad wrote:MPAA/RIAA are making fake torrents trixing peeps and getting their ip addresses and emails.

blas that is true they were traced to the same sources seemingly!!

sunsnail

2008-07-25 13:34:34

I'm not surprised it'll cost them over 1bn. Their legal expenses are very high

provost

2008-07-25 14:20:15

Well they should stop living in the past imo. We had vinyls, they're antiques. There was the cassettes, its over. Now we have the music CD's...

Every era has an end. People must not fear it, but learn to use it.

Tons and tons of way to use the internet to make it your friend.

From other bands...

Slipknot had something damn cool once, in each CD you had an unique code to a very closed community and a special newsletter and fancontest with a very high prize-winning chance.
Now all they did is set a forum and print a couple of t-shirt and send dirty mugs in wich they drank their coffe via mail right? well guess what? they fucking sold out this limited edition.

Nine Inch Nail understood that (couldn't find any other example). Releasing several online work and totally free stuff, they're getting their name known. making video contest online using youtube etc.. spreading their names like aids, using mouth-to-ear. When there's a show, you pay the big bucks for a ticket but if youre a fan you love it.

imo repression is never the key to ANY problems. We must pause,think and adapt.

imagigne if back then people would've stopped computers and internet because it could be breached and your privacy could be invade bla bla.... we would still be....sending... LETTERS?!?!? now that's frightnening

CD's just a lobby like the oil, its an industry filled with ppl claiming they know what they're doing.

I'm done.

keefy

2008-07-25 15:00:17

eat my lead wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:UK is a socialist nanny state. What do you expect?
yes it was about 30 years ago impala but socialism is different from fascism; its now more like thought policing, anyway just as well we dont pass judgement on a country that re-elected George Bush LMAO oops controversial

Nannystate I agree with 100%
Tehre is a law in the UK that entitles us to have our bins emptied the Labour Government is thinking abourt scrapping this law.
My uncle got warned by the police for "provocotive parking"

The local councils have to power to spy on us now becasuse of some stupid "anti terrorismtm" law Labour introduced. thing is though they use it for anything but Anti terrorism.
Labour keep passing stupid bullshit laws,it is time they went. I tremember when John Major said "new Labour new danger"

I used to be a heavy pirate a coupe of years ago downloading games mostly then I swiched to movies and have a ratehr big collection of both movies and games which i never play or watch now LOL. Within the last year I just cannot be bothered downloading stuff becasue it takes to friggin long and I have a PS3 for films in Hi def now so downloadign 50GB on my 2Meg connection will take how long? It isnt worth my hassle anymore I think.

Watch another law be passed making it the ISP responsibility for our behaviour online!

Jelly Fox

2008-07-25 20:08:22

Pah, not bothered.

I don't know anyone who doesn't download tottents so they'll be sending out a hell of a lot of letters which are just going to get ignored... paste of paper really.

Zman42

2008-07-25 21:11:48

snipeIT wrote: Complete invasion of privacy. How can one be given the right to see what you do online? Might as well have some government official stand next to you every time you go on the Internet.

I'm sorry, but do you really think that everything you say, download, upload, or view on the internet is not watched? how can anyone be given the right to see what you do online? invasion of privacy? educate yourself. the NSA is reading your emails, listening to phone conversations if you say certain keywords and god knows what else... Once people realize the internet is the worlds largest copy machine, and start acting accordingly, they will realize the way to have privacy on the internet is to not be on the internet.

If you're euro then its not the nsa listening and watching but im sure you have a similar branch of the government.

keefy

2008-07-25 21:15:36

Zman42 wrote: If you're euro then its not the nsa listening and watching but im sure you have a similar branch of the government.

Yes, Big Brother!

snipeIT

2008-07-25 22:28:30

In Canada, the RCMP does not engage after "individuals" who are suspected in acts of piracy online. However they do go after big organizations, to keep their friends south of the border happy.

A large portion of Canada's small population knows how all this shit works, and frankly so do all the companies. Thats how they profit from Hollywood. ISP's offer higher and more expensive Internet speeds to the public (Close to or higher than 25-30MBps)

Zman, what you are referring to is much more related to terrorism (Which really has no clear definition imo).

Nevertheless, however you look at the situation there will always be a certain group making big bucks. Those ips in the UK for instance are getting much more from the British Government to invoke those laws that they would make if they sold it to the public.

provost

2008-07-26 01:32:20

snipeIT wrote:In Canada, the RCMP does not engage after "individuals" who are suspected in acts of piracy online. However they do go after big organizations.

Yeah exactly, no one gives a damn if you download the entire world on your bajillions hard drive here. Just dont start selling anything or its pretty much insta-ban in RL.

