The Obama Deception - HL2DMU Forum Archive

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-13 18:45:38

Alex Jones is a nut. I could have told you who Obama was and is: a far leftist Marxist Lawyer creep who is only concerned about equality and pay back for the poor.
His associations with radicals like Ayers and Wright bear this out.
He is a conman.
He is President ACORN/Black Liberation Theology.
He doesn't have clue what he is doing.
He has no experience leading anything.

Alex Jones is also a conman, stringing along a lot of false horsesh*t, half truths, important sounding sound bites, and images that add up to nothing at all.
Last time it was Big Oil and before that it was a European Cartel/Bilderburg.
Now it is Wall Street.
What paranoid conspiratorial nonsense.

Freetux

2009-03-13 19:12:49

The Argumentalizer wrote:Alex Jones is a nut. I could have told you who Obama was and is: a far leftist Marxist Lawyer creep who is only concerned about equality and pay back for the poor.

Yeah imagine someone wanting people to be equal and to help the less fortunate, what a cunt

L2k

2009-03-13 19:18:45

Freetux wrote:Yeah imagine someone wanting people to be equal and to help the less fortunate, what a cunt

You forgot to add at other hard working peoples expense.

Freetux

2009-03-13 19:21:03

L2k wrote:
Freetux wrote:Yeah imagine someone wanting people to be equal and to help the less fortunate, what a cunt
You forgot to add at other hard working peoples expense.

That kind of goes without saying..

This thread is going to get messy soon, I'm out

L2k

2009-03-13 19:23:30

Freetux wrote:This thread is going to get messy soon, I'm out

and am following you out the door!

keefy

2009-03-13 19:48:21

Jesse Ventura states the obvious at the begining.

Walking Target

2009-03-13 19:55:48

Yeah, I look forward to locking this one.

Being a foreigner, I am neither republican or democrat, but I do believe each president deserves time to show us what he is made of.

On a semi-related note, is anyone else investing money in the stock market right now? It is a scary time to do it, but I really think there is money to made out there right now.

Va|iums

2009-03-13 20:58:45

The Argumentalizer wrote:Alex Jones is a nut. I could have told you who Obama was and is: a far leftist Marxist Lawyer creep who is only concerned about equality and pay back for the poor.
His associations with radicals like Ayers and Wright bear this out.
He is a conman.
He is President ACORN/Black Liberation Theology.
He doesn't have clue what he is doing.
He has no experience leading anything.

Alex Jones is also a conman, stringing along a lot of false horsesh*t, half truths, important sounding sound bites, and images that add up to nothing at all.
Last time it was Big Oil and before that it was a European Cartel/Bilderburg.
Now it is Wall Street.
What paranoid conspiratorial nonsense.

Divinity and Impala, why don't you do us all a favor and keep inflammatory politics out of HL2DM U. I go to this sight to enjoy gaming gossip and talk, not get mixed up in, hatred, arguements and racism that all follow politics. Seriously Impala you look exactly like the Bush hating bots of 2005-09'. Your mindless hatred and arbitrary vile words you spew are as baseless and annoying as the far left liberals I've had to listen to for eight years. Wake up. To claim a man who grauated from Columbia and Harvard Law School and was essentially involved in politics his whole life has no idea what he's doing is absurd. Even if he was a clueless puppet dolt like George W. is the President can still operate effectively because of elite set of advisors and presidential cabinet that surround him that comes with the job. And yes, to finish it off politicians in the grande scheme of things are nothing more then puppets, decisions they make can only go so far, and the kind of decisions they make have already been predetermined for them by influences that the common man will never know.

Va|iums

2009-03-13 21:05:55

And yes I've watched all of a Alex Jones' documentaries including this one, alot of it is on to something, and alot of it is also sensationalist crap whipped up to garner attention in the fashion Michael Savage or Keith Olbermann sensationilize and half truth things to make them more interesting.

ninojman

2009-03-13 21:06:54

If Obama really makes you mad then you should...........

Throw a shoe at him

CellarDweller

2009-03-13 21:40:35

Walking Target wrote:On a semi-related note, is anyone else investing money in the stock market right now? It is a scary time to do it, but I really think there is money to made out there right now.

yes, i never really stopped tbh. but i'm talking my 401k, mutual funds and such. not day trading. i was flipping out when my employer announced that i was going to be "forced" to sell my current portfolio of mutual funds and buy a single "retirement target date" fund instead. but enough people raised hell, so i can at least ride out my current situation w/o changing from an orange to an apple.

realistically, i don't see that i have a choice. the market is a long term investment. if i had sold my funds at the first drop in the markets and rolled them into an ira... maybe i would have saved some losses. but im pretty sure most ira's are similar to 401k's in that they too are a series of choices in the mutual funds sector.

i remember the days of certificates of deposit (CD's) that paid decent interest. same with savings accounts or moneymarket accounts. what happened to those days? that troubles me greatly. there is NO incentive to save. the system works against you in that regard. a few years back, you could "ladder" CD's of various interest rates and maturity dates into a 10 year plan that would practically guarantee you a better than 6% return on your initial savings. those days are gone. the markets are intended to be "investment", which historically cycles up and down. its not intended to be a sole retirement vehicle. people need incentives to save in order to have diversified retirement options.

seriously, its like someone is forcing me to accept "their" vision of what my retirement options should be. wtf is up with that?

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-13 22:19:37

Valiums: "Divinity and Impala, why don't you do us all a favor and keep inflammatory politics out of HL2DM U. I go to this sight to enjoy gaming gossip and talk, not get mixed up in, hatred, arguements and racism that all follow politics. Seriously Impala you look exactly like the Bush hating bots of 2005-09'. Your mindless hatred and arbitrary vile words you spew are as baseless and annoying as the far left liberals I've had to listen to for eight years. Wake up. To claim a man who grauated from Columbia and Harvard Law School and was essentially involved in politics his whole life has no idea what he's doing is absurd."

Don't read it. I dont care why you come here. That's your deal.
AND-To claim a man who graduated from Yale and Harvard Business School and was essentially involved in politics his whole life has no idea what he's doing is absurd."

Guess who that is?
My hatred is not mindless. Obama is a Leftist/Socialist/Marxist and i darned tootin i hate them.

Walking Target

2009-03-13 22:25:21

Yeah, as long as you are not retiring anytime soon, this correction will actually create more wealth for consistent investors. Being forced to change investments now into something "safer" is the worst thing you can do IMO, since you are simply locking in your losses and locking yourself out of buying at these cheaper prices. Don't let anyone do that to you, that's fear driven behavior, and just guarantees failure.

I just dropped a few thousand into stocks that have taken a massive beating. High risk, high potential reward, we shall see if it pays off.

badinfluence

2009-03-13 22:36:12

If I had a decent amount of money, I would invest $500 or so into the stock market. I'd find those shitty companies that are going to rebound and invest in them. 2x, 3x, or even 4x reward. That'd be the way to go.

CellarDweller

2009-03-13 22:42:37

my next $2k is going towards a fire resistant gun safe and a CMMG AR-15.

but i continue to contribute the max to my 401K funds.

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2009-03-13 22:51:24

ninojman wrote:If Obama really makes you mad then you should...........

Throw a shoe at him

http://www.sockandawe.com/
DO IT!

L2k

2009-03-13 22:51:40

CellarDweller wrote:my next $2k is going towards a fire resistant gun safe and a CMMG AR-15.

With the way things are going, that could be a life saving investment right there.

Va|iums

2009-03-13 23:21:22

The Argumentalizer wrote:Valiums: "Divinity and Impala, why don't you do us all a favor and keep inflammatory politics out of HL2DM U. I go to this sight to enjoy gaming gossip and talk, not get mixed up in, hatred, arguements and racism that all follow politics. Seriously Impala you look exactly like the Bush hating bots of 2005-09'. Your mindless hatred and arbitrary vile words you spew are as baseless and annoying as the far left liberals I've had to listen to for eight years. Wake up. To claim a man who grauated from Columbia and Harvard Law School and was essentially involved in politics his whole life has no idea what he's doing is absurd."

Don't read it. I dont care why you come here. That's your deal.
AND-To claim a man who graduated from Yale and Harvard Business School and was essentially involved in politics his whole life has no idea what he's doing is absurd."

