A Message to Everyone.

Dear HL2DM community,

Why did you start playing this game? Because the skill ceiling was high? Because you enjoyed the community? Because you made nice friends?

As for me, it was the first reason. I liked the fact that you had to learn all those advanced techniques. I liked the aim that was involved. It was much more advanced than anything else. When I first started out, I hated people that whored the rpg and shotgun. Then I became one of them. I liked playing competitively. I enjoyed 1v1ing. I enjoyed flexing my e-penis. Now what has HL2DM become?

We are all playing to win. We are doing everything we can to put down other players instead of welcoming them to our community. There's a rare couple of people where no bullshit was started on their intro thread. We are making people leave our community because we aren't being nice. HL2DM has become a game where all you have to do is aim. You have to go get RPG, learn the shotgun technique, learn bhop, and you can pwn with the rest of them. IMO, that's not a fun game. And I know, most of you already agree with me because you hate css. This game has become CSS. There's aiming, there's bitching, and there's no camaraderie. Nothing will change this game. Nobody's going to start being nice, and playing skillfully. But that's ok. This is just somewhere for me to vent at the HL2DM community.

I guess what I miss the most is the skill. You guys can go play competitively, and I'll go to my pub and play for fun.

This is not intended for any one sole person. It is just a message to everyone. Take it as that.

Sincerely,
Bad Influence

I love you.

panic stop trying to act like poor_billy it just doesn't work, you just cant match it and it makes me lol a lot

All I said was I love you? lolumad?

Dear BadInfluence,

The game's dead because it's dead. Its not gonna come back to life no matter what happens, even if poor_billy starts volunteering his time at homeless shelters and takes Zman out for a beer. Also this game isn't like CSS, unlike confused I'm actually starting to scrim real CEVO teams and the comaradie is equal/better then hl2dm at its peak moments. Also the skill level in CSS once you start playing actual good teams get ridiculous, it's like trying to put together a perfectly timed swiss watch with a bunch of nerds that sound like donald duck. Although I admit out of every 10 scrims, there's a hacker in 3 of them which is lame. Oh btw I started HL2DM because I like bunnyhopping, and still will always love HL2DM for its liberal allowance of bunnyhopping movement. Skill is subjective, skill used to be based on magnum aim when valve didnt f*** up the hitboxes and nerf the magnum, then skill turned into who could spam the best, then skill turned into camping it with an RPG, now skill is based on shotgun and whoever aims at the head best with it.

-Signed, without love, Va|iums

well said bad and holy. I'll see you in those pubs to hf.

Playing to win = playing skillfully; the two arent mutually exclusive, quite the opposite. If that means the match degrades into a (retarded rocket camp / blind orb spam / across the map mag snipe) fest, find a better map.

Also, comparing hl2dm to css, "all you do is aim"...? You best be trolling, sir!

Anyway, i agree with the part about too many shitty attitudes and epeen flexers, but youre going to find them in pubs too, just without the bite to back up their bark. And good luck in those pubs btw, not that youll need it (fish in a barrel etc).

Other:
"game is dead" - To those who no longer play, it sure is!
"shotgun tutorial" - Let me quote brother grigori from hl2sp: AIM FOR THE HEAD!

Where are all these pubs everyone is talking about???
I can usually find 0-3 filled pubs. And they all suck.
I miss joining a LD pub filled with great players like $W and vdus.
Pubbing used to be a competition to see who could get first place.
Now it seems pubs are only for people that "just want to have fun and play nice and make friends".
Whenever I join a pub now there's one player who goes 54-12 and a couple more just above a 1 kdr

So boring

I'd rather 1v1

As this game has aged, every trick in the book has been discovered, lost, and then rediscovered, but always by a select few who horde their knowledge.

I miss turning my player model into a headcrab. Anyone else remember how to do that? God, I wish I still knew how to do that.

#getgood

Holymoly, I fully enjoyed or scrim last night, it was entertaining, yes, lots of shotguns, lots of spam, lots of mag, lots of everything. I do play to win but I also try to have fun while doing it. I honestly think that the only reason why this game is going to hell is this community at times as well, to many assholes, not enough people just wanting to make this all work. I'm not saying I'm all good when it comes to contributing to the community either though. As far as a guides go, well shotgun = just aim for the head and strafe into it, at least thats what I think the community has said in different threads. I think really that sure they're were a lot of the things you could do discovered already, but tbh we can all try to use those things in new and unique ways to change up how maps are played.

As for the community yea, were a bunch of assholes lately, all of have been. Always bitching at one another for one thing or another. My new goal is to work on not bitching so much, accept what ever happens and just play.

holymoly wrote:The responses of Panic and Deathwish in particular are indicative of the community's failure to listen to sincere, well-worded criticism.

I sincerely do not enjoy playing this game anymore due to the attitudes of the game's more adept players. As this game has aged, every trick in the book has been discovered, lost, and then rediscovered, but always by a select few who horde their knowledge. Why has $W always been so secretive? Why do talented players not share their tricks with others? Why is there no shotgun tutorial? Why is there no speed gravity gun tutorial?

The answer to these questions is the very point that Bad Influence is making - that people value winning a scrim more than they do the benefit of the community. The effect that this selfishness produces is twofold. Because the elite players fail to disseminate their knowledge, the players they beat cannot find a way to compete and so they leave the game. And so, because their only real opponents leave the game, the elite players become bored and eventually move on as well.

I sincerely plead with the community to take this thread and Bad Influence's argument seriously.

Interesting post, is there anyone out there who actually does horde knowledge? Personally, I've taught everything I know to anyone who would listen.

if there's not an element of fun in your competitive nature, then you're going to burn out.

maybe fun is the wrong word, or an incomplete description. enjoyment perhaps? after all, its never really fun getting annihilated. but even during the most severe beatings, i still enjoy the beauty of the game itself. the movement, the skill, the omfg did u see that moments, the wtf how did that happen moments. the game is still a guilty pleasure for me.

asshats kinda steal the limelight to be sure, but like others have said, they exist in all forms of online gaming and on the internet in general. you won't ever be able to change that. all you can do is contol how you interact or dont interact with the them.

epeens?

i do agree with bad to a degree. there is a shroud of mystery around the established class of leets. right or wrong, that mystery is percieved as arrogance. i know i tend to to view many of them as unapproachable. but thats my hangup, not theirs. its just another thing i need to work on regarding this game.