The guy who used to sell me burned 360 discs got caught 1 week after i found out about him, some other guy had a pc-repair/parts shop and he closed / went bankrupt; after being caught selling copied discs.

Anyhow, China's pretty much unstoppable regarding copies and I doubt any law will change that.

Zman42

2008-07-26 01:34:26

SnipeIT i was merely commenting on how you seemed to be shocked and horrified that the government is monitoring your online activities, and trying to tell you that this is nothing new...

GatesMcTaste

2008-07-26 02:39:50

i am with Virgin (cue the humour) while they and the other 5 major UK ISP's have signed up for this NONE of them are willing to remove or curb interent usuage, at the moment it is only a letter which i'm not too bothered about, plus limewire has shitty dl rates anyway i have 20 mb and i still have to wait 5 mins for a track... where's the justice there?

as i am being watched i would just like to say:

i am a terrorist and am coming to a street near you
i download illegal music... so fuck you

thankyou for your time UK government, now go sort out our economy you managed to fuck up...

badinfluence

2008-07-26 03:27:03

Rofl, that's hilarious gates.

Anonymous

2008-07-26 03:30:52

eat my lead wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:UK is a socialist nanny state. What do you expect?
yes it was about 30 years ago impala but socialism is different from fascism; its now more like thought policing, anyway just as well we dont pass judgement on a country that re-elected George Bush LMAO oops controversial

The Euros spend PLENTY of energy criticizing the US. Socialism is government control over means of production and shared public services, so all of Europe is socialist.
I'd vote for George again if i could rather than some limp ass liberal pussy fibber like Obama. I recall Tony Blair himself supported the venture into Iraq. Did you vote for him?

As for piracy/theft, i hope all the thieves pay SOMETHING like the rest of us.
What do property thieves expect? Yeah, the big G is now gonna start cracking down on theft. No shit! Thanks a lot you bit torrent/bearshare/limewire douchebags

Anonymous

2008-07-26 03:37:40

All you downloaders stealing peoples art, why not just go to the store and STEAL THE CD!?!?

Its the same thing, but ethics and morality mean nothing now a days.

And what is this bullshit about terrorism not having a definition?!?!
Terrorism is the use of VIOLENCE to achieve political change that can't be achieved through the will of the people at the ballot box.
Terrorism has nothing to do with a discussion about piracy and government crack downs.

If the government is not tasked with policing and protecting peoples property (their art/product), maybe they should just stop patrolling your neighborhood for murderers and thieves. Lets see how much you cry when this happens.

keefy

2008-07-26 04:08:41

65 Impala SS wrote: I recall Tony Blair himself supported the venture into Iraq. Did you vote for him?

Nope, I never have voted Labour and never will after they way they have fucked up this country.

Jelly Fox

2008-07-26 04:52:38

I wouldn't buy half the shit I download, so really what difference does it make to the artist.....fuck all. The record company's are the ones robbing them by taking a massive cut of the record sales.

Impala have you ever downloaded porn??? if you have you're a hypocrite

GatesMcTaste wrote:limewire has shitty dl rates anyway i have 20 mb and i still have to wait 5 mins for a track... where's the justice there?

torrents is where it's at

http://thepiratebay.org/ is a good start

SND

2008-07-26 06:50:34

damn impala your making this into some serious stuff. lets not get into political head bashing because it will go on for a long time.

One thing I must say is that im proud of my country for what it has achieved and stands for . True we where involed in Iraq but we where mislead for the reason to got to war on most of the country stand against it better than most countries where half the population don't know shit whats happening outside their boarders. ohh and the something called the global credit crush so everyone economy slows down luckily uk is not in rescission like others.

now back to the topic.
this is the first time i heard of this in my country, heard about it being implemented in the US but here not sure why i did not see this in the news or newspaper must be because uni year finished and i don't read the paper on the tube like i usually do. But damn it a bit to far what i upload or download in my own business i don't want someone monitoring even half the shit i look at. What will happen is that i will switch isp to one the gives me freedom and has no control because that one of the great things about the web. I don't download that much really prefer to buy things than waste my time downloading stuff that just want be the same feeling. Im a designer so i would not like people getting my work for free with out being rewarded for it.But im a student i don't have much cash on me to spend on everything the i want to see or watch so if it good i will pay for it if its not then what the hell i see it for free btw i don't download film i stream them

saves my hd space.

Fearsome*

2008-07-26 09:44:13

They are sending you a warning, in the US you get the same thing usually through email from your net admin. In asia you have to bribe the police officer or goto jail. It's no big deal.

snipeIT

2008-07-26 12:50:38

All you downloaders stealing peoples art, why not just go to the store and STEAL THE CD!?!?

Because going to the store requires time and money. Why pay for something if your not guaranteed quality. By quality in my terms I mean something that I would like/enjoy.

