HLDM and Black Mesa Deathmatch musings (BMDM)

Opinion this way -> Not sure how many HLDM fans are here but I have always found this game ultimately superior to HL2DM in almost every regard, The physics elements in hl2dm are almost a distraction to the possible speed and emphasis on predictive type gameplay. Why am I bringing this up?

Check out the current status on Black Mesa, if you have not kept up with this mod you should take a trip to the forums. If you found HLDM: Source disappointing to the point of ridiculousness post, these guys need some deathmatch fans to guide them in the right direction.

A BMDM thread I made earlier voicing some possible concerns: http://www.blackmesasource.com/forums/s ... hp?t=21948

Nothign but arguments going on about bullshit things in that thread.

You have to go past that sort of crap though, The devs answer directly in the forums so we need some genuine deathmatch players posting their thoughts, opinions and critiques - Remember, this will be the biggest mod for any game engine ever made period.

A promising post on that link thread:

cman2k;334153 I think you can expect BMDM (consider that coined) to be a bit more polished than the auto-magic conversion that HLDM: Source basically was, lol.

Paul (lead programmer) and myself both worked on HL2CTF back in it's heyday. It gave us a lot of experience with creating a polished multiplayer experience, learning about serious and casual players and what they want, communicating and iterating with our community, and designing fun gameplay.

I think you can expect a multiplayer experience that is both true to the original and takes all of those things into account, and more. BMDM is not just a sidenote to the singleplayer...we take it very seriously and will use everything we love and we've learned to make it the best experience we can.

afaik HLDM:Source will not make it to the OB port. what then, to your knowledge, will BMS / BMDM do at that point?

hldm:s is shit compared to hl2dm, I'm not getting my hopes up for bmdm either.

Ghost Dog_TSGK wrote:hldm:s is shit compared to hl2dm

Fact.

I like hl2dm, but saying hldm is shit is just ludicrous.
That game freaking rapes. I'm not saying it is better than hl2dm, but I'm not saying it is worse either.
If only it had better graphics...

Faster movement.
Flying about at super insane speeds enabling you dodge the over powered RPG if quick enough.
Shooting through walls
Dummy rockets as well as guided
Less bugs
Using custom player models so others can see them too
Slams that work
snarks


YEah HLDM is shit NOT

he's talking about hldm:s, not hldm

VERY different games, trust me

lol missed the s
yeah hldm source is freaking bugged. But if he was talking about hldm, then what I was saying was right

Valve fubar stalkyard bigtime, no longer can we do the box run. way to go map maker that never played the original.
Damned sure the :S was NOT there.

HLDM and HLDM:S are both great games and have devout followers guys. bugs.. there're bugs everywhere. even in hl2dm
in any event, i'm pretty sure both won't get ported over to OB. too much to do to make them do the jump and for what. HLDM is based on an engine completely different than Source (ep1 that is) and HLDM:S is a patch. and a bad one at that. i think they'll just leave them both as is and let fans play them the way they know and love them.
and for the sake of the skeptics...most proly hl2dm WILL get ported over to OB. it is not a discontinued game, still being updated. Playerbase haven't dropped /changed really in over 3 years so if Valve wanted to kill it would have back in 05-06.

P.S. i'm not a Valve representative. i work for Coca Cola. ( )

val(ve)

IMO we arent even sure HL2DM is going to make it to orange box. We have been talking about it how long now??

hldm:s=poop

hldm=good as far as i know

hldm Adrenaline Gamer mod=fantastical.

If BMDM can retain the feel of hldm with their completely overhauled re-imaging of Half Life, we could be onto a winner.

Due to the Source Engine being Source and HLDM/AG being based off the Quake 1 engine, it will never be exactly the same...as sad as I am to say that. I'll gladly throw down some HLDM/AG over HL2DM but it's just an adjustment to a different style of gameplay. I kick ballz at AG but suck ass at UT2K4, it's just different engines that feel different, different tricks to do this or that, granted bugs are no exception but it seems to be what divides a good game from a bad game, not always negative. If BMDM feels more like HLDM, bhop works the same way, tau feels correct, speed is up, you can control your fov & viewmodel....I may just be the happiest person alive.

ziggo0 wrote:Due to the Source Engine being Source and HLDM/AG being based off the Quake 1 engine, it will never be exactly the same...as sad as I am to say that. I'll gladly throw down some HLDM/AG over HL2DM but it's just an adjustment to a different style of gameplay. I kick ballz at AG but suck ass at UT2K4, it's just different engines that feel different, different tricks to do this or that, granted bugs are no exception but it seems to be what divides a good game from a bad game, not always negative. If BMDM feels more like HLDM, bhop works the same way, tau feels correct, speed is up, you can control your fov & viewmodel....I may just be the happiest person alive.

sorry mate but you're a tad wrong here. all Source engines derive from the Original Quake code. even Source07=OB.