Zman42 wrote:

holymoly wrote:The responses of Panic and Deathwish in particular are indicative of the community's failure to listen to sincere, well-worded criticism.

I sincerely do not enjoy playing this game anymore due to the attitudes of the game's more adept players. As this game has aged, every trick in the book has been discovered, lost, and then rediscovered, but always by a select few who horde their knowledge. Why has $W always been so secretive? Why do talented players not share their tricks with others? Why is there no shotgun tutorial? Why is there no speed gravity gun tutorial?

The answer to these questions is the very point that Bad Influence is making - that people value winning a scrim more than they do the benefit of the community. The effect that this selfishness produces is twofold. Because the elite players fail to disseminate their knowledge, the players they beat cannot find a way to compete and so they leave the game. And so, because their only real opponents leave the game, the elite players become bored and eventually move on as well.

I sincerely plead with the community to take this thread and Bad Influence's argument seriously.

Interesting post, is there anyone out there who actually does horde knowledge? Personally, I've taught everything I know to anyone who would listen.

well, i dont know wtf a speed gravity gun is.

CellarDweller wrote:

Zman42 wrote:

holymoly wrote:The responses of Panic and Deathwish in particular are indicative of the community's failure to listen to sincere, well-worded criticism.

I sincerely do not enjoy playing this game anymore due to the attitudes of the game's more adept players. As this game has aged, every trick in the book has been discovered, lost, and then rediscovered, but always by a select few who horde their knowledge. Why has $W always been so secretive? Why do talented players not share their tricks with others? Why is there no shotgun tutorial? Why is there no speed gravity gun tutorial?

The answer to these questions is the very point that Bad Influence is making - that people value winning a scrim more than they do the benefit of the community. The effect that this selfishness produces is twofold. Because the elite players fail to disseminate their knowledge, the players they beat cannot find a way to compete and so they leave the game. And so, because their only real opponents leave the game, the elite players become bored and eventually move on as well.

I sincerely plead with the community to take this thread and Bad Influence's argument seriously.

Interesting post, is there anyone out there who actually does horde knowledge? Personally, I've taught everything I know to anyone who would listen.

well, i dont know wtf a speed gravity gun is.

right click, switch weapons, switch back, right click. lets you grab things quicker as it cuts down on the delay.

there has always been asses in this game it just that over time they have been slowly driving away players that just want to have fun. Like I seen it allot in europe you got a highly skilled clan but they act like morons in game like it bad enough for a team to get beaten hard but then to be insulted before during and after a game would drive anyone out of this game and its a real shame because someone them that had lefted really contributed more to the game than those elites.

I think people holding onto knowledge of the game is understandable mainly because I do it to, not to keep a competitive edge well yea to be honest I do but there is a reason for it. Some time back I help new comers and shared my knowledge but sadly those peeps turned out to be bad people. Its not a nice feeling spreading your knowledge for it to be used put other down in a negative way so it is why I only help out clan m8s.

I do have a idea tho may be since that the map comp is finished the uni admins could work on a utube channel project for hl2dmu with all the tutorials, frag movies and other stuff related to hl2dm. That way it more focus and all in one place for someone to really get into game and understand it better. They could even add additional content them selfs like.
.film footage of keyboard and mouse for bhop
.beginners guide for hl2dm settings e.g cfg, binds (also there is that Cartel | Talented trailer that not being that much use sitting on news page as a download)
I guess it requires peeps to pull there weight and contribute rather than complaining the game is dead and most should know a game is only as strong as the community that supports it but lately there been little of it from player in the game.

Zman42 wrote:

holymoly wrote:The responses of Panic and Deathwish in particular are indicative of the community's failure to listen to sincere, well-worded criticism.

I sincerely do not enjoy playing this game anymore due to the attitudes of the game's more adept players. As this game has aged, every trick in the book has been discovered, lost, and then rediscovered, but always by a select few who horde their knowledge. Why has $W always been so secretive? Why do talented players not share their tricks with others? Why is there no shotgun tutorial? Why is there no speed gravity gun tutorial?

The answer to these questions is the very point that Bad Influence is making - that people value winning a scrim more than they do the benefit of the community. The effect that this selfishness produces is twofold. Because the elite players fail to disseminate their knowledge, the players they beat cannot find a way to compete and so they leave the game. And so, because their only real opponents leave the game, the elite players become bored and eventually move on as well.

I sincerely plead with the community to take this thread and Bad Influence's argument seriously.

Interesting post, is there anyone out there who actually does horde knowledge? Personally, I've taught everything I know to anyone who would listen.

and i can personally say that zman is more than willing to help. he has helped me before. i found z and luke to be excelent ppl to look to for advise, both have always been willing to lend me a hand when ever i asked.

Va|iums wrote:skill used to be based on magnum aim when valve didnt f*** up the hitboxes and nerf the magnum, then skill turned into who could spam the best, then skill turned into camping it with an RPG, now skill is based on shotgun and whoever aims at the head best with it.

-Signed, without love, Va|iums

That's what I miss the most. Now the game has turned into what you've described it. I missed someone beating you with the mag, and you have to increase your aim. Now it's.. "Well, if I didn't get the rpg, what can I do to get it quicker."

I guess I'm not disagreeing with scrims. I know I don't want to play them anymore, but when you guys do play unknown clans and kick their ass. Before they leave, offer some type of help. Do it in a nice way, or they'll just leave like the rest of them.

the_big_cheese wrote:Where are all these pubs everyone is talking about???
I can usually find 0-3 filled pubs. And they all suck.
I miss joining a LD pub filled with great players like $W and vdus.
Pubbing used to be a competition to see who could get first place.
Now it seems pubs are only for people that "just want to have fun and play nice and make friends".
Whenever I join a pub now there's one player who goes 54-12 and a couple more just above a 1 kdr

The Warfare Arena is really becoming a nice comp pub. I know you have your pub cheese, but nobody's going to come if there's nobody playing. Also, to find a game, I only look in my friend's list. I never go through the actual server list.

i actually started playing hl2dm because i played ut2004 to the ground and nobody was playing any more. so i was in best buy and saw hl2 and picked it up so i would have something to play until UT3 came out. little did i know that i would be sucked into the black hole of hl2dm.

badinfluence wrote: That's what I miss the most. Now the game has turned into what you've described it. I missed someone beating you with the mag, and you have to increase your aim. Now it's.. "Well, if I didn't get the rpg, what can I do to get it quicker."