Also terrorism is more or less a subjective term, which reflects on ones own personal opinion. In your definition you used the word "Violence"....please define it. (I am sure many courts would like a definition of this term)

PwNs3ttia

2008-07-26 19:30:49

65 Impala SS wrote:All you downloaders stealing peoples art, why not just go to the store and STEAL THE CD!?!?

i actually buy music from the artists i think deserve supporting

Fearsome*

2008-07-26 21:17:16

If you want to figure out if you like the song there is radio and other avenues of getting a free sample including the very stores them self which most have headphones and a selection system to check out songs. My point is there are plenty of ways to get a free sample and if you feel they are not good enough then boycott the product or steal it and say I stole it cause I wanted to save money the truth. But dont sit around crying about companies backed by employees, artist and shareholders who are simply trying to protect their source of income which they rightfully own.

These days people seem to think that just cause something is easy to copy on a computer it is not worth anything but they forget the massive amount of money it takes to produce that first disk. It costs valve 40 million to make HL2 this is a number I know, it is not trivial to do these things. And you must also take into account the number of failed products which cost money to make but lost money or failed. Everyone needs a return on their investment or people will stop investing and then you will be SOL for games movies and music as people will just keep copying old shit which is what happens in asia where art and IP protection sucks.

provost

2008-07-26 21:27:04

[quote="PwNs3ttia
i actually buy music from the artists i think deserve supporting[/quote]

Yeah same here, i download alot of games/movies but when i really like one, even if i know i wont be watching it again, ill go buy it because its a bit like voting "i want to see more of this kind of stuff so i support it"

s0iz

2008-07-26 22:15:36

PwNs3ttia wrote: i actually buy music from the artists i think deserve supporting

Me too, not those commercial artist that you tire of listening them in a week.

Anonymous

2008-07-26 22:24:49

I-Tunes plays a sample. CMJ has a CD every month of new alternative music. I have Sirius Radio and if i like something, i go tell someone, support the artist, and BUY it.
Someone asked if i downloaded porn and if, then i was a hypocrite, which totally loses the point. We are talking about PROTECTED property that is for sale.

I am tired of false arguments and rationalizations for stealing. Every excuse is just an invalid smokescreen to hide/justify theft.

Governments and companies and artists are cracking down on theft because it is their business.

snipeIT

2008-07-26 23:28:13

65 Impala SS wrote:I-Tunes plays a sample. CMJ has a CD every month of new alternative music. I have Sirius Radio and if i like something, i go tell someone, support the artist, and BUY it.
Someone asked if i downloaded porn and if, then i was a hypocrite, which totally loses the point. We are talking about PROTECTED property that is for sale.

I am tired of false arguments and rationalizations for stealing. Every excuse is just an invalid smokescreen to hide/justify theft.

Governments and companies and artists are cracking down on theft because it is their business.

If you support your claim in one instance, you have to do it on the wide scale too my friend. When a country goes to war with another country and pumps oil out of their land, that is not stealing? But when someone downloaded some 01010111's thats stealing?

Get over it...

s0iz

2008-07-26 23:30:50

That's the problem, everybody sees videogames as just some stupid videogames and not as the work of a man. Do you have idea of the work and time that requires in making a videogame?

Or a song, movie, whatever.

Now, don't bring politics in this thread. That's a non-ending discussion.

SND

2008-07-27 00:02:04

65 Impala SS wrote:Someone asked if i downloaded porn and if, then i was a hypocrite, which totally loses the point. We are talking about PROTECTED property that is for sale.

.
lol u can buy porn btw. They don't don't screw each other or them selfs for free u know for your entertainment.

Anonymous

2008-07-27 00:30:45

snipeIT wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:I-Tunes plays a sample. CMJ has a CD every month of new alternative music. I have Sirius Radio and if i like something, i go tell someone, support the artist, and BUY it.
Someone asked if i downloaded porn and if, then i was a hypocrite, which totally loses the point. We are talking about PROTECTED property that is for sale.

I am tired of false arguments and rationalizations for stealing. Every excuse is just an invalid smokescreen to hide/justify theft.

Governments and companies and artists are cracking down on theft because it is their business.
If you support your claim in one instance, you have to do it on the wide scale too my friend. When a country goes to war with another country and pumps oil out of their land, that is not stealing? But when someone downloaded some 01010111's thats stealing?

Get over it...

The US is not pumping out Iraq's oil for our use.
Learn the facts before you you jump off the deep end.
Iraqi oil is put into an Iraqi trust for the people of Iraq. Get your facts straight, rather then just repeating state owned BS!

Do not confuse two issues. Iraq and GW Bush have nothing to do with your stealing other folks songs, that are copy-written (look it up) and protected property.