Guess who that is?
My hatred is not mindless. Obama is a Leftist/Socialist/Marxist and i darned tootin i hate them.

Well hey it's better if someone just admits they hate leftists and therefore hates Barack Obama instead of throwing up wild and baseless accusations that he has no experience leading or doesn't know what he's doing which is subjective... If you really want to impress me on claims of Marxism and socialism point me out to specific votes or measures that he has supported that fall in line with Marxist theorum. I don't care if you hate him, I do care when somebody throws up tired inflammotory language.

keefy

2009-03-13 23:29:45

Politics can be funny
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmoUFlnDcsc
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fllGNdIbN0
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwi5ALyAa5s
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT34ldI82ws

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-13 23:31:59

Obama has: Never run a business, Never been a manager, never been an executive, Never been held a leadership slot anywhere and his life.
I was just stating the fact.

But you can love him.
I'll pass.

Va|iums

2009-03-13 23:52:16

The Argumentalizer wrote:Obama has: Never run a business, Never been a manager, never been an executive, Never been held a leadership slot anywhere and his life.
I was just stating the fact.

But you can love him.
I'll pass.

President of the Harvard Law Review, one of the most prestigious collegiete elite leadership positions you can attain almost anywhere in the world. Community Organizer-Leadership position, State Legislature 1997-2004-Leadership Position, United States Senator-Leadership position, President of the United States since January 2009-Leadership position, try harder Impala, thanks.

s0iz

2009-03-14 00:43:34

Well I don't know what's the mistery of it. I think it's pretty obvious that politicians return favors to those who financed their campaign.

Divinity

2009-03-14 00:50:04

I hope Obama turns out to be an OK cat and turns America's frown upside down I have nothing against him there is no racism involved here I don't mind seeing a black, white, yellow, red, or brown president as long as their shit is legit.

Hey we're all cousins afterall let's be friends.

Link

L2k

2009-03-14 01:19:10

Divinity wrote: as long as their shit is legit.

That will unfortunately never happen.

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-14 03:33:00

I guess you misconstrue the definition of leader and leadership.
None of those are remotely leadership roles. Not any that count. State legislator?!??
He edited a law review magazine?!?!

How about this for Marxism: Universal Health Care, which is code for Gubbmint MONOPOLY rationed care.
Obama/ACORN vs The Bank of America- suing on the accusation of redline lending (sane lending) forcing Banks to fork over money to community moonbat agitators.
His relationships with Communist buddies Mike Clonsky and William "the Bomber"Ayers.
His desertation on Saul Alinksky a socialist activist.
His use of the Cloward-Piven Strategy-http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/grou ... grpid=6967
The Che Guevara posters in some of his election offices.
His constant drumbeat about "Failed Policies" which he means capitalism
His general Far Leftism

badinfluence

2009-03-14 05:15:20

Can valiums and impala just talk in this thread?

This is pretty funny.

Trompe-la-Mort

2009-03-14 05:30:13

I like him.

Walking Target

2009-03-14 06:22:27

The Argumentalizer wrote:How about this for Marxism: Universal Health Care

It actually works quite well where I am from. Much better than here, where the private insurance companies and medical industry have you by the short and curlies. I am sure they would find a way to fuck it up if they tried to implement it though. I do wonder where all our tax dollars go. Education and healthcare are pretty jacked up.

L2k

2009-03-14 06:47:11

Walking Target wrote: I do wonder where all our tax dollars go.

To the financiers of our government, the elite bankers if you will.

Va|iums

2009-03-14 07:24:06

The Argumentalizer wrote:I guess you misconstrue the definition of leader and leadership.
None of those are remotely leadership roles. Not any that count. State legislator?!??
He edited a law review magazine?!?!

How about this for Marxism: Universal Health Care, which is code for Gubbmint MONOPOLY rationed care.
Obama/ACORN vs The Bank of America- suing on the accusation of redline lending (sane lending) forcing Banks to fork over money to community moonbat agitators.
His relationships with Communist buddies Mike Clonsky and William "the Bomber"Ayers.
His desertation on Saul Alinksky a socialist activist.
His use of the Cloward-Piven Strategy-http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/grou ... grpid=6967
The Che Guevara posters in some of his election offices.
His constant drumbeat about "Failed Policies" which he means capitalism
His general Far Leftism

LFMAO State legislaturers are not leadership postions? I don't have time to explain specifics of a state legislature because I'm about to go to a party so I'll put it in laymans terms since that's all you can handle anyway. A state legislature's job is just about EXACTLY like a U.S. Representitive in the house of Congress. The work they do is less visible and not federal, meaning less news coverage and deemed of "smaller" consequence, but they log 60-100 hour work weeks with a 10-20+ full time staffed office with endless speeches, meeting with business leaders, city leaders all working to fix your local roads, fix your local sewage problems, fix your local schools and finding men to come pick up the 20+ cases of beer cans that your probably leave at your doorstep every tough Monday night. AND the HARVARD LAW REVIEW IS THE MOST CITED LAW REVIEW in the United States, cited by federal judges, district judges, and the U.S. F'N Supreme Court occasionally, the Harvard Law Review has a huge impact that an average person like you could have no comprehension of. Maybe when I get back I'll write a 2 page long post on the impact of the Harvard Law Review, actually on second thought for the sake of all the nice people here I won't do that. And I'll get to your other sensational claims tomorrow. GG Impala, just gg..

Sacrifist

2009-03-14 07:40:03

The Argumentalizer wrote:I guess you misconstrue the definition of leader and leadership.
None of those are remotely leadership roles. Not any that count. State legislator?!??
He edited a law review magazine?!?!

How about this for Marxism: Universal Health Care, which is code for Gubbmint MONOPOLY rationed care.
Obama/ACORN vs The Bank of America- suing on the accusation of redline lending (sane lending) forcing Banks to fork over money to community moonbat agitators.
His relationships with Communist buddies Mike Clonsky and William "the Bomber"Ayers.
His desertation on Saul Alinksky a socialist activist.
His use of the Cloward-Piven Strategy-http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/grou ... grpid=6967
The Che Guevara posters in some of his election offices.
His constant drumbeat about "Failed Policies" which he means capitalism
His general Far Leftism

You and I have talked alot about politics so I wont get into much here, but I am all for Universal Health Care as long as it is properly implemented. The current system is retarded. Why would someone pay 25% of their paycheck for health care? That is currently what it would cost me at my current employer and they are a very large corporation. 25% dude. Id rather risk it and go without health care completely.

Wanna know how screwed up the system is? If shit hit the fan and I was forced to go to the hospital for something that would give me a huge bill to pay, I would be allowed, through my current hospital, to use funding from them or (the taxpayer) to pay for 80% of my bills. Now, are you sure that this current system is the proper one? I technically would be getting more handouts in the current system then if there was Universal Health Care and probably costing the taxpayer even more $.

As for your other listed things.....You watch Fox news to much.

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-14 09:36:24

This is a government that is 12 trillion in debt, can't NOT spend the Social Security fund, can't pass a spending bill without billions in pork, can't stop losing money on Amtrak, can't make a postal service profitable, can't balance a budget, can't secure our borders, cannot regulate Wall Street properly, that told us Fannie Mae was no problem...

And they are going to run HEALTH CARE!?!? LMAO!
Its absurd! Nancy and Harry and Barney and Obamey?

I think some folks are stoned out of their gourds if they think the Gubbmint is going to seize health care and provide timely care for less money.
Folks in Canada come here so they don't have to wait 4 months for an MRI.
Mexicans come here so they can get ANY decent health care.
When did it become fashionable and American for the gubbmint to provide everything for us?

Legislators are NOT executives and manage large groups of people and run day to day operations!
Leaders are like THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH and governors and city managers. They provide services and manage things.
Legislators are a club that shows up and spends your money.
Obama has not even shown any leadership whatsoever. He had Nancy write the porkulus bill!

It really doesnt matter what i say. Leftism has won.
Soon, we will look to the government for everything, live in a 600 square foot flat, wait months for care, have perpetual 12% unemployment and go deeper into debt.
Hope and Change! You asked for it, you shall receive it.