I guess I'm not disagreeing with scrims. I know I don't want to play them anymore, but when you guys do play unknown clans and kick their ass. Before they leave, offer some type of help. Do it in a nice way, or they'll just leave like the rest of them.

In all but maybe 2 maps we have in this community it's rarely the RPG making the big difference and most of us are offering advice to clans that want it. BI you might just be looking only at the bad in the community bro.

It's all what you make of it, BI. Any online game changes. It goes from full servers and plenty of players and almost always eventually fades into the few remaining assholes who play to crush the spirits of those other few remaining assholes. It's part of the gaming life. It's inevitable.
The good part of the game is the relationships you make while you're here. I started playing HL2DM because it came with HL2. I didn't want to get back into online gaming after a few years of CS and TFC, but I gave it a shot and found some guys in clan called {EVIL EMPIRE} who made me laugh. But it wasn't the game that kept me playing, it was the people I've met along the way. The older EE and HE guys remember the gigantic feud that raged on throughout 2006. We annoyed the hell out of each other's pub servers on a daily basis. Was it aggravating? At the time, fuck ya it was. But the game changed and priorities changed and now we can all look back and laugh about it. We got to know each other, respect each other, and it's all k. The game will continue to change until it spirals down into the toilet of the internet like many great games before it.
Take what you want from the game, BI. Whether it's 1v1's, scrims, pub play, some uber modded roleplay high kill low grav gigantic circle jerk for retard babies, or just hanging out causing shenanigans with your friends that makes it fun, find what fits you and stick with it. If there's nothing left in the game that you enjoy, and no camaraderie that keeps you playing, don't be afraid to step away and find a new hobby. Life's too short to spend time being annoyed by a fucking video game.

Let's go find a rebel.

Walking Target wrote:Let's go find a rebel.

~ninojman '07

hahahahahaha!!

omg!

RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico
RicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRicoRico

Uncle Rico wrote:The older EE and HE guys remember the gigantic feud that raged on throughout 2006.

I still think Anti was insane (and not a cute cuddly insane either). And I laugh when I think that *some* of ewR's roots can be traced back to a clan whose founders mostly played walmart_v4.

Uncle Rico wrote:It's all what you make of it, BI. Any online game changes. It goes from full servers and plenty of players and almost always eventually fades into the few remaining assholes who play to crush the spirits of those other few remaining assholes. It's part of the gaming life. It's inevitable.
The good part of the game is the relationships you make while you're here. I started playing HL2DM because it came with HL2. I didn't want to get back into online gaming after a few years of CS and TFC, but I gave it a shot and found some guys in clan called {EVIL EMPIRE} who made me laugh. But it wasn't the game that kept me playing, it was the people I've met along the way. The older EE and HE guys remember the gigantic feud that raged on throughout 2006. We annoyed the hell out of each other's pub servers on a daily basis.

I remember that :O had a good time in EE, always had big fun with Antichrist, inozent, you( although you were a bit inactive back then :p ) and some other which i can't recall anymore, was playing with 170 ping but always had a lot of laughs . Anyway for a long time those were the moments where i had the most fun in Hl2(untill now in eS). And the big EE vs HE was actually just both leaders hating each other, if i remember good I had to ban their leader as soon as he came on the server .

And as for flames in hl2dm, in europe there aren't much flamewars, I played pretty much every clan in europe and not really noticing ppl flaming eachother. Only flames I received lately was the match vs 911, thought they were cool guys untill that match (don't know if whole 911 acts like them or it are just these individuals being asses) Allthough i have to admit modern and me laughed our ass off at TS on their flames

And that big ass EE map with the towers. Then someone added all sorts of transports to tunnels where you got stuck and screwed it up.
And then EE was warring with each other. It was really crazy.

BuckyKatt wrote:

Uncle Rico wrote:The older EE and HE guys remember the gigantic feud that raged on throughout 2006.

I still think Anti was insane (and not a cute cuddly insane either). And I laugh when I think that *some* of ewR's roots can be traced back to a clan whose founders mostly played walmart_v4.

LOL. Anti had some issues for sure. Still does. I started hanging out with EE right before Kage left and don't really know what happened, but like alot of others, I just picked a side and went with it.
That walmart map was pure win. We played the EE version of that to death. Tons of good memories there. The EE walmart is still my background when I start up DM.

The Argumentalizer wrote:And that big ass EE map with the towers. Then someone added all sorts of transports to tunnels where you got stuck and screwed it up.
And then EE was warring with each other. It was really crazy.

That map was fun too despite all the flaws in it. Meek fixed it a while back, but one of the teleport exits is still broken I believe.

ninojman wrote:

Walking Target wrote:Let's go find a rebel.

~ninojman '07

hahahahahaha!!

omg!

Instant classic.

Uncle Rico wrote:Take what you want from the game, BI. Whether it's 1v1's, scrims, pub play, some uber modded roleplay high kill low grav gigantic circle jerk for retard babies, or just hanging out causing shenanigans with your friends that makes it fun, find what fits you and stick with it.

muhahahaha. i love you man

Ive been playing since day one and I come and go as time goes on, and Ive seen people come and go. Whats left of the game now is who will stick it out. Maybe one day cyn^ will come back or we'll restart one. but in general, what we have now is what we will have in the end.

They already came back once. And you could say the same thing about one. but you will never know.

i withheld speed crawl.

Uncle Rico wrote:

The Argumentalizer wrote:And that big ass EE map with the towers. Then someone added all sorts of transports to tunnels where you got stuck and screwed it up.
And then EE was warring with each other. It was really crazy.

That map was fun too despite all the flaws in it. Meek fixed it a while back, but one of the teleport exits is still broken I believe.

Haha dm_evilempire it was first something like 4towers i guess, i've spend so much hours on that and EE wal-mart btw rico are cerberus, joeynova, fragmore and uncle-osiris still in EE ?

svN wrote:Haha dm_evilempire it was first something like 4towers i guess, i've spend so much hours on that and EE wal-mart btw rico are cerberus, joeynova, fragmore and uncle-osiris still in EE ?