Anonymous

2008-07-27 00:33:43

SND wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:Someone asked if i downloaded porn and if, then i was a hypocrite, which totally loses the point. We are talking about PROTECTED property that is for sale.
.
lol u can buy porn btw. They don't don't screw each other or them selfs for free u know for your entertainment.

Yes you can buy porn, if you like. My point is i do not download anything that isnt free or BOUGHT.
I downloaded NIN newest which was offered for free with an email address. How does that equate with theft?

snipeIT

2008-07-27 09:36:20

The US is not pumping out Iraq's oil for our use.
Learn the facts before you you jump off the deep end.
Iraqi oil is put into an Iraqi trust for the people of Iraq. Get your facts straight, rather then just repeating state owned BS!

I suppose your one of those plain simple folks who believes everything the media tells them to believe. No wonder American politics are so extremely fucked over.

Yes...pplz we are helping Iraq become a democracy! Unfortunately our soldiers do get horny at times and are required to rape Muslim womens and kill random people because their friend just got killed by a IED and they need to gain revenge. Yes but overall the progress is going good...Nothing to fear...

Ironically your telling me to get my facts straight?

Sigh.

lead

2008-07-27 12:23:20

65 Impala SS wrote:
eat my lead wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:UK is a socialist nanny state. What do you expect?
yes it was about 30 years ago impala but socialism is different from fascism; its now more like thought policing, anyway just as well we dont pass judgement on a country that re-elected George Bush LMAO oops controversial
The Euros spend PLENTY of energy criticizing the US. Socialism is government control over means of production and shared public services, so all of Europe is socialist.
I'd vote for George again if i could rather than some limp ass liberal pussy fibber like Obama. I recall Tony Blair himself supported the venture into Iraq. Did you vote for him?

As for piracy/theft, i hope all the thieves pay SOMETHING like the rest of us.
What do property thieves expect? Yeah, the big G is now gonna start cracking down on theft. No shit! Thanks a lot you bit torrent/bearshare/limewire douchebags

Soz for continuing this discussion but:
I dont think we spend any more energy critising the US than our own governments to be honest impala. IMHO All i can say is that socialism in the true context of the ideal was never reached and was constantly in retreat from the 1950's onwards; Iraq aint a venture its a disaster based on false belief and political, rather than humanitarian interests; as for GWB well if you believe that someone that can't string an intelligent sentence together is in charge of the US then...

as for fibbers all politicians are! Tony Blair may have been a total shit, but he was a clever politician and in some strange way I admire him for that even tho I wouldnt give him my vote.

Back to the string:
Meanwhile back at the ranch

If everything was free to D/L then there would be no point in producing anything that costs money to make unless it was purely philanthropic . Its the price that we pay that is central to this argument I believe e.g. just about everything microsoft ever turned out. No market without demand old chap.

snipeIT

2008-07-27 14:01:38

WELL SAID MY MOTHER FUCKING FRIEND!@!!1111@@!

**CLAPS REALLY HARD**

Please lets end this debate at that! I love you eat my lead.

Anonymous

2008-07-27 16:55:22

If you have actual evidence we are stealing Iraq's oil, post it or shut your trap.
There isn't anything different with US politics. It has always been a mess.
As for Media, our news is NOT state owned! lol I find it hilarious, with the internet and non-state owned media, folks from Socialist countries with GOVERNMENT RUN news agencies accuse US folks of being ignorant and controlled by media.

So, so far, terrorism has no definition (try again), piracy is not theft, The US is stealing Iraq's oil, I believe everything the media tells me and american politics are fuxed (and i suppose Euro politics is not). LMMFAO!

Also, The Brits voted in the LIBERAL and socialist Labor party years ago. What did they expect? Less government?

And Snipeit, there is no WE in Iraq. Canada has nothing to do with Iraq. They have no troops there. They have not supported US in Iraq. So, we do it without your help.
And why do you bring up a rape case and that negates the whole effort?!?! Thats foolish.

Anonymous

2008-07-27 18:13:07

One more thing: does anyone ever see a thread started criticizing Euro politics or Presidents? Why is it always some Canadian or European coming on and calling Bush names and criticizing americans for voting their minds and politics in general. This is not your country. Worry about your own problems. Criticize your own and mind your business.
Your socialist sense of "shared responsibilities" is oozing forth and putrifying my great land.
Buzz off.
Iraq doesnt effect you. You are not fighting there. Our politics dont effect you. Whether Obama or McCain wins, it has nothing to do with Canada or Europe.
No one cares if you like our politics or policies.

SND

2008-07-27 21:38:02

Now im really starting to get pissed impala this is about piracy laws not about u justify how right u are i really don't want to get into this needless bitch of politics i play this to have fun not talk about this stuff. If u want u can make a topic about but stick to it.