Hey Dude, i dont watch Fox News whatsoever! I don't even have a TV.
Just goes to show our education system turns out little social justice nuts who like socialism.

Divinity

2009-03-14 10:14:18

The Argumentalizer wrote: Folks in Canada come here so they don't have to wait 4 months for an MRI.
Mexicans come here so they can get ANY decent health care.

Honestly, how many Canadians do you actually know/heard of that came here for medical care when they get it FREE in their own country? I'm married to a Canadian and have family there and I've never heard 1 single complaint that was health-care related. YES their taxes are a bit higher I've noticed that when I made purchases there but fuck man I don't know what American in their right mind wouldn't pay it for what they're getting. quti sounding like a neo-conservative.

Haha gj using the poor of Mexico that come here cuz it's a river crossing or fence hop away. Obviously Mexico ain't taking care of their people that are in need and America isn't too concerned about it's borders so it's pure sense they would come here for a better life.

L2k

2009-03-14 10:40:13

can you guys go back to something more interesting like the fact that Obama has already gone back on his word, doing exactly the opposite of what he said he was going to do during his campaign for president. You know all those juicy parts where he convinced the majority of Americans he was going to be different and stay true to his word, lol what a joke that was.

Merlyn

2009-03-14 11:12:14

badinfluence wrote:Can valiums and impala just talk in this thread?

This is pretty funny.

I got love for both of them, but I think it's time to bust out the popcorn and watch 'em duke it out.

Va|iums

2009-03-14 11:23:13

L2k wrote:can you guys go back to something more interesting like the fact that Obama has already gone back on his word, doing exactly the opposite of what he said he was going to do during his campaign for president. You know all those juicy parts where he convinced the majority of Americans he was going to be different and stay true to his word, lol what a joke that was.

LOL ok now L2K wants some! OK I'm drunk but I'm still up to go blow for blow with anyone who wants a piece. L2K, Obama has specifically kept his promises during his presidential campaign so far with the exception of one issue. He has followed through and reversed 17 bush executive orders, out of the 200 some executive orders Obama promised to review over his 4 years of presidency. Prominantly he has kept his promise and reversed executive orders on stem cell research, gays in the military, environmental protection of the Pacific oceanic waters in the California bay area, abortion and Guantamo Bay and the use of off coast military torture. Every single one of these executive orders are monumental in the global eye and have kept true to Obama's specific word in campaign, the one promise he failed to specifically keep was a windfall tax on oil companies so far. You may ask well he promised to cut out earmarks completely but due to David Axelrod and his speechwriter he never once promised that specific event. Yes he has work to do and promises to live up to, and I'll be one of the first to call him out on the political blogs I go to.

L2k

2009-03-14 11:49:55

Come on Val, even I was willing to give this guy a chance. There are somethings he has stayed true to his word on but there are quite a few that he hasn't. The biggest one is the "I will pull all troops out of Iraq within 6 months of taking office" ( now he says more like 23 months) and that was a big issue to a lot of voters. There are many more I don't feel like quoting right now, but you seem to be up on this stuff so I'm sure you know what they are.

Ko-Tao

2009-03-14 13:08:24

To those thinking socialism works great in canada: The low end, get on the waiting list for anything important, watch retards visit a doctor whenever they sneeze medicare (and other, similar free handout functions of socialism) end up translating to around 50% income tax for anyone thats earning much above the poverty line.

The "free ride" isnt free at all.

badinfluence

2009-03-14 15:35:15

The Argumentalizer wrote:This is a government that is 12 trillion in debt, can't NOT spend the Social Security fund, can't pass a spending bill without billions in pork, can't stop losing money on Amtrak, can't make a postal service profitable, can't balance a budget, can't secure our borders, cannot regulate Wall Street properly, that told us Fannie Mae was no problem...

I agree that the debt keeps going up and they aren't fixing it, but it's only 10.9 trillion.

Walking Target

2009-03-14 19:00:57

Ko-Tao wrote:To those thinking socialism works great in canada: The low end, get on the waiting list for anything important, watch retards visit a doctor whenever they sneeze medicare (and other, similar free handout functions of socialism) end up translating to around 50% income tax for anyone thats earning much above the poverty line.

The "free ride" isnt free at all.

Yeah, I would believe it, but it isn't working any better over here. We are basically under the thumb of the private insurance companies. There are so many exclusions and so much fine print, you never know how much something is going to cost you. Try this recent example:

A few months back I took my wife to emergency. The hospital is "in her network", meaning it's fully covered by her insurance. So she goes in (takes about 5 hours to be seen for 15 mins by a doctor btw, 3 hrs in the waiting room and 2 hrs in a bed) and gets treated.

The billing comes from the hospital and the insurance pays it. Then we get a separate bill from the doctor that saw her for $1000.00. We didn't get to choose the doctor who saw her as it was the ER, plus she was working inside an "in network" hospital. It's total BS. We are still fighting the charge. So far the insurance company has randomly paid half of it.

Also, if you add the premiums we and our employers pay to the insurance companies and add it to out tax rate, I would hate to think how much it is actually costing us here. Health care here is a joke. I don't know the best solution, but something needs to be done.

o-dog

2009-03-14 19:10:43

America's current healthcare system is TERRIBLE. I pay $350 a month for a policy that doesn't even cover prescriptions. I was charged $400 for a cholesterol test recently. there are 47 million Americans who are screwed if they ever get sick or hurt because they don't have health insurance, and several millions more who are also screwed if they get sick or hurt because they are inadequately covered by their policies.

private insurance companies try to maximize profits (the logical and practical thing for any private corporation to do) by denying healthcare to as many people as they can. if you have a "preexisting condition" --- which I would say most people on this forum probably do since the list of insurance companies' "preexisting conditions" could wrap around dm_lockdown 15 times over --- good luck even getting an insurance company to cover you. even when you are covered they will look for any reason to deny your claims. this is how they maximize profits. the only people I can imagine being completely satisfied with this system are: CEO's of insurance companies, and insurance company lobbyists.

by the way, the US is 37th in the world in health care.

something's gotta change, I'm tired of these insurance companies playing games with our health and well being.

Va|iums

2009-03-14 21:03:57

L2k wrote:Come on Val, even I was willing to give this guy a chance. There are somethings he has stayed true to his word on but there are quite a few that he hasn't. The biggest one is the "I will pull all troops out of Iraq within 6 months of taking office" ( now he says more like 23 months) and that was a big issue to a lot of voters. There are many more I don't feel like quoting right now, but you seem to be up on this stuff so I'm sure you know what they are.

OK that is a good point, so he has reneged specifically on windfall taxes, pulling out the troops in 6 months and providing total transparency on all bills signed by his pen and relating to TARP, although he has gone FAR above the transparency Bush provided. You speak about Obama as if he's already finished and written off as a bad President, he's been in office 56 DAYS. One common thing I've noticed throughout most people throughout the political spectrum are the enormous expectations put on him, as if he's going be the single greatest modern U.S. President we've ever had, give it some time to flesh out, he's only just begun work on most of campaign promises and specifically health care.

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-14 21:26:45

Only 10.9 trillion? That was before the Porkulus Bill, the 410 billion dollar 8000 earmark (5.5 billion) omnibust spending bill and the next round, which includes 600 billion for Health care.
Obama is full of ****. He always get a slam in on the prior admin, saying we have been given false choices between science and morality. Truth is, Bush outlined every facet of both sides of the stem cell debate and laid down a moral line to be crossed. He made a decision. There was one or the other.
Obama makes NO decisions.
He ran he was not going to allow torture, yet Leon Panetta has said that he would do the same thing Bush did, sign an order to waterboard a few select high value targets.
And GITMO!?!?! WTF? Where is the common sense in closing Gitmo where they are and can be tried, and bringing those animals here?!?!?!
Obama claimed a responsible transparent NEW way of doing business YET has an enemies list and goes after Rush Limbaugh!?!?! How stupid!
On the Health Care, he has passed the whole thing to a study group, a group of folks in small groups coming up with ideas, like in HIGH SCHOOL!
He talks about change and appoints the Clinton admin II. And tax cheats!
His economic team is... GOLDMAN SACHS!!! Geithner from the FED/Goldman Sachs.
At this clip, there is a projection 9 trillion in new debt over ten years.
And every program in the current budget IS INCREASED EIGHT PER CENT!