[EYE] Valar wrote:

ziggo0 wrote:Due to the Source Engine being Source and HLDM/AG being based off the Quake 1 engine, it will never be exactly the same...as sad as I am to say that. I'll gladly throw down some HLDM/AG over HL2DM but it's just an adjustment to a different style of gameplay. I kick ballz at AG but suck ass at UT2K4, it's just different engines that feel different, different tricks to do this or that, granted bugs are no exception but it seems to be what divides a good game from a bad game, not always negative. If BMDM feels more like HLDM, bhop works the same way, tau feels correct, speed is up, you can control your fov & viewmodel....I may just be the happiest person alive.

sorry mate but you're a tad wrong here. all Source engines derive from the Original Quake code. even Source07=OB.

Hmm...for some reason I thought Source was built from the ground up, completely from scratch. Even then though, it still is quite a bit different, if there is anything left of the Quake source in it - it should technically be able to re-create exact gameplay of HL1?

I thought the problem with HLdM SOurce was that it looked exactly the frigging same and they ruined the maps.
What amkes you say its based off quake engine?
Downloading HLDM and source to check differences.

Holy crap IE8 beta is fubar, it keeps moving text on different lines.

Gabe Newel was given a Quake based code called Gold Src when he set off to make HL.
read
Source is a modification of Gold Src and Source07 is a modification of Source.

From what I read there, Valve modified the Quake engine to create the goldsrc engine.
Coukldn't find anything that say or suggests source is a mod of goldsrc, maybe I am just too drunk.

keefy wrote:Faster movement.
Flying about at super insane speeds enabling you dodge the over powered RPG if quick enough.
Shooting through walls
Dummy rockets as well as guided
Less bugs
Using custom player models so others can see them too
Slams that work
snarks


YEah HLDM is shit NOT

AG right?

Jelly Fox wrote:

keefy wrote:Faster movement.
Flying about at super insane speeds enabling you dodge the over powered RPG if quick enough.
Shooting through walls
Dummy rockets as well as guided
Less bugs
Using custom player models so others can see them too
Slams that work
snarks


YEah HLDM is shit NOT

AG right?

yeap





HL1 was going to be based off of Quake 2 but they decided to scrap it and go with a heavily modified version of the Quake 1 engine, dubbed GoldSrc

No what I described is HLDM which is what AG is based off there are veruy few differences between aG and HLDM.

HLDM:source feels totally different after playing both, for 1 source version kills you if you fire gauss at floor to gauss jump most of the time, 2 it feels way faster, probably due to units being different sizes in the 2 engines cant be certain though as i aint a mapper.

HL1 more appropriately was in development between the time of Quake/Quake2 as such they had the quake engine to work off of and adding things from quake2 as well as their own. I never heard the term gold source until Source came out, then they started talking about HL1 as gold source. Same as kids who call HL1 1.6 which is CS and has nothing to do with HL1 since CS is a mod built on the HL1 engine.

As far as BM, I really don't know its taken them 4 years to get to where they are. It will be cool to play the single player once. But the reality is all the old HLDM players are hyping up BM not so much because of reality but more out of hope that it will be what they wanted HL2 to be. Personally I wish for neither. HLDM/AG/HLE/OZ/Bubble/Sevs/WTFE were buggy, had issues and were not balanced I have gone back and tried them in the last year or so and I do miss some aspects but certainly not all. Although the whole game had one amazing factor, that was the tau cannon and long jump. But HL2DM took things to a whole new level with physics, be it cooking nades, fast balls, or a toilet to your head nothing could be more awesome and there is simply no way IMO you can in your right mind say that those things are a distraction. They are not a distraction they are the focus of the game. They are what sets it apart from every other cookie cutter FPS out there. They are what make the play ingenious. People in HL2DM do not just point and click they really have to think. They can use physics as shielding, as a tool to get somewhere, to block things or create traps, or as a weapon to kill. HLDM just did not have things that dynamic.

If BM were to keep the physics of HL2, make it a much more polished game and incorporate the weapons of HL1 as well it may be a very interesting game. But if they just copy HL1 well I suppose I will try it but I do not think it will impress me.

I have a dream of a game where I can use a gravity gun, a tau cannon and a portal gun all on the same map. Now that would be awesome, but this black mesa stuff just trying to bring back the past bores me. Its the future we are suppose to get more advanced more complicated not rehash the past, that is what the movie industry and id software does and that is why they suck.

Also as with all games it really will not just be what they can do but how they polish it. HL2 Pro is a great example on paper it seems great you get the tau and lj on top of HL2 weapons in practice its just not good.

i think BM is simply an ambiguous portfolio. nothing more. it's development put to use to show off abilities. not abilities put to use to make development.
i don't agree about dmpro tho. this is a work in progress and clearly one that is there for development's sake. and that we should support.

I think it will be fun to play, but without the physics it will be hard to keep coming back I think. I do know one thing, Paul (the coder) will create a very polished game. He is a really good programmer.

you get rid of the phyics then it will be just like every other game out there.

BM looks awesome, but I don't think its multiplayer will be that great.