65 Impala SS wrote:Iraq doesnt effect you. You are not fighting there. Our politics dont effect you. Whether Obama or McCain wins, it has nothing to do with Canada or Europe.

One thing is that US is a super power what u do effects other countries for example your governments poor efforts to look after your economy has effected the global market. second is the Europe lives next to the middle east and we care what happens to other countries and people so if your action in the middle east effects it we do care.

Now i can pull a couple of bbc documentaries to prove how blind u are. But guess what I am not bothered what u think and would prefer u to stick to the topic.

Blasphemy

2008-07-27 21:38:36

I stole all the music i have from the internets, don't tell anyone k?

PwNs3ttia

2008-07-27 21:52:03

Blasphemy Squad wrote:I stole all the music i have from the internets, don't tell anyone k?

keefy

2008-07-27 22:16:23

When I fancy a good laugh I will read this thread.

Anonymous

2008-07-27 23:17:43

eat my lead wrote:
65 Impala SS wrote:UK is a socialist nanny state. What do you expect?
yes it was about 30 years ago impala but socialism is different from fascism; its now more like thought policing, anyway just as well we dont pass judgement on a country that re-elected George Bush LMAO oops controversial

I made a comment that was on topic. I didnt launch into a political Hate Bush tangent.
Its always the same. Anybody that doesnt agree with your piracy is met with some GWB/America sux/America should be more like Europe or w/e.

Now you bring up the US economy and its affecting the global markets. Some folks never have the facts. We are stealing Iraqs oil, Bush is a moron... and now our economy.
The fact is, during Bush's watch, the American economy has expanded the entire size of the Chinese economy. Pretty good compared to Europes 1% per year!
As usual, EVERYTHING is the US's fault. We're dummies for electing Bush, Iraq is a disaster, the economy blah blah... Mind your own business and stop insulting Americans because they don't conform to your Euro-socialist BBC mindset.

Edit_ State owned and run BBC my ass! You go watch that crap

snipeIT

2008-07-27 23:44:06

You have no argument here.

You claim to have evidence, yet you repeat the exact same thing over and over. Obviously what I say is not reported in the media (So there won't be a way for you to find out, sorry). But at least you could do yourself a favor and prove your side of the argument. You are supposed to weaken your opposition not strengthen it.

Some of the stuff you say is just contradictory to common sense. It's as if your saying 1+1=4 and your claiming to prove that. I am sure if you take a few critical thinking courses you will be a bit more conscious about what is really going on.

They found Saddam in a hole 100 feet in a ground...Yet they can't find Bin Laden....Seems like an artificially made terrorist to mee....Good excuse to get some free oil though! Nuke em boys!

ONE last thing impala...

I am sure you can give me a significantly exact number of how many US troops have died, but you won't have an idea as to how many Iraq's and Afghani's have...None of us will.

Maybe you should go watch some Pearl Harbor and get your patriotism feeling back up m8!

Anonymous

2008-07-28 00:21:01

snipeIT wrote:You have no argument here.

You claim to have evidence, yet you repeat the exact same thing over and over. Obviously what I say is not reported in the media (So there won't be a way for you to find out, sorry). But at least you could do yourself a favor and prove your side of the argument. You are supposed to weaken your opposition not strengthen it.

Some of the stuff you say is just contradictory to common sense. It's as if your saying 1+1=4 and your claiming to prove that. I am sure if you take a few critical thinking courses you will be a bit more conscious about what is really going on.

They found Saddam in a hole 100 feet in a ground...Yet they can't find Bin Laden....Seems like an artificially made terrorist to mee....Good excuse to get some free oil though! Nuke em boys!

ONE last thing impala...

I am sure you can give me a significantly exact number of how many US troops have died, but you won't have an idea as to how many Iraq's and Afghani's have...None of us will.

Maybe you should go watch some Pearl Harbor and get your patriotism feeling back up m8!

So YOU have an argument? i dont see one. You say i have evidence?!?! I was not the one who said we were stealing Iraq's oil. If one wants to say this, then back it up.
You go on and on about my contradictions and you list NOT ONE!

Saddam was NOT 100 feet in a hole and what does Bin Laden have to do with Iraq, Hating Bush, Piracy or whatever. You have an ever shifting non-argument. You bring up all this trash having nothing to do with the discussion.

The topic was UK's invasion of privacy as to piracy. You folks live in socialist nanny states. WHAT DO U EXPECT?

Pearl Harbor?!?!?
As for the bodycount of Iraqis: Why not post the numbers of dead Iraqis at the hand of Saddam?:!? Why not!? Do you think a New Iraq will be forged with no blood shed?

You have no point about Iraq. You are obviously ignorant as to recent events there. Al Qida is routed, The Sunnis and Shia are reconciling, Deaths are down, we fight ALONG SIDE IRAQI troops and police. We are there under the permission of a democratically elected government.