I suggest Obama slash programs and spending, Fix the toxic mortgage problem, strengthen the SEC, Grab a line item veto and scrub all the pork, Get some more people into Treasury, stop attacking nobodies like Rush and Hannity, fire his idiot press Sec., find some folks who pay their taxes, table all the socialist change for now, and LEAD!!

My whole point was Obama is a LEFTIST, a far Leftist, therefore, he does not HAVE the equipment to govern from the center.
He is President ACORN and is of the same minds as socialist agitprop. No ex-President has ever had mentors like Ayers and Wright.
He is a radical and wants to change America from Land of Free (Liberty) to land of shared everything universal poverty/payback for injustice...

AND Obama is still the least experience President in History, including Bush, who made the Rangers a successful franchise and was two time Governor of Texas.

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-14 21:42:47

America's Health care is the finest in the world. Most all the newest drugs best drugs come from America. The high tech equipment mostly comes from here.
There ARE reasons its expensive. A few:
1. 14 Million illegals and countless others show up at the ER and are given free care. They don;t pay. The Hospitals go out of business and/or pass the cost to YOU, which passes it on to the Insurance companies.
2. Ridiculous Law Suits rewards which drive up malpractice insurance to 150,000/year for a specialist!
3. Government interference and regulations.
4. Medicare and Medicaid UNDER PAYMENT, passing it on to you.
5. FRAUD, which drives up costs.
6. Restrictive FDA regs that drive up the costs of new drugs.

The fix is not UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, but an Oregon basic care for the poor and a retooling of regulations and a limit to civil awards.
There is a disconnect between the reasons for the high costs and the solution put forth by Leftists.

ether

2009-03-14 22:03:34

Argumentalizer, man, I'm impressed. I wasn't expecting to find any red-pill people on an HL2 site. Anybody read the MarketTicker? Sinclair? ever heard of GATA?

The bottom line is this: the US is screwed. We are past the point of no return. Trillion is the new billion, and we are burning through those pretty quick now. Once the implosion of debt structures runs its course, we will have hyper-inflation. The middle class will be wiped out financially. The government will react like a cornered wounded animal to protect its interests, and it won't be pretty for those who love liberty. These kinds of financial catastrophes always end the same way: war and tyranny, perhaps civil war. I've been following this financial crisis for 9 years. People were talking about Fannie failing over 5 years ago, and most just laughed at it. People were talking about the rotting mass of credit default derivatives years ago. This was all known by anyone paying attention, and willfully ignored by regulators because everyone was making money hand over fist. If the average Joe understood how badly he is being raped right now, we would have riots on a daily basis.

The key is to get past the fact that republican/democrat is a false dichotomy. It's a way to divide us against ourselves. The real dichotomy is the privileged elite and the rest of us. We need to get rid of every one those SOBs in DC and start with a clean slate.

People are prepping for the worst. Quietly. I know many people who are quietly arming themselves and stockpiling necessities. A shit-storm is coming. Anger is building rapidly.

o-dog

2009-03-14 22:35:31

37th finest in the world, according to the WHO.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

France is #1.

yes, their taxes are higher. but they actually get something for their tax dollars. free healthcare, free tuition, good roads and infrastructure, and good public transportation. a very significant portion of our tax dollars goes to welfare for corporations and billionaire individuals, who are the last people that need government money. read Free Lunch by David Cay Johnston to find out just what is really happening with your tax dollars, you will be outraged.

SND

2009-03-14 23:09:11

whats up with people like impala they all seem to try and make shit up to prove their point or may be he is too blind. I can say for certain u guys are getting ripped of by your healthcare by insurance and drug companies you guys actually pay three times as much for drugs than the rest of the world because your government has not put a law limiting it and lobbyist do there most to stop anything that effect those companies profit which they have monopoly over the market.

But hey I don't know that much but all I know is what I see in documentaries and even if I gave a link someone like impala will just say the usual bs conspiracy.

I may pay high taxes but at least I know that if me or anyone in my family get ill our national heath service will be there and won't punish us for the size of our pockets. I don't care what anyone says you can't put a price on life and everyone deservers there chance to have healthcare to fight for it.

poconut

2009-03-14 23:33:30

Walking Target wrote: On a semi-related note, is anyone else investing money in the stock market right now? It is a scary time to do it, but I really think there is money to made out there right now.

Yeah, just put in 10k, already down 18% lolz. Oh well, I'm in for the long run.

ether

2009-03-14 23:41:20

The long run can be a long time. When the market crashed in 1929, it didn't return to the pre-crash level until the mid 1950's.

Va|iums

2009-03-15 00:06:10

Lol...you guys act like the sky is falling and a new civil class war will emerge and the country will be destroyed. Let's get honest here, the U.S and western economies are on puppet strings, the economy with the jumpstart that Obama is providing will recover and get him re-elected in 2012 and the recovery will continue well into his second term. None of this stuff is coincidence, it's all puppet shows and smokescreens to divide and distract willing morons who regurgitate half baked talking points from FOX, CNN and political blogs like Impala and myself. Make no mistake as the global population continues to skyrocket toward uncontrallable levels mass enslavement or destruction will ensue, but this will not happen for at least another 20-50 years.

badinfluence

2009-03-15 00:53:28

Va|iums wrote:Lol...you guys act like the sky is falling and a new civil class war will emerge and the country will be destroyed. Let's get honest here, the U.S and western economies are on puppet strings, the economy with the jumpstart that Obama is providing will recover and get him re-elected in 2012 and the recovery will continue well into his second term. None of this stuff is coincidence, it's all puppet shows and smokescreens to divide and distract willing morons who regurgitate half baked talking points from FOX, CNN and political blogs like Impala and myself. Make no mistake as the global population continues to skyrocket toward uncontrallable levels mass enslavement or destruction will ensue, but this will not happen for at least another 20-50 years.

Oh, good. I can die when I'm 40, or I can die when I'm 70.

DEATH-ANGEL

2009-03-15 02:05:05

No, we die in 2012.

Uncle Rico

2009-03-15 03:16:58

DEATH-ANGEL wrote:No, we die in 2012.

Exactly. Why do we even argue about this shit when it's all gonna be over soon?

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-15 04:34:04

SND wrote:whats up with people like impala they all seem to try and make shit up to prove their point or may be he is too blind. I can say for certain u guys are getting ripped of by your healthcare by insurance and drug companies you guys actually pay three times as much for drugs than the rest of the world because your government has not put a law limiting it and lobbyist do there most to stop anything that effect those companies profit which they have monopoly over the market.

But hey I don't know that much but all I know is what I see in documentaries and even if I gave a link someone like impala will just say the usual bs conspiracy.

I may pay high taxes but at least I know that if me or anyone in my family get ill our national heath service will be there and won't punish us for the size of our pockets. I don't care what anyone says you can't put a price on life and everyone deservers there chance to have healthcare to fight for it.

I wonder how many of those awesome new drugs come from American companies?
And what do you know about America, you live in Europe?
I guarantee every single person who thinks Gubbmint health care is great is below the age of 30.
There is not ONE case where the government provides better service or product for less money than the PRIVATE sector.
Not one. Most of you folks have been educated in a system run and controlled by liberals.
Even the debate is shallow. Are we talking about whether the health care is expensive or whether it is lousy!??!?
Ours is expensive because it offers the finest techniques, drugs, training, and equipment in the world.
Socialized Medicine offers universal care that rations supply to infinite demand. Long waits for Specialists and procedures are the norm. Socialized Medicine ALSO limits treatments. There are many things NOT covered and folks come here or to India for procedures.
I was posted in Germany for two years and talked to many folks about health care. They told me the old were screwed! That they had a tiered system that de-prioritizes the aged.

Documentary? How about FACTS.
The government allows the poor to get free health care and they do not reimburse completely.
We can fix health care without making it a Gubbmint run monopoly.