Cerb, Joey and Frag are still in EE although we rarely see them. Frag and Osiris joined back up with Anti, Emo, Shinebox and Ino when they started that USK TF2 clan.
EE was soooo geographically diverse back then. We had people from all over the globe in one clan. You and Stef from Belgium, Ino in Denmark, seems like a dozen or so guys from the UK, Turkey, Egypt, Canada, even a kid from Japan at one time. 200 suit chargers and rpg's everwhere>bad ping.

Va|iums wrote: Also this game isn't like CSS, unlike confused I'm actually starting to scrim real CEVO teams and the comaradie is equal/better then hl2dm at its peak moments. Also the skill level in CSS once you start playing actual good teams get ridiculous, it's like trying to put together a perfectly timed swiss watch with a bunch of nerds that sound like donald duck. Although I admit out of every 10 scrims, there's a hacker in 3 of them which is lame.

in a team? or do you just ring for other teams?

Darkology wrote:

Va|iums wrote: Also this game isn't like CSS, unlike confused I'm actually starting to scrim real CEVO teams and the comaradie is equal/better then hl2dm at its peak moments. Also the skill level in CSS once you start playing actual good teams get ridiculous, it's like trying to put together a perfectly timed swiss watch with a bunch of nerds that sound like donald duck. Although I admit out of every 10 scrims, there's a hacker in 3 of them which is lame.

in a team? or do you just ring for other teams?

didn't you hear? hes in x3o with confused.

Good to see some wishful thinking out there, but who really knows how long this game will last? The reason I started playing is because ive always been a fan of fast paced first person shooters. I was addicted to Quake 1 during high school, didn't care as much for Q2 because of the slight rocket delay, but when Q3 came out I got really into that for a few years. Then my computer became more and more outdated as the years passed, nothing really looked interesting to me, I was never a fan of the Unreal series because it felt like a bad copy of quake to me. When I saw the preview for hl2dm, I ended up buying a used copy of it on craig's list the 1st week it was released, the only problem was I didn't have a computer to play it, so maybe a month passed and I gathered enough dough to buy a gaming rig. With that said and done, I was finally playing and I have been pretty hooked ever since. Thanks for listening to my story, this has been brought to you by: Ortho - Weed B Gone!

Darkology wrote:

Va|iums wrote: Also this game isn't like CSS, unlike confused I'm actually starting to scrim real CEVO teams and the comaradie is equal/better then hl2dm at its peak moments. Also the skill level in CSS once you start playing actual good teams get ridiculous, it's like trying to put together a perfectly timed swiss watch with a bunch of nerds that sound like donald duck. Although I admit out of every 10 scrims, there's a hacker in 3 of them which is lame.

in a team? or do you just ring for other teams?

lol cyns not coming back death, quti pretending you got inside inf0. I play with 2 clans currently deciding on which to join for cevo/eco league, so I both ring and play in team scrims.

Va|iums wrote:

Darkology wrote:

Va|iums wrote: Also this game isn't like CSS, unlike confused I'm actually starting to scrim real CEVO teams and the comaradie is equal/better then hl2dm at its peak moments. Also the skill level in CSS once you start playing actual good teams get ridiculous, it's like trying to put together a perfectly timed swiss watch with a bunch of nerds that sound like donald duck. Although I admit out of every 10 scrims, there's a hacker in 3 of them which is lame.

in a team? or do you just ring for other teams?

lol cyns not coming back death, quti pretending you got inside inf0. I play with 2 clans currently deciding on which to join for cevo/eco league, so I both ring and play in team scrims.

be seeing you in eco season 2 then sir.

I sincerely do not enjoy playing this game anymore due to the attitudes of the game's more adept players. As this game has aged, every trick in the book has been discovered, lost, and then rediscovered, but always by a select few who horde their knowledge. Why has $W always been so secretive? Why do talented players not share their tricks with others? Why is there no shotgun tutorial? Why is there no speed gravity gun tutorial?

The answer to these questions is the very point that Bad Influence is making - that people value winning a scrim more than they do the benefit of the community. The effect that this selfishness produces is twofold. Because the elite players fail to disseminate their knowledge, the players they beat cannot find a way to compete and so they leave the game. And so, because their only real opponents leave the game, the elite players become bored and eventually move on as well.

I don't really understand this, so basically since others aren't willing to learn the knowledge on their own (specifically, how to improve their game), I have to go and teach it to them?

Shotgun tutorial? Point and click. It's always been one of the most powerful weapons in the game, it's just that the general public was more enticed by other things (specifically, mag skills) early on in the game, while the top players (read: me, luke, whoever) knew how the game was really meant to be played. Am I really going to go up to my possible future competition and teach them how to look at the game? It is their job to improve, not mine to teach them. If they aren't going to improve, I'm just going to continue winning each season over and over until they do improve. I can either cater to them and tell them how to improve, or I can just demolish them over and over until they figure it out - I prefer the later.

This isn't detrimental to the community, go look at any game. The top players remain top because they know how to play the game and have a more realistic&simpler approach to the game than other players. Eventually these top players get competition, because other players come into the game and improve until they're near/exceeding the other top players' levels. (Read: Me in TF2.)

Blaming top players for being top is ridiculous. In fact, am I being trolled?

a wild seagull has appeared

Seagull wrote:

I sincerely do not enjoy playing this game anymore due to the attitudes of the game's more adept players. As this game has aged, every trick in the book has been discovered, lost, and then rediscovered, but always by a select few who horde their knowledge. Why has $W always been so secretive? Why do talented players not share their tricks with others? Why is there no shotgun tutorial? Why is there no speed gravity gun tutorial?

The answer to these questions is the very point that Bad Influence is making - that people value winning a scrim more than they do the benefit of the community. The effect that this selfishness produces is twofold. Because the elite players fail to disseminate their knowledge, the players they beat cannot find a way to compete and so they leave the game. And so, because their only real opponents leave the game, the elite players become bored and eventually move on as well.

I don't really understand this, so basically since others aren't willing to learn the knowledge on their own (specifically, how to improve their game), I have to go and teach it to them?

Shotgun tutorial? Point and click. It's always been one of the most powerful weapons in the game, it's just that the general public was more enticed by other things (specifically, mag skills) early on in the game, while the top players (read: me, luke, whoever) knew how the game was really meant to be played. Am I really going to go up to my possible future competition and teach them how to look at the game? It is their job to improve, not mine to teach them. If they aren't going to improve, I'm just going to continue winning each season over and over until they do improve. I can either cater to them and tell them how to improve, or I can just demolish them over and over until they figure it out - I prefer the later.