All you do is spout BBC and MoveOn.org propaganda and nonsense.

And i don't care if you like it or not.
Don't reply to me if you don't like it.

Blasphemy

2008-07-28 00:55:24

PwNs3ttia wrote:
Blasphemy Squad wrote:I stole all the music i have from the internets, don't tell anyone k?
k

thanks your a true friend.

GatesMcTaste

2008-07-28 01:33:44

: 1196745837195.jpg (57.1 KiB) Viewed 331 times

SND

2008-07-28 01:46:15

k this is what i see tell me what u think impala im sure your come up with something great to show its completely wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfDC-e7U ... re=related

also this so u understand why people blame US so much
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axbEVGi_M30

Anonymous

2008-07-28 02:18:18

Keep your eurotrash BBC crap. You folks are a broken record of bs. Bush sux all, problems are Americas fault, Iraq is an illegal blah blah blah.

I notice you dont talk about a democracy in Iraq!
I notice you do not talk about the surge and Sunni/Shia reconciliation.
All you got is Socialist UN propaganda from the Guardian, BBC, w/e.

Get a clue. Its STATE RUN Media!

All those that BLAME America, you can kiss my American ass!

Zman42

2008-07-28 02:45:16

impala calm down, and if you want to create a new thread for your political rants.

badinfluence

2008-07-28 03:10:59

LESS QQ MORE PEW PEW

Anonymous

2008-07-28 04:58:23

Zman42 wrote:impala calm down, and if you want to create a new thread for your political rants.

I'll calm down when baseless and false accusations of stealing oil by my country, put forth by uninformed euros, ends.

They can kiss my ass.

L2k

2008-07-28 07:58:50

a little more back on topic, something I find interesting about this whole file sharing downloading thing is this;
anyone can record any music or movie they want off of satellite or cable straight to their computer in a hd digital format, the quality is very good, and that will never be stopped.
So its like if you have the right equipment you get what you want for free as long as you subscribe to one of these services that broadcasts it over the air (or of course you could be stealing that signal but that is another subject). It's kinda like back in the day when the VCR came out and there was a big hoopla about being able to record movies ect off of tv and the recording industries went all out to sue and try to prevent VCR's from coming to market and lost. Now the RIAA thinks by going after file sharing its gonna matter or stop people from sharing files, aside from the fact that how can they differentiate between people who legally purchased something and just want to share it with some friends or family.

I understand an artists right to be paid for their work but in todays age and with the technology that is available seems pretty unstoppable to me, seems the real problem is the way the artist is paid initially and the fact that they expect to be able to make millions off one stupid song.

snipeIT

2008-07-28 10:18:35

Impala, i think it would be cool idea if we do out little debates in a server using our microphones along with anyone else interested in improving their debate skills.

We can create the hl2dm debate team!!!

lead

2008-07-28 10:34:34

I'm really sad as I like politics and studied foreign policy for two years at university (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz); so I can't be bothered to reply to someone who does'nt have a clue as to what is actually going on either within, or outwith his own country.

sweeping generalisations deserve the same by return so if you don't want my peaches don't shake my tree

Anyway or a more interesting note I found this article on the possibilities of encription

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20 ... -else.html

and this one on intereception of internal communications especially for naive people like @3!^&* who can't see past their own curtains

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20 ... sides.html

ps god bless auntie

btw SND i cant believe u posted a link to prove dubya could count in reverse gg:D

keefy

2008-07-28 18:42:29

How the heck did this go from the UK to the US?

SND

2008-07-28 18:55:21

well the music and film industries make allot of money in the US market i would not be surprised if they going to pull of the same thing to try and control and police the information that carried on the network to insure that there owned property is not shared with out them pocking from it.

snipeIT

2008-07-28 19:08:41

It always goes to the US somehow..........................eheheheheheheheh

Edge

2008-07-28 22:49:08

This thread / forum isn't a place for ranting about this type of stuff.

ninojman

2008-07-29 00:00:50

ya impala try to stay on topic, yes you feel strongly about certain things, but i would say maybe start another thread about it, rather then high-jacking this thread. Also you are generalizing euro's the same way you are getting made for them doing the same about the US.

this is the Cafeteria so off topic rants are okay, as long as you aren't personally attacking a person or group.

keefy

2008-07-29 01:35:20

Impala started it anyway, he was asking for a flame war and everyone else got suckered in.

Anonymous

2008-07-29 03:38:19

OK, i apologize.

Fearsome*

2008-07-29 04:56:35

I just have to say I made a typo in my way back post it is hl2 valve spent 40 million on not hl1.