Here is the crux of my argument which nobody has even addressed and i ask again: Why on earth would anyone in the states believe Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Obama and company are competent to design and implement an efficient cost effective high care Health Care system?!?!?!?
Why? It doesn't make a lick of sense. Look at Social Security! Look at the CURRENT Debt?
What makes folks want the gubbmint to get within miles of Health Care?!?!?
Why would you want a government monopoly rather than choices.

Bottom line: I am for more cost efficient health care.
I believe it can be had without government run health care.
If anyone wants to debate this issue, there it is.
(and dont start with the lame Fox News/Dont watch Documentaries nonsense)

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-15 04:45:04

Socialist policies?
"WHO is the directing and coordinating authority for health within the United Nations system. It is responsible for providing leadership on global health matters, shaping the health research agenda, setting norms and standards, articulating evidence-based policy options, providing technical support to countries and monitoring and assessing health trends.

In the 21st century, health is a shared responsibility, involving equitable access to essential care and collective defence against transnational threats"

United Nations!??!
Socialism!??!
Notice: "WHO is the directing and coordinating authority for health within the United Nations system."
And "health is a shared responsibility"

READ it all again.

America ranked 37th!?!? What a JOKE. Just above Cuba!? LMAO!
Its the UN. They are worthless.
I wonder if O-Dog read exactly HOW these rankings are made???

The WHO findings are based NOT on the quality of care, but Life Expectancy, Percentage of GDP, and FAIRNESS.
Life Expectancy is based on many factors, many more than just the health system.
Fairness? The poor go the ER and get FREE CARE? Is that fair? Its FREE!

Also not taken into account whatsoever is this important thing: ALL countries with Socialized health Care Systems ALSO have a PRIVATE Sector health economy supported by the same citizens!??!!
Get my drift?
It means there is a Public sector that is measured in GDP and responsiveness and Life expectancy and whole other black market of private care. Under the table tips, secret appointments...
This is not measured.
In a monopoly system that rations supply to infinite demand, there is ALWAYS a secondary under the counter economy that augments it!
Where ever there is a market, money will flow!

The big question is can we reform the system to cost less and not turn it over to idiot gubbmint bureacrats.

Ko-Tao

2009-03-15 10:46:30

Uncle Rico wrote:
DEATH-ANGEL wrote:No, we die in 2012.
Exactly. Why do we even argue about this shit when it's all gonna be over soon?

This. 2012 is when the lizard people who control the world reveal their true forms, and all who behold them shall despair!

Pic extremely related.

Blasphemy

2009-03-15 13:07:49

Merlyn

2009-03-15 18:23:53

All of this makes me glad that I don't get worked up about politics (anymore), and that I can grow my own food organically and I live in Michigan where there's plenty of water. When the shit hits the fan, y'all will be wanting to know your local farmers.

two snails

2009-03-15 19:29:15

what is gubbmint? is that like spearmint?

Va|iums

2009-03-15 22:15:22

Merlyn wrote:All of this makes me glad that I don't get worked up about politics (anymore), and that I can grow my own food organically and I live in Michigan where there's plenty of water. When the shit hits the fan, y'all will be wanting to know your local farmers.

I envy people who can stay out of politics, as a person who ran on the ticket for awhile for college student vice pres I can safely say the political process contains the most dirty, evil things ever, BUT I LOVED IT!!!

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-15 22:31:41

Its unfortunate the political process is so fucked up, getting elected and all. Policy IS important though and something every American should be involved in. It is something that interests me greatly.
This is OUR country and government policy effects us all.

Government is not the solution to every problem we face, and politicians say shit to curry favor and your vote.
Trust but verify! When politicians say we can have free health universal health care, skepticism should kick in.
It is healthy to be skeptical of politicians.
Take a good hard look at government's track record and go slow.
Examine the alternatives and think outside the box.

CellarDweller

2009-03-15 23:19:54

Link

Sacrifist

2009-03-15 23:21:39

/end thread

badinfluence

2009-03-15 23:34:02

CellarDweller wrote:Video

"Real talk. Real talk. Real talk. Real talk."

Walking Target

2009-03-16 00:16:05

Oh man...

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-16 01:21:08

Congratulations. No serious flames! Incredible.

old time no.7

2009-03-16 17:39:26

The Argumentalizer wrote:When did it become fashionable and American for the gubbmint to provide everything for us?

Fashionable? It's not fashion, it's reaction. Maybe over reaction, but reaction nonetheless.
you wrote you don't have a tv, so maybe you don't see the panic going on around here, but people have lost confidence in big business.
When crisis happens you expect something to be done. Correct?
what annoys me about politicos is their hypocrisy.
democrats = republicans with a different coat of paint. all promises and little real action.
you name names on the one side of the aisle and absolve the previous administration?
the earmarks for federal spending are not just for democrats, they all want their dicks wet...
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/john-farrel ... =etRR-0306

what i expect from our government if a certain amount of regulation to ensure as level a playing field as possible. when greed gets in the way of integrity am i supposed to remain complacent in the face of corruption? i agree financial privitization is the wrong road to follow.
i prefer to let the market decide who should fail or who should contiue to operate.
however the market is skewed to keep the the illegally informed ahead of the regulators. the madoff scandal prooved how toothless and inept the SEC was and continues to be...can we agree the ones in power will contine to remain their in this two party system?

real estate is finally undergoing a necesary correction, money as cheap as it ever has been. i'm hopefully buying a house and investing in my future in the coming months. i've opened another money market account and a 529 college savings account for my daughter. so i'm buying back into the system for the long term and hope i don't get burned.

i watched ben bernanke 60 minutes inteview lastnight and hope that hit harvard/MIT brain can stabalize our economy sooner than latter, because he even sounded a little unsure.

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-16 23:21:01

If we had a competent government, with a balance budget, 5. 5 Billion in earmarked projects would not be an issue at all. The Country is 11 TRILLION in Debt.
It is Non-Discretionary spending that is killing us.

When i said it is fashionable to look to the government for everything, i was really talking about Universal Health Care.
It would be 100s of Billions MORE Non-discretionary spending.
Also, we have HUD loans and SS and Madicare, Medicaid, Headstart...
The Democrats are not only talking about Health, they are suggesting FREE COLLEGE.

My main point is that Gubbmint CAUSED the Housing Bubble. Politicians protected Fannie Mae, Wrote the CRA, added quotas... They pushed 100% No Qual, No Down Adjustable rate mortgages and pushed banks (along with Lawsuits from ACORN) into "community lending (Sub Prime). They pushed Fannie MAe into the Sub Prime market.
They were in charge of regulating Wall Street and Derivative Trading/ Default Swaps.

Gubbmint created the Housing bubble that popped like an atom bomb.
Gubbmint created the environment for this mess.
Now they are going to throw money (our money) at it to fix it.
And THE SAME government is telling us we MUST let them take over HEALTH CARE?!?!?!

Its fucking phenomenally absurd.
And some folks here think its a good idea.
And some folks think Harvard Grads are all sensible and competent!

badinfluence

2009-03-17 18:24:59

What is gubbmint?

Divinity

2009-03-17 19:32:25

I assume it's ebonics for "government"

Sacrifist

2009-03-17 21:24:53

The Argumentalizer wrote:If we had a competent government, with a balance budget

We basically did 10 years ago

Had GW and his dorks not gone off Warmongering we wouldnt be in debt up to our eyeballs.

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-18 03:11:46

You mean after Military was slashed had to be built up after 911 and a Republican Congress passed the first budget to go backwards in 60 years in 1994?
You mean when we were 6 Trillion in the hole, before 911?
How about paying for Afghanistan? Is that ok?
And Clinton's phony surplus?

Bush with a Republican Congress added 2 trillion to the debt in 6 years after 911, Katrina...
Bush and a Democrat Congress has added 2 trillion in 2 years!
And Obama has added almost 2 trillion in months of spending.

So, don't go playing the spending game like Obama is a fiscal conservative.
I don't see you commenting on Obama, just BUSHBUSHBUSH...

Anyone complaining about spending money for defense and solving the Al Qida and Saddam problem without mentioning Obama and Nancy and Harry and their ridiculous clip is just a leftist hack in my book.
Bush Derangement syndrome.

Walking Target

2009-03-18 05:33:01

What would you say were Bush's biggest mistakes as President? Or did he not make any?