This isn't detrimental to the community, go look at any game. The top players remain top because they know how to play the game and have a more realistic&simpler approach to the game than other players. Eventually these top players get competition, because other players come into the game and improve until they're near/exceeding the other top players' levels. (Read: Me in TF2.)

Blaming top players for being top is ridiculous. In fact, am I being trolled?

There are things I agree with and disagree with in this post. I agree completely it's not the job of the elite of the elite players to teach the community, they get there because they are dedicated, have a fire that burns brighter then the others, have more intelligence (no offense), quicker reactions and define the game as they play it. Hertz, v0z, nutri, pb, divinity all have a unique style of play that wasn't taught to them by an inner chamber of masters that taught unto them the secrets. They defined the secrets, they smashed the old secrets/techniques crumbling to the ground by themselves. The magnum WAS a superior choice early on because it had greater damage and wider hitboxes until the update. As for being what consists of a top player, it's subjective as well. Kurtz used almost exclusively used a xbow and a magnum, Helk almost exclusively used spam. Luke, and probably you are no longer top players in today's HL2DM mainly because of the new maps and the new playstyles required from it, the game has fundamentally changed and shifted while you've been gone, and as Luke's playstyle and reaction times have aged. Most importantly skill is as defined as much by the maps as they are by the individual skill. If you think PB and nutrigrain and gods of hl2dm then I think you haven't seen them play lockdown (speaking from personal experience).

Va|iums wrote:

Seagull wrote:

I sincerely do not enjoy playing this game anymore due to the attitudes of the game's more adept players. As this game has aged, every trick in the book has been discovered, lost, and then rediscovered, but always by a select few who horde their knowledge. Why has $W always been so secretive? Why do talented players not share their tricks with others? Why is there no shotgun tutorial? Why is there no speed gravity gun tutorial?

The answer to these questions is the very point that Bad Influence is making - that people value winning a scrim more than they do the benefit of the community. The effect that this selfishness produces is twofold. Because the elite players fail to disseminate their knowledge, the players they beat cannot find a way to compete and so they leave the game. And so, because their only real opponents leave the game, the elite players become bored and eventually move on as well.

I don't really understand this, so basically since others aren't willing to learn the knowledge on their own (specifically, how to improve their game), I have to go and teach it to them?

Shotgun tutorial? Point and click. It's always been one of the most powerful weapons in the game, it's just that the general public was more enticed by other things (specifically, mag skills) early on in the game, while the top players (read: me, luke, whoever) knew how the game was really meant to be played. Am I really going to go up to my possible future competition and teach them how to look at the game? It is their job to improve, not mine to teach them. If they aren't going to improve, I'm just going to continue winning each season over and over until they do improve. I can either cater to them and tell them how to improve, or I can just demolish them over and over until they figure it out - I prefer the later.

This isn't detrimental to the community, go look at any game. The top players remain top because they know how to play the game and have a more realistic&simpler approach to the game than other players. Eventually these top players get competition, because other players come into the game and improve until they're near/exceeding the other top players' levels. (Read: Me in TF2.)

Blaming top players for being top is ridiculous. In fact, am I being trolled?

There are things I agree with and disagree with in this post. I agree completely it's not the job of the elite of the elite players to teach the community, they get there because they are dedicated, have a fire that burns brighter then the others, have more intelligence (no offense), quicker reactions and define the game as they play it. Hertz, v0z, nutri, pb, divinity all have a unique style of play that wasn't taught to them by an inner chamber of masters that taught unto them the secrets. They defined the secrets, they smashed the old secrets/techniques crumbling to the ground by themselves. The magnum WAS a superior choice early on because it had greater damage and wider hitboxes until the update. As for being what consists of a top player, it's subjective as well. Kurtz used almost exclusively used a xbow and a magnum, Helk almost exclusively used spam. Luke, and probably you are no longer top players in today's HL2DM mainly because of the new maps and the new playstyles required from it, the game has fundamentally changed and shifted while you've been gone, and as Luke's playstyle and reaction times have aged. Most importantly skill is as defined as much by the maps as they are by the individual skill. If you think PB and nutrigrain and gods of hl2dm then I think you haven't seen them play lockdown (speaking from personal experience).

true i suck at maps where i can't orb bank, but i can mostly dominate anyone on r5.

I started to play HL2DM because I enjoyed the HL1 and HL2 games and I wanted to see what it was like to play online with live people. I stayed because of the challenge it presented to continue getting better and I met some really good people who became friends.

Bad Influence, your post hits home for me in many ways and reflects much of my own opinion of what has happened since I started playing this game. While I do agree with Seagull to some extent in that we cant completely coddle new players and that they need to cultivate the same passion and dedication to the game that the “l33ts” have; I disagree in that we can at least show them some things (advanced movement, grav nading, fast orbing, basic strategy) to get them up to a skill level beyond noob if they choose to practice it.

I think you are right in that the community has changed. People are more interested in comparing their e-penises than they are in keeping this game going and keeping the competition we all enjoy viable. There have been new players that have come into the game and many have come here to get involved, and most of them get driven away by the attitudes and the drama they find here.

You are correct, there is no more camaraderie; there are very few friendly rivalries. Some people here say “If you cant handle it, don’t play”. Well that is a self defeating attitude and it will only serve to continue this game’s and this community’s downward spiral and it may well be the final nail in the coffin. The problem BI is that too many people here don’t give a shit about the game or the community. They only care about their own self serving agenda and their own petty ego.

I am still here and I still love this game, but for the most part I have given up on the community because I have seen and am seeing too many good people leave it and the game, because it is rather pointless to continue to fight a losing battle. It was a good try though, GG.

I've never played an online game this long. The opportunities to interact with physics objects with the grav gun makes it the best online experience I've ever seen. This is why I cannot move to another game. I've tried, and it just isn't working for me.

I'm not skilled by any stretch of the imagination. My xbow is pretty good, but my mag is shotty, and ... well ... so is my shotty. When I'm out there goofing around and somebody starts complaining about hacking or me being too good ( ), I tell them they just have to practice. I point them here, and give them any advice I can give them in the server. There's no point at being an elitist as I've seen from other posts here, but everybody plays for their own reason.