That being said I stick to my original claim. One time many in the US were unhappy with France in its opposition to our entering the Iraq war. Then Bill Oriely (sp?) and some others decided to call a US boycott of french products. This in fact did have an effect. Maybe not solving the problem but the french wine making economy felt a hit. There is one vote that trumps them all it is the dollar you hold. If you deny someone that dollar because you disagree they will fix their business if any significant amount of people agree with you and are willing to follow your lead. BUT you should not steal their wine or whatever you should just goto an alternative or go without because when you steal it you just prove to them you are so addicted you cant get off of it and they will target the problem which is stealing. If you all really feel the record companies are a problem simply stop buying music at all and stop listening to it. When they see their sales slipping and artist who use those labels find their ratings going down the toilet they will change their ways because once again they will target the problem which is you are neither buying or listening to it so prosecuting theft will net them no gain. After all do you NEED music in order to live?

L2K if someone makes a killer song they deserve millions cause millions listened to it. This is the reward for the risk. You wont see pro athletes or anyone taking the gamble of going into an extremely risky field if there is not a good payoff. You gotta take an economics class if you don't understand this. Low risk = low yeild high risk = high yield. Being an artist is a high risk field a few make millions but most fail. And the record labels play the same risk game for every song they make millions off of they payed out for many more that failed. If the one good song does not pay for the bad songs then you have no capital to invest in new good songs (and bad ones). Everyone in their plays the game even the artist they do not know if their song will make it for sure that is why they sign bad contracts or they know they cant get it going without the massive backing of the record label. And all of this relies on being able to collect money from people. In order to do that you need to keep piracy down to a level which you can make money with (no you will never stop it all). And obviously if you dont have some punishment for people who do it to many people will just steal it all. So then what? force the few that pay to pay hundreds of dollars for a song? If you guys don't get it spend some time in Asia where their is to much corruption to protect IP. To much is stale and uninventive in the undeveloped countries because no one is willing to work on something only to get it ripped off. That is why the US is a major world power because we protect IP. When we stop protecting it all the incentive will be gone to develop and we will slip into mediocrity.

Also remember that your own selfishness is what will do you in. It has happened many times in the US and will happen many more just the same as in all other countries. In reality you guys only care because you want to steal songs and you want to feel like there is no chance you will ever be punished for it. If you get your way then the music industry will decline and you will lose the great music and the millions of dollars in economic stimulus that it had and when that music star does not bring her whole limo into the mcdonalds you work at and you get laid off then you might finally understand it.

Think about this, you do not need music you life will be fine without it. But people who have the spare cash for music help to stimulate the economy which keeps you employed. Supporting music is really a win win situation cause if you cant get it cause it is to expensive nothing bad happens in your life. Its not like its gas.

provost

2008-07-29 05:28:09

Fearsome* wrote:...

fearsome wins
Flawless Victory

snipeIT

2008-07-29 08:20:13

65 Impala SS wrote:OK, i apologize.

It's ok Impala we all make mistakes.

Not as big as the United States does, but we all make some....

Anonymous

2008-07-29 21:30:03

rrrrrrrr

L2k

2008-07-29 22:33:45

Fearsome nice post, and yeah I understand economics and Im all for stimulating the economy.
When it comes to music though I think its just odd that they are making such a big deal if people want to share on a low level. Understandably people who are downloading music then burning cd's and selling them for a profit at a swap meet are in the wrong as well as people who put things out there for anyone and everyone to have. My point though was that what difference is it going to make when you can just record the music off the air? It just makes it a little more difficult to obtain thats all, and if they do stop file sharing people will just resort to this method. So it seems all the millions they are spending to stop it are being wasted to me.
Think back in the day before the digital age, was big brother there slapping your wrist every time you bought a record and either got tired of it, didn't like it and just handed it off to someone else, or traded it, or let them make a cassette copy for themselves? No. Did the economy suffer because of that? No. Did that in someway hinder the development of new music and or artists? No.
I think that once you have bought and paid for something, and paid tax on it, you own it and should be allowed to do what ever you want with it except make a profit on it. If that means you want to play it on more than one device you own or want to make a back up or want to share it or trade with a few of your friends you should be able to, just like anything else you own.

Fearsome*

2008-07-29 23:47:25

Because at that time l2k a single person could not propagate a song to millions in a day for free. Yes you will always be able to steal music but if it is a little harder and less people do it the record company can sustain itself. If on the other hand its as easy as logging onto kazza and stealing then giving it away to thousands and you know no one can do anything legally to punish you then it will get completely out of control. After all how many people would actually pay for a song if they new they could have it for free without even moving their but out of their computer chair? My guess is a small portion of the population are so noble. For everyone else you need laws complete with a punishment system to keep them in line.