[KBH]Tazzer

2009-03-18 06:08:26

Walking Target wrote:What would you say were Bush's biggest mistakes as President? Or did he not make any?

way to many to list............

Ko-Tao

2009-03-18 07:09:32

Hard to comment much on obama since hes only been in a couple months. Bush, otoh, had 2 terms to pile up the mistakes and general retardation, so its hardly surprising that it gets mentioned often when political debates come up.

A big lol for "the saddam problem". What problem was that, exactly? The supposed wmds ended up failing to exist, and i dont recall iraq doing anything to north america- unless of course were talking about oil, specifically their control of it and our addiction to it.

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-18 07:20:13

Typically traveling right over the history of Saddam and Desert Storm, his ceasefire, his breaking UN sanctions, the fact he was the no.1 security threat in the world.

And Bush? Did you mention Twin Towers falling, 20,000 terrorists trained in Afghanistan, WMD that were DOCUMENTED by the UN that are to this day unaccounted for?
Did you mention a Recession as he came in, Katrina?

Conveniently left out to enhance your point!

There is a lot of misinformation and forgetfulness about what Bush dealt with.
Not to puff him up as great and not ignoring his spending, but this stuff is about IRAQ is ignorant.

You don't want to give ANY credit where it is due, but i wait for the day Obama has been there long enough for folks to realize this guy is a leftist idiot who is just trying to change America into his leftist vision.

Ayers, Wright, Rezko... should have giving folks pause, but NOOOOO!

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-18 07:25:15

That's it for me on this thread. The prevailing ideology in America now is Socialism and Gubbmint solutions.
Folks are caught up in blah blah... I'm not gonna try to persuade folks in American value. That should have been taught already.
DC is a failure.
If folks thought of the Gubbmint as a company, they would all be in jail!

Enjoy Obama! if you voted for him, enjoy.
You'll see.

DEATH-ANGEL

2009-03-18 08:25:48

I voted Ron Paul. He foresaw all of the countries current failures and had/has logical solutions for most of the issues.

Trompe-la-Mort

2009-03-18 09:22:01

I think Bush's foreign policy will be ultimately remembered as a good thing and not the unequivocal evil the rabble has been associating with it. The 2003 invasion was a culmination of events spanning over the entire decade of the 90's. The U.N. was being made more and more a mockery by passing resolution after resolution that amounted to nothing, sent to search in dummy bunkers or dead ends, or just barred from carrying out inspections. I think that even if 911 hadn't occured, another Iraqi conflict was still just a question of when. But let's say it's a year and a half after 911 and you are assessing the threat. You know Saddam deceives inspectors, gives $20,000 checks to suicide bombers families etc. what do you do as President? Do you wait for another pointless resolution to be shat on? And at what expence if he has biological or chemical agents? Even if you Monday-morning quarterback it and say..BUT NO WMDS! go ahead and wind back the clock and play back the world sans any Iraq conflict. So does Iraq have chemical weapons today in 2009? Chemical & bio agents were found, just not in the militarized or ready state we had believed.

Of course W. made some big mistakes. The whole Mission Accomplished fiasco was probably the worst PR decision of his presidency and just gave the wrong image.

But what do we have to look forward in the future of all this? Iraq will in all likelyhood turn out to be a democratic nation, probably the best in the Palestinian world and a model for it. Iraqis won't have to worry about Bathists sticking them in an acid-tub or literally electrocuting their balls underground anymore. There won't be anymore wondering about what there government is hiding from the 'free world'. And basically, if there is any single man to thank for all of this it will be the man who has taken all the heat for it up till now, George W. Bush.

Sacrifist

2009-03-18 10:54:20

The Argumentalizer wrote:You mean after Military was slashed had to be built up after 911 and a Republican Congress passed the first budget to go backwards in 60 years in 1994?

We do NOT need a large military. Our military should be strong on our borders and nothing more. There is no reason to go warmongering in other countries. We have accomplished nothing in this war.

The Argumentalizer wrote: You mean when we were 6 Trillion in the hole, before 911?

Got any links to back that up?

The Argumentalizer wrote: And Clinton's phony surplus?

I guess all the money he was making everyone was phony too? The stock market loved him, so did my wallet.

The Argumentalizer wrote: Bush with a Republican Congress added 2 trillion to the debt in 6 years after 911, Katrina...

Because they were behind on everything, the mortgage crysis, Katrina (did a great job on this one didnt they lol)

The Argumentalizer wrote: And Obama has added almost 2 trillion in months of spending.

I dont really care how much he spends because it is to early to tell if it's going to work. Do I really like that much spending? Hell no, but Im curious to see the outcome. The only reason Im not all up in arms about his spending is because he is spending it on the USA!!! Not some stupid country that nobody in the states gives a rats ass about. Im more conservative then liberal, but the republicans are no longer my party. They are not conservative. They spend damn near as much as the Dems, but they spend it on shit nobody cares about like wars in the middle east. If it was up to me, Id rid us of Dems and Repubs all together.

[EYE] Valar

2009-03-18 16:59:16

DAMN RIGHT. fuck parties and who did what and where they went to school. You people should have someone to look after you and for once take care of his own country and not some corporation or whatthefuckever.
i hope Obama works it out but it's sure as hell too early in the game to pass judjement and besides, like it is everywehre in the world - most of the power is in the hands of the citizens. you vote by being idle or active. activism can be many things and we all know that well.

A citizen of Israel
51st State of the USA lol

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-18 17:17:51

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Too busy to google?

"We do NOT need a large military. Our military should be strong on our borders and nothing more. There is no reason to go warmongering in other countries. We have accomplished nothing in this war."

Yeah? What about open shipping lanes? A Navy? Offensive ability?
Thats a lot of Ron Paul Pie in the Sky bullshit.
We are such a successful nation because we hunkered dowm behind out borders. Yeah uh ha.

Surplus? LMAO. Where was it? In the Treasury?~?~ Vaporware.

You dont like the War on Terror. BOOHOO.
You think you could have done better in LA? Last i checked, the first responders in Loiusiana are all Democrats!
Fucking figures.

provost

2009-03-19 03:20:57

The Argumentalizer wrote: You dont like the War on Terror. BOOHOO.
You think you could have done better in LA? Last i checked, the first responders in Loiusiana are all Democrats!
Fucking figures.

Look at us fucking canadians, no army, no armed citizen, we dont even lock our doors!
we barely feel anything from the economic crysis, we are not at war, we are loved and welcomed in any country, and no hospital fees in quebec, owned much?

Yeah keep your war on terror dude, its really working out for you.
Oh and - found Ben Laden yet?

[EYE] Valar

2009-03-19 03:39:54

did i tell you i love you recently?

Freetux

2009-03-19 03:49:04

.conflict wrote:
The Argumentalizer wrote: You dont like the War on Terror. BOOHOO.
You think you could have done better in LA? Last i checked, the first responders in Loiusiana are all Democrats!
Fucking figures.
Look at us fucking canadians, no army, no armed citizen, we dont even lock our doors!
we barely feel anything from the economic crysis, we are not at war, we are loved and welcomed in any country, and no hospital fees in quebec, owned much?

Yeah keep your war on terror dude, its really working out for you.
Oh and - found Ben Laden yet?

Nice one conflict

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-19 03:54:24

Nothing like freeloading off the states for your defense!
Ever heard of shipping lanes?
Navies?
A functional ally military force?

When the Inuit attack and take over, you're on your own!

[KBH]Tazzer

2009-03-19 04:33:00

we are supposed to defend "our" land and that means our troops actually being "here" not
elsewhere, ever, with a big fat period.

btw...i own my own small business.........i made good money when Clinton was in office....
didnt like him cause if he will cheat on his wife why wouldn't he cheat us? lol....when Bush came
to office my money went down down down......now we have Obama and i dont know yet what will happen...
but Ron Paul had my vote as well.

Va|iums

2009-03-19 04:43:33

The Argumentalizer wrote:Nothing like freeloading off the states for your defense!
Ever heard of shipping lanes?
Navies?
A functional ally military force?

When the Inuit attack and take over, you're on your own!

LOL! Canada is a freeloader? The Canada and U.S. are the worlds largest trading partners and it wasn't for Canada throughout all these decades of massive trading, importing, exporting ect we would not be the global superpower we are today. They pay for military protection in many different ways, and quite handsomely they pay I might add. I mean look I don't exactly love those filthy bacon eating hockey lovers but hey, money talks man!!

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-19 05:19:28

Just on defense.

[EYE] Valar

2009-03-19 06:01:25

and i thought the new Millennium was the age of the free man, the Citizen of the Globe. isn't it time we let down our stupid flags and start thinking more globally.
i mean...you have thousands of years of history to show you exactly what it all means, what flags are really all about, patriotism and the like. can't you see this is all one big bullshit made by HAS BEEN POWERS in order to separate YOU from your brothers and sisters of the SAME KIND? That of Human nature not that of color or status.
Bush was a twat. you should be overjoyed by the fact this sad excuse of anything is no longer governing your country. what WILL be with Obama, well i guess no one knows now do they? but i'll tell you what i DO know : I can tell BLIND HATRED from miles away and dissing someone who has only just arrived reminds me of.. erm..well some new player who some ppl thought he was someone else and prejudged him for no reason and YOU defended him. feel me brother?

provost

2009-03-19 06:46:32

The Argumentalizer wrote:When the Inuit attack and take over, you're on your own!

They already did, 'took a piece of land no one wanted and called it Nunavut. Besides, if anyone would threaten to invade Canada, we would simply be nice to them, invite them over and give them all citizenship.

NOW WE CAN TAX THEM, BAHA! FUCKERS!

Sacrifist

2009-03-21 09:06:49

Mandatory youth service: HR1388 (The Give Act)

This bill is a nightmare and will be the start of a new revolution. It totally goes against the 1st and 13th amendment. It already passed in the House on a 3 to 1 margin. If this thing goes through, this nation is gonna change for the worse.

L2k

2009-03-21 10:22:10

Sacrifist wrote:Mandatory youth service: HR1388 (The Give Act)

This bill is a nightmare and will be the start of a new revolution. It totally goes against the 1st and 13th amendment. It already passed in the House on a 3 to 1 margin. If this thing goes through, this nation is gonna change for the worse.

believe me that is just the beginning of many things Obama is going to do (or try) that is going to change this country for the worse.

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-21 19:46:38

I'm sick of his sorry ass already. At this point, I'd be okay with Gore, Kerry, Dukakis instead.
The media didn't report the true Obama. He is a complete narcissist. And Far Left.
His head is full of half baked leftist nonsense.

What is REALLY scary about him is his consistent attacks on Free Markets, Banks, and Investments. Notwithstanding the current meltdown that is really the governments fault, not all business people, banks, and firms are crooks.
He even said he would try to dissuade young people from going into investments and banking and study SOMETHING USEFUL, like Engineering.

The current AIG matter is yet another example of what is in store for us from the Left.
The government was SUPPOSED to regulate credit markets and did not. They act to bailout AIG, which is a huge successful Insurance Co. with one very bad division. The employees SIGNED CONTRACTS. Congress wrote the loophole in and voted it! Obama signed the fucking thing!
Now, folks are fine to go off about these bonuses but for Congress to act outraged? Ridiculous! Fucking ludicrous. Chris "The Lying Weasel" Dodd WROTE THE AMENDMENT HIMSELF! And then claimed he didn't and the language was not there.

The fucking Bill was written by these assholes and passed and signed by Obama. DID THEY NOT FUCKING READ IT!??!!??
And now they are outraged?
And Obama is all choked up?

WWWTWTWTWTWTWTWFFFFFFFFFF.
We should be rid of the entire lot of them.
Does it occur to anyone that THE TAX PAYERS are INVESTED in AIG!!!! Do they weant their money back? AIG can MAKE money but not iff they are attacked by idiot Congress, have the rules changed in midgame and demonizing AIG to the point that they are getting death threats!

The leadership in DC is the most incompetent bunch this country has ever seen.
Maybe O'Bama can get to work instead of sending love messages to Iranian Mullahs, Making TARD jokes on Leno, and throwing parties.
The Moth****ER!

The Resident

2009-03-21 22:48:18

Sacrifist wrote:Mandatory youth service: HR1388 (The Give Act)

This bill is a nightmare and will be the start of a new revolution. It totally goes against the 1st and 13th amendment. It already passed in the House on a 3 to 1 margin. If this thing goes through, this nation is gonna change for the worse.

FYI
That bill was written back in 2007, and it would form a committee to do a pretty good number of things, a couple of which are to study whether mandatory public service is even feasible and what its effects would be. There is nothing in there that comes close to making it a reality. Remember it's a committee's job to evaluate ideas and weed out the bad ones. It also talks about setting up service learning programs in public schools that can't amount to more than yet more wasted time in class. Useful? Maybe not. Revolution-worthy? definitely not. Please get real and not blow it out to absurd FUD proportions.

Look at the text of the bill for yourself. See pages 43 and 283-285. http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/ ... 88_txt.pdf

In my opinion, the committee is most likely to find such a program too expansive and expensive for whatever benefit it might provide, especially when the whole "mandatory service program" is only a couple line items for study on an already ambitious agenda.

Pet peeve:
The President is not a king. He enforces laws, not write them (despite as much as Parties want you to believe otherwise, depending on who's office and how well they're doing). This is a matter for the Legislative branch, not the Executive branch. If someone doesn't like the bill, that's fine, but remember it's Congress doing it, so write your representatives, not the President.

Blasphemy

2009-03-21 22:50:08

.conflict wrote:
The Argumentalizer wrote: You dont like the War on Terror. BOOHOO.
You think you could have done better in LA? Last i checked, the first responders in Loiusiana are all Democrats!
Fucking figures.
Look at us fucking canadians, no army, no armed citizen, we dont even lock our doors!
we barely feel anything from the economic crysis, we are not at war, we are loved and welcomed in any country, and no hospital fees in quebec, owned much?

Yeah keep your war on terror dude, its really working out for you.
Oh and - found Ben Laden yet?

yes i found him! and by the way it's Bin* Laden.

badinfluence

2009-03-21 23:54:22

So, he's already elected. The time to complain about him is over. The only way to get him out of office is to impeach him or shoot him. You can take your pick. You can call your legislator to get him to vote against the bill, but other than that, complaining won't accomplish a thing.

Uncle Rico

2009-03-22 00:37:01

badinfluence wrote:complaining won't accomplish a thing.

Dude, we're talking about Impala here. It's what he does.

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-22 06:36:29

What kind of silly nonsense is that? They work for the people. What do you mean the time to criticize is over.
Are you stoned?
Wow, we are in deep shit.

The time to complain about our elected leaders is over!??!!?!

Sacrifist

2009-03-22 08:05:10

The Resident wrote:
Sacrifist wrote:Mandatory youth service: HR1388 (The Give Act)

This bill is a nightmare and will be the start of a new revolution. It totally goes against the 1st and 13th amendment. It already passed in the House on a 3 to 1 margin. If this thing goes through, this nation is gonna change for the worse.
FYI
That bill was written back in 2007, and it would form a committee to do a pretty good number of things, a couple of which are to study whether mandatory public service is even feasible and what its effects would be. There is nothing in there that comes close to making it a reality. Remember it's a committee's job to evaluate ideas and weed out the bad ones. It also talks about setting up service learning programs in public schools that can't amount to more than yet more wasted time in class. Useful? Maybe not. Revolution-worthy? definitely not. Please get real and not blow it out to absurd FUD proportions.

Look at the text of the bill for yourself. See pages 43 and 283-285. http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/ ... 88_txt.pdf

In my opinion, the committee is most likely to find such a program too expansive and expensive for whatever benefit it might provide, especially when the whole "mandatory service program" is only a couple line items for study on an already ambitious agenda.

Pet peeve:
The President is not a king. He enforces laws, not write them (despite as much as Parties want you to believe otherwise, depending on who's office and how well they're doing). This is a matter for the Legislative branch, not the Executive branch. If someone doesn't like the bill, that's fine, but remember it's Congress doing it, so write your representatives, not the President.

Yes, you are correct and yes I read alot of the bill. The problem I have is that this bill, to me, is just the beginning. If you go in and read this thing, you will begin to wonder why they are even looking into such things.

Here is just one small part of this bill that gives me a headache and is in direct violation of our 13th amendment.

(6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.

Here is the section of our 13th amendment that this goes completely against.

Thirteenth Amendment;

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Mandatory service = involuntary servitude my friends

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2009-03-22 10:30:00

This is one of the things that gets to me living in America, that it takes a comedy news program to broadcast the most real news I've seen since I can remember if ever.

If you haven't seen this Jon Stewart vs Jim kramer interview yet it's highly recommended and damn good, the normal media here is a joke and the comedy station media is hard hitting...lol?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index ... -interview

ninjins

2009-03-22 21:02:13

.conflict wrote:
The Argumentalizer wrote: You dont like the War on Terror. BOOHOO.
You think you could have done better in LA? Last i checked, the first responders in Loiusiana are all Democrats!
Fucking figures.
Look at us fucking canadians, no army, no armed citizen, we dont even lock our doors!
we barely feel anything from the economic crysis, we are not at war, we are loved and welcomed in any country, and no hospital fees in quebec, owned much?

Yeah keep your war on terror dude, its really working out for you.
Oh and - found Ben Laden yet?

^^Why im moving to canada.

Uncle Rico

2009-03-22 21:16:13

TiGGy wrote:
.conflict wrote:
The Argumentalizer wrote: You dont like the War on Terror. BOOHOO.
You think you could have done better in LA? Last i checked, the first responders in Loiusiana are all Democrats!
Fucking figures.
Look at us fucking canadians, no army, no armed citizen, we dont even lock our doors!
we barely feel anything from the economic crysis, we are not at war, we are loved and welcomed in any country, and no hospital fees in quebec, owned much?

Yeah keep your war on terror dude, its really working out for you.
Oh and - found Ben Laden yet?
^^Why im moving to canada.

Car pool?

badinfluence

2009-03-23 04:50:14

The Argumentalizer wrote:What kind of silly nonsense is that? They work for the people. What do you mean the time to criticize is over.
Are you stoned?
Wow, we are in deep shit.

The time to complain about our elected leaders is over!??!!?!

So, you are going to create a following? A cult if you will. You're going to have to get as many followers as you can to take over congress with your beliefs. You are going to be president. And somehow you are going to do this within the next four years?

You're just complaining to complain. You can't do jack shit about it even if they do work for the people. We may be in deep shit, but you aren't doing anything to change the situation. Have you wrote your congress person? Have you phoned your congress person? Have you emailed your congress person? That's all you can really do. You can try to call Obama, but I doubt he'll pick up for you since you're running in 2012.

DEATH-ANGEL

2009-03-23 08:41:29

We die in 2012.

Sacrifist

2009-03-23 09:01:57

DEATH-ANGEL wrote:We die in 2012.

Word is, the poles are going to switch. I doubt everyone dies, but it is quite possible that alot of things will change if that happens.

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2009-03-23 09:49:13

badinfluence wrote:since you're running in 2012.

pb 2012

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-23 10:07:01

Voz 010!

The Argumentalizer

2009-03-23 10:10:35

badinfluence wrote:
The Argumentalizer wrote:What kind of silly nonsense is that? They work for the people. What do you mean the time to criticize is over.
Are you stoned?
Wow, we are in deep shit.

The time to complain about our elected leaders is over!??!!?!
So, you are going to create a following? A cult if you will. You're going to have to get as many followers as you can to take over congress with your beliefs. You are going to be president. And somehow you are going to do this within the next four years?

You're just complaining to complain. You can't do jack shit about it even if they do work for the people. We may be in deep shit, but you aren't doing anything to change the situation. Have you wrote your congress person? Have you phoned your congress person? Have you emailed your congress person? That's all you can really do. You can try to call Obama, but I doubt he'll pick up for you since you're running in 2012.

Actually, i am very active in the party that most reflects my values.
I have campaigned, wrote emails, donated money... i have met everyone of my reps.
I have written my Senator many times.
I have sent many an angry missive at all sorts of politicos.

Edited Just Because

CellarDweller

2009-03-23 14:10:09

i'm sending a tea bag to the whitehouse on April 1st.

badinfluence

2009-03-23 16:31:14

The Argumentalizer wrote:
badinfluence wrote:
The Argumentalizer wrote:What kind of silly nonsense is that? They work for the people. What do you mean the time to criticize is over.
Are you stoned?
Wow, we are in deep shit.

The time to complain about our elected leaders is over!??!!?!
So, you are going to create a following? A cult if you will. You're going to have to get as many followers as you can to take over congress with your beliefs. You are going to be president. And somehow you are going to do this within the next four years?

You're just complaining to complain. You can't do jack shit about it even if they do work for the people. We may be in deep shit, but you aren't doing anything to change the situation. Have you wrote your congress person? Have you phoned your congress person? Have you emailed your congress person? That's all you can really do. You can try to call Obama, but I doubt he'll pick up for you since you're running in 2012.

Actually, i am very active in the party that most reflects my values.
I have campaigned, wrote emails, donated money... i have met everyone of my reps.
I have written my Senator many times.
I have sent many an angry missive at all sorts of politicos.

So, STFU KID!

Ok, so did your Senator vote in your favor? Do you write to him for every bill? If he didn't vote in your favor, did you vote for him the following year?

Because bitching over and over on an internet forum isn't changing anything.

P.S. I'm 18. I'm considered an adult. : )

provost

2009-03-23 16:34:14

The Argumentalizer wrote: Actually, i am very active in the party that most reflects my values.
I have campaigned, wrote emails, donated money... i have met everyone of my reps.
I have written my Senator many times.
I have sent many an angry missive at all sorts of politicos.

So, please, consider this new information in our future conversations.

Regards,
Argumentalizer.

Va|iums

2009-03-23 18:37:23

DEATH-ANGEL wrote:We die in 2012.

No we are not. S T F U. Throughout history for hundreds of years the religious and the superstitious have been predicting doomsdays, and for hundreds of years every generation predicted a certain date that spread like wildfire about the day we would all get cancer, die of an asteroid while a gigantic volcano spews lava burning ourselves alive. Our generation is NOT special, and just like thousands of generations before us we will live to see another. Eventually not on a date predicted by human beings we will see a large population reduction and not complete extinction via a large volcano eruption, or an asteroid will hit, or we will simply smother ourselves in C02 and die slowly like morons. Everyone loves to get on the doomsday we are all going to die bandwagons, if anyone wants to take me in a paypal bet we won't all die in 2012, I got a hundred on it.

CellarDweller

2009-03-23 19:18:24

Va|iums wrote:
DEATH-ANGEL wrote:We die in 2012.
No we are not. S T F U. Throughout history for hundreds of years the religious and the superstitious (and the SCIENTISTS and the POLITICIANS) have been predicting doomsdays, and for hundreds of years every generation predicted a certain date that spread like wildfire about the day we would all get cancer, die of an asteroid while a gigantic volcano spews lava burning ourselves alive. Our generation is NOT special, and just like thousands of generations before us we will live to see another. Eventually not on a date predicted by human beings we will see a large population reduction and not complete extinction via a large volcano eruption, or an asteroid will hit, or we will simply smother ourselves in C02 and die slowly like morons. Everyone loves to get on the doomsday we are all going to die bandwagons, if anyone wants to take me in a paypal bet we won't all die in 2012, I got a hundred on it.

fixed

ninojman

2009-03-23 21:39:03

.conflict wrote: Look at us fucking canadians, no army, no armed citizen, we dont even lock our doors!
we barely feel anything from the economic crysis, we are not at war, we are loved and welcomed in any country, and no hospital fees in quebec, owned much?

Yeah keep your war on terror dude, its really working out for you.
Oh and - found Ben Laden yet?

US can goto any country.

The areas with the High legal gun rates don't have to lock doors
The cities with 'no gun laws' you better not walk down that street.
Not everyone is feeling the economical crysis in the US. Just any area with Crappie housing.

Anyone can go to an Hospital in the US and get treatment for free. No one can be turned away from a ER until after treatment for free

'War on Terror' is just slightly better then our 'War on Drugs' and 'War on Poverty'