Obviously I have a lot of time invested on the plugin side, which I enjoy. I hope they invest in this game again, and I believe they will. But I'm not moving on, which is why you will see me making a plugin for a seemingly dead game

holymoly wrote:

Seagull wrote:while the top players (read: me) knew how the game was really meant to be played.

It is their job to improve, not mine to teach them. If they aren't going to improve, I'm just going to continue winning each season over and over until they do improve. I can either cater to them and tell them how to improve, or I can just demolish them over and over until they figure it out - I prefer the later.

I would like to yield the remainder of my time to my opponent, who will continue to make my argument look vastly more appealing.

So what you're essentially saying is: top players, why are you not teaching everyone? I can understand this from a very small game point of view: there's no real point to being top, and other players can get frustrated and leave (which is admittedly very very small, but in an already small game it can have a noticeable effect). I can understand this from a mediocre player's perspective: the top players should teach me how to play so we can all have more fun together. I can understand this from HL2DMU's perspective: we are here to teach others how to play the game for the growth of the game. I also understand paradox's point that we should teach others the basics so they can start having fun themselves (which is the point of why I made my bhop tutorial as well as my 1v1 tutorial).

However, what I see in Holy's point is that I should teach others every single little strategy/thing I know, so I will never have an advantage again, and when I innovate and come up with new strategies, I should teach them to all other top players. Where is the competition in this? Where would the competition in strategies go? It would completely disappear. This isn't because:

That people value winning a scrim more than they do the benefit of the community

its because, if I started teaching every other person every little strat/action I knew of, then the FUN in competing vs a possibly unknown strategy, or a new innovative way of playing, would be completely gone. Furthermore, all the other players would become dependent on my teaching - if I started to teach others how to play, they wouldn't bother to innovate, they would wait until I started to innovate and then copy me, as I would flat-out explain how I pulled my x new strategy off. This is already prevalent among the top players, but the main thing is that the players get to figure out how to counter it and/or copy it (which is a lot of fun if you've ever been there), it isn't hand-fed to them.

And when someone figures out how to innovate a strategy, they get to experience rolling over all the other competition for a month or so until others figure it out. Yes, it's "bad" for the other players and can cause some to "leave" the game, but if players were going to leave the game because they weren't taught/didn't know how to do something, then they wouldn't be top anyway. Which is the reason for myself teaching very little outside of the basics when I was playing: I would let them get the right foot on the game (so they could at least have fun), but other than that, it is all up to them. If I taught too advanced techniques, they would become dependent on me explaining things, so I just rolled (mostly) everyone because at least in that regard I would incite others to learn how to improve themselves (which I am all for.) Maybe you're missing the point of the game which is competing/trying to be your best. There is no competing in the strategy-subsection of the game if I tell everyone how to play, nor can players ever reach their best - from my experience, players only reach their best if they do it themselves.

Also, why was it always $W/VDuS/whoever top players always "hoarded" this knowledge?

We didn't hoard it, it was completely open. We were the only ones to realize how to utilize the innovations/strategies while simultaneously having enough technical skill to make it happen. Any player who also had these characteristics would be picked up by $W or VDuS if they had a personality to go well with the rest of the team as well. (Yes, I'm basically saying that the majority of players outside $W/VDuS when I was playing were basically bad players and/or bad personalities)

"(Yes, I'm basically saying that the majority of players outside $W/VDuS when I was playing were basically bad players and/or bad personalities)"

LAWL! way to offend like, pretty much everyone eh

The only other thing i can comment on is how i lol at ppl who say "play the game how it was meant to be played", hl2dm wasnt meant for anything, all the weapons for single player were thrown in, then they ripped parts of single player maps out for dm. But thats probably wat keeps us playing it, the fact that it is so obsurd..., it is normal to love it and hate it at the same time. And counterstrike is a turds world.

I have grown a newer liking to Seagull after his posts.
Honestly my dream team was to join VDuS. By the time I grew a close bond to drag0? he already left the game.
Corrosive said I had some work to do when he still played a lot, which I respected and tried to get better.
By the time I was good enough for VDuS, most of the team left the game, so sadly there was no point in joining, and around that time I helped restart 911. In the end, I'm completely happy with where I'm at as long as we don't have any team members that give the clan a bad name, but in general, I always loved VDuS and in my mind, they will always be one of the tops alongside cyn^ and one.

Also va| I was talking about the one. clan also. Not just cyn^. tflow mentioned possibly restarting cyn^, but he always says shit like that because hes a funny little bastard.

I'm not placing hopes on anything DM related. I will continue to play and love it. I will try to support a league.
Even Teto helped me with a little training and have seen plenty of folks get help, so i don't know about all that stuff.
I doubt the DM community is that rude compared to X.
There are some different folks, for sure.

I doubt any of of this is worth worrying about.

Even though there are several things to mention on this thread and everyone has given their opinion and many opposed (but strong in some cases) arguments, I'd say I agree with the point seagull is trying to make.
I always liked helping people, I did a bhop tutorial, and was for over a year an instructor here if I'm not mistaken, but what I learnt wasn't taught to me. Sure, when I was a still new dark soul told me how to fast orb for example, but I learnt everything mostly by myself.
I looked at other people on spectator or asked for demos trying to learn from what other people did (you can even learn from players below your skill, since everyone's playstyle tends to be very different), I read everywhere I could to see what I could "steal" from other people (even got to analyze what people did on frag videos), and of course plenty of things I developed alone by playing. But you can't just tell every single thing you know, there is no fun on that. I know for a fact that me and dark know many ricochets and stuff not known by most players and that we haven't been able to use on matches cuz of our limited playing conditions, but we haven't told 'em neither plan to.
Some people expect you to do everything for them, like it's not enough I spent my time doing a complete movement tutorial, newcomers still want me to spectate them and correct them, as hoping I would say some "magical words" that will send 'em up high to 520 velocities. Makes me wonder if it was worth it doing it =|
As seagull said, people end up expecting you to teach them everything, and not innovating themselves, which limits everything among other things.
I do not agree, however, with the effrontery he is expressing with :$

i probably could have joined vdus, i know i got asked by yard and tuna on two separate occasions, but sometimes it's more than skill that makes you wanna join a clan or not.

Blasphemy wrote:i probably could have joined vdus, i know i got asked by yard and tuna on two separate occasions, but sometimes it's more than skill that makes you wanna join a clan or not.

Well that's what I'm saying. Once most of the players that I enjoyed playing with, left the game, I had no interest in joining, even to simply to wear a [VDuS] tag.

I'm not saying you have to teach them every little skill. But when you're completely owning them, they aren't even getting more than 10 kills with the rounds combined. It means you need to teach them something instead of saying gg hl2dm-university because that makes you look like a complete asshole. And the only reason that the people who are winning by 190234928349023 are playing is so they can flex their e-peens. They aren't in it for the fun. They are in it for the ego. I still don't see how anyone gets enjoyment out of that. Could someone please enlighten me?

badinfluence wrote: Could someone please enlighten me?

Because the only way some people in this world can feel better about themselves is by completely demoralizing other people.
Be thankful you arent one of them because they lead very sad and unfulfilling lives.

Either that or one may be assuming they do it for that reason.
They may just love playing.

You and I both love playing Impala, but we dont do that. If I come across someone that I am totally annihilating, after a while I start to talk to the guy and say hey here are some tips or let me show you something, etc.

This game was at it's best when pubs were full and players were playing every map in the map cycle for 10 hours straight. That was back in the day though. Now it seems only 10 maps (those chosen for league play) are allowed to be in a map cycle or the server lays vacant. It's sad really. There are so many good pub maps for this game. As for skills, Im pretty sure that everyone faster then me and everyone that aims better then me is a hacker . If you always leave the round with that in mind, you will always love this game.

On a more serious note, this game is one of the funniest games there is. Im generally laughing most of the time Im playing and that is the main reason I still fire this game up when I can.

lol yea. Funniest online multiplayer game I have ever played competitively. I remember a year ago during my peak playtime we would scrim 5 hours straight, and we would be laughing the entire time, ironically this game is also the one I take most seriously, even more then CSS, gets you raged prett quick as fast as it can make you laugh. I like it when I throw an orb when I'm playing with blas and it teamkills him on accident and he always gets raged so hard when we spawn in showers together he sneaks up behind and orb TK's me and says "Oh my bad dewd". That actually sounded gay when you think about but GG

Va|iums wrote:lol yea. Funniest online multiplayer game I have ever played competitively. I remember a year ago during my peak playtime we would scrim 5 hours straight, and we would be laughing the entire time, ironically this game is also the one I take most seriously, even more then CSS, gets you raged prett quick as fast as it can make you laugh. I like it when I throw an orb when I'm playing with blas and it teamkills him on accident and he always gets raged so hard when we spawn in showers together he sneaks up behind and orb TK's me and says "Oh my bad dewd". That actually sounded gay when you think about but GG

I've never raged because of the game. Only time I've ever gotten pissed off in this game is because of someone being an idiot in the server.

Paradox wrote:You and I both love playing Impala, but we dont do that. If I come across someone that I am totally annihilating, after a while I start to talk to the guy and say hey here are some tips or let me show you something, etc.

True.
And some sneer at you if you ask them if they are interested in what is happening and then they leave!
There are still some fresh blood coming in.
There probably needs some clan shake ups and recruiting to make 8 competitive teams.

Sacrifist wrote:This game was at it's best when pubs were full and players were playing every map in the map cycle for 10 hours straight. That was back in the day though. Now it seems only 10 maps (those chosen for league play) are allowed to be in a map cycle or the server lays vacant. It's sad really. There are so many good pub maps for this game.

On a more serious note, this game is one of the funniest games there is.

QFT

i started to play this game b/c i had free time and i like shooting games.
i kept playing this game to keep getting better as i played in more organized games and was taught the basics of the more advanced maneuvers.
i came from CS 1.4/1.5 to this game and the players seemed a bit more mature. now any game w/out the bunnyhopp seems so slow...
i can not play this game anymore as realife has taken all of my free time. i miss the good games.
job/new-house/parental responsibilities have made the last two months a chaotic time.
one day soon all the floors will be in, all the walls painted, all teh shrubs trimmed and the major projects will have abated to allow for some r & r but for now i'm swinging a hammer or sanding somthing on my days off and really working on my days on...if i take one more trip to home depot at 9.45 i'ma go insane.
hope some of you are estill playing this game when i haev more time.
old.time

If something better comes along I'll let you know.

For now nothing can replace this game for me.

Walking Target wrote:For now nothing can replace this game for me.

<3

There is no strategic play in Dm. Everything is TACTICS.
Strategy is a long term multi-front plan, such as winning WWII.

Tactics are singular movements and assaults that lead to mounting strategic victory.
This not Command and Conquer.
Thanks and good night!

I figured out how to run into shit very fast on my own. There were no tutorials.

Yes there is a difference technical skill and tactical skills. For the most part tactical skills should be learnt through experience by the player or within a team. Technical skill is different and is greater importance in this game. Technical skill is a tool set that players can learn and build on but unlike in most other games these skills are not clearly defined. But no one can argue that this knowledge of these technical skills have not been shared there has been many tutorials made by players on Bhop, grenade yo-yo and fast catch etc then there is the athletic Center its all there, the thing is these players have to look rather than having the likes of seagull point out every fact of this game to them.

what's meant by hand feeding was not meaning keeping secrets from rest of the community but mostly saying is that he won't give up his free time nor should any experience player expect to. I certainly do not want to a mentor using my time to teach someone I hardly know the tools of the trade of this game I will point them in the right direction but will not hold there hand all the way thro.

I have trained guys before the same way but I noticed that I am not really teaching my style of play but more on the skill development and how to refine and improve them but the player develop there own style of play over time once they graps the fundamental skills of the game. Which I think is a good way to go about it.

strat⋅e⋅gy  /ˈstrætɪdʒi/ [strat-i-jee]
–noun, plural -gies
1. Also, strategics. the science or art of combining and employing the means of war in planning and directing large military movements and operations.
2. the use or an instance of using this science or art.
3. skillful use of a stratagem: The salesperson's strategy was to seem always to agree with the customer.
4. a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result: a strategy for getting ahead in the world.


tac⋅tics  /ˈtæktɪks/ [tak-tiks]
–noun
1. (usually used with a singular verb) the art or science of disposing military or naval forces for battle and maneuvering them in battle.
2. (used with a plural verb) the maneuvers themselves.
3. (used with a singular verb) any mode of procedure for gaining advantage or success.
4. (usually used with a singular verb) Linguistics. a. the patterns in which the elements of a given level or stratum in a language may combine to form larger constructions.
b. the study and description of such patterns.

They are synonyms of each other, however, in military usage, a distinction is made between strategy and tactics. Strategy is the utilization, during both peace and war, of all of a nation's forces, through large-scale, long-range planning and development, to ensure security or victory. Tactics deals with the use and deployment of troops in actual combat.


IMO the are both involved, and are pretty much the same thing when it comes to war (competition) itself.

Holding the RPG area in LV or in Amp is both a strategy and a tactic. The strategy is to plan to hold the rpg as much as posible thought the match, the tactic is how you go about actually doing it.

Ya, you say potato, I say starchy, tuberous crop from the perennial Solanum tuberosum of the Solanaceae family...

Anyone who's sick of rpg and sg whoring, I've got an all-gravgun killbox on the way. I'll release it by next week at the latest.

Maneuvers made by soldiers in battle are tactics.
Plans for beating an opponent in an MMA or boxing match are tactics.

Salesmen do not use tactics, therefore, what they use in a strategy.

In combat, the words mean what they mean per your own definition.

"Salesmen do not use tactics, therefore, what they use in a strategy."

therefore - (used to introduce a logical conclusion) from that fact or reason or as a result; "therefore X must be true"
^^u didnt give a fact or reason, even though it is obvious, im not usually one to chime in about this kind of shit but wat the hell.

Wat u said there is like a christian quoting the bible in an argument about religion to prove that god is real, hate that, skip the reasoning man and get to the conclusion from nothing etc, lawl.

Salesman are not combatants. I thought that was clear?!?!
The word is used differently.

See the definitions?
See how strategy is defined FOR BATTLE?
The point is, in military/combat terms, tactics are used by soldiers and field commanders.
Strategy is used by Generals planning CAMPAIGNS.

Is it that all the definitions given for a word are all interchangeable?
In other words, does the word mean the same thing for each instance it is used?

If i lied, does it mean i told a fib AND sang a German song?

Not just to be pedantic here but it is a question of language and i like it.
Don't know what the **** you are talking about with the religious Bible God deal!??!

STRATEGY: (No.1) 1. Also, strategics. the science or art of combining and employing the means of war in planning and directing large military movements and operations.
TACTICS: (No. 1) 1. (usually used with a singular verb) the art or science of disposing military or naval forces for battle and maneuvering them in battle.

eh, i wasnt jivin u man lawl.

wasnt any need for such a lengthy response, like i said, the part u skipped, the fact, was allready mentioned an obvious but still, should allways include the fact or using the word "therefore" is just pointless.

The bible thing....well i find that wenever u argue with a religious person, they can never actually argue, they just quote the bible/shit they have remembered and think that proves a point, but u need an external source apart from the bible to prove god is real so u can say "therefore god is real and this bible verse means something", but they dont and are skipping the fact/logic part etc

I laid some facts. What faith in a deity has to do with it, i haven't a clue.
I was merely saying words have meanings and usage and wasn't trying to be Mr. Smartass, but to to make a point, interesting of not.
And i apologize for hijacking the thread.

I was just pointing out ur miss use of the word "therefore" which requires a fact or reason/logic, that u skipped.

ie "Salesmen do not use tactics, therefore, what they use in a strategy."

It doesnt make sense because u failed to explain the reason why salesmen use tactics, leaving out the most important ingredient. That is all kk no need to respond etc

Seagull wrote: Also, why was it always $W/VDuS/whoever top players always "hoarded" this knowledge?

We didn't hoard it, it was completely open. We were the only ones to realize how to utilize the innovations/strategies while simultaneously having enough technical skill to make it happen. Any player who also had these characteristics would be picked up by $W or VDuS if they had a personality to go well with the rest of the team as well. (Yes, I'm basically saying that the majority of players outside $W/VDuS when I was playing were basically bad players and/or bad personalities)

Ouch, guess WRW is forever forgotten. lol Cyn was never coming back death, rhideon just came to the forums to say that to see if people would start going nuts about it. Funny since Death is still saying shit about it. Rhideon went crazy in wow and moved to the west coast. Mertz tf2, kurtz who knows, defme l4d.

The game did pick-up a bit after [HG]Llyod made that bhopping tutorial. Then again when WT made this site. It helped a lot of people learn some of the better skills. Winning/losing by over 100 points isn't fun teaching people the basics by video's or jump maps was a great help to hl2dm. Only problem is most players before hl2dm:U only stuck around for 6 months to a year. Teams 2-3 years. In wrw I went through about 40 players to try and keep a team going. http://base.sta-league.org/hl2dm/ranks5.html

That got old and I tried dods, a lot easier to recruit players. And get scrims with different teams, which just takes a lot of the stress off of you as a gamer or team leader. Bringing some of them back to try hl2dm, the guys on my team with dead aim instantly had fun with the mag on maps like aim_arena but the movement was foreign to them. Since most people grew up on css and not deathmatch hl2dm is a hard sell. Quake players mainly stick to quake since it has backing and is geared to competition. Same for UT, so hl2dm never got a great influx of players, the games was only viewed by valve as something to put on the bo in the store as "Includes Half Life 2: Deathmatch!!!" So no support there unlike ID for Quake etc.


Games aren't meant to last this long. Shit look at dods it is completely dead and was bigger then hl2dm ever was competitively.

one. is forever forgotten too. They were the biggest thing back then also. And tflow was most of the brainchild of cyn^ rhideon just rode the highchair in on things, so if it was gonna come back tflow would have a definitive say in it. DEFme is just a goofball. I should go play l4d with him now...

ya but rhid and kurtz had the skill, tflow and some noobs don't equal cyn^ coming back.

tflow lead [HG] - tflow, defme, kurtz, llyod
Rhideon merged with HG and ran cyn^ - Rhideon, defme, tflow, Mertz, kurtz

the only reason you are talking about cyn coming back is because rhideon came back made a post, bought a server. Played the game once, and said it was still broke and left.

cX. was another good team

Nah, only reason I'm talking about them coming back is because its a fun though and tflow said it would, whilst bearing the cyn^ tag for shiggles