Lets take a look at the cassette tape days. You copy a song and the quality of the tape degrades do it enough and its total crap. On top of that you have to goto the same store that sells the song anyway to buy blank tapes, and then you have to know 1 guy with the song you want. All this trouble to steal a song resulted in many people just saying oh screw it I will just buy it. If anyone developed and sold cassette tapes that were fake in any large number the law could step in. But still many still did steal but not so many to destroy the industry. Now I do not believe napster destroyed the music industry, but I do believe that had the record companies not acted and did nothing by now years later they would be hurting and if they still did nothing in another 5 years they would probably mostly be completely dead.

I agree with others that the record companies need to change to deal with the times. They need to offer better value and easier access to music or companies like apple will overtake them. They need to lose the DRM or make it more flexible so you can put it on any device. But somehow they have to pull that off and not make it overly easy for people to steal. Right now the only solution seems to be to prosecute or punish some amount of the people who do it to scare others from doing it. Otherwise the industry needs to goto a different pay system. I agree with you on you last paragraph the problem is I just dont have a solution If I own a song and no longer want it I should be able to give it away. But the facts of reality are we cant go back in time so we need a new solution and if you can come up with a better one get building that website or offering that service and making money and making the record labels money and they will flock to you.

provost

2008-07-30 15:33:26

Fearsome* wrote:If I own a song and no longer want it I should be able to give it away.

Sounds like steam much?

Zman42

2008-07-30 19:06:23

.conflict wrote:
Fearsome* wrote:...
fearsome wins
Flawless Victory

Anonymous

2008-07-30 23:46:27

I like that yesterday, i clicked and Dl'd Terry Bozzio's Chamber Works w/ Metropole Orkestre on I-Tunes for $10.00. It was available for 17.99, but nonexistent, at fine retailers world-wide.
This is a powerful economic model for non-mainstream artists or art.
So, the digital world has changed the way things are done and for the better.
What has not changed is folks who think stealing is OK.

snipeIT

2008-07-31 08:49:22

Jeez impala, you keep saying "stealing" over and over yet you do not define what you consider stealing to be in your definition.

What, do you mean it in terms of money, life and death, what the $#@! do you mean by it?

Please define your terms...

Anonymous

2008-07-31 21:55:40

Downloading copywritten material, art, songs, movies... that you do not own that are not free. Does that make it plain enough. THAT is what the thread is about. I am not talking about Fair Use Doctrine, which is supposed to allow you to copy files you own for your own comsumption.

The above especially applies to DRM material, as much as i hate drm.

snipeIT

2008-08-01 00:11:59

But I am only downloading a few trillion 0's and 1's. That's about it.

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2008-08-01 00:43:12

I like this article. http://www.tommyv2.com/06november20.htm

As far as the US is stealing oil making mistakes shit not one person here is near qualified to judge or debate what each others country does, so let's leave it at that.

snipeIT

2008-08-01 02:00:44

Ghost Dog_TSGK wrote:I like this article. http://www.tommyv2.com/06november20.htm

As far as the US is stealing oil making mistakes shit not one person here is near qualified to judge or debate what each others country does, so let's leave it at that.

What qualification does one require to post an opinion?

How would one get qualified if what you say is true? By going to an artificial learning institution (i.e. university)? Huh.

Freedom of speech is a right not a privilege.

Anonymous

2008-08-01 10:16:49

Learn the difference between mere opinion (I like CAKE!) and statements of fact (America is stealing Iraq's oil). Epistemology is a good place to start.

old time no.7

2008-08-01 18:54:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpCADfZD-eg

kid rock psa

snipeIT have you ever had something taken from you?

i've been mugged and robbed.
Lets talk about the difference b/w the two

At knife point three young men took money from my pockets. Armed Robbery.

I lived in teh Filmore in SF, someone broke into my apt and stole my PS2/GameCube/2 Laptops and 1/2 a blunt that was in my ashtray.
Robbery.

What do these have to do with downloading files?

Think of the mindset of someone who is willing to steal more tangible items. They don't care about the consequences, to them it's not as bad as something else.

That which you define as a "few 1's and 0's" is someone's hard work and possibly some record companies rental of studio time and employment of recording engineers to master the 24-track.

You seem to be deminishing your crime by implying that which you take is less of a valuable comodity b/c it's intangible, it sits on your hard drive and you can't really touch it.

You're contributing, possibly unknowingly, to the disposable era of music.

It's no longer art, it's filler.

I buy vinyl.
No DRM, better quality and holding the double gatefold covers while dropping a shure m-44 on to a dusty groove is what floats my dingy.

I predict p2p will never die, humans are selfish and greedy. But with the money the entertainment industry is loosing they will squeeze the lobbyists to squeeze the Feds to squeeze the telcoms/ISP's to control the bandwith that p2p filesharing uses to try to curb it...but there's always the black web/backdoors.

So like fearsome says...vote with your Dollar Yen Pound, all denominations, it's all just compensation for your profesional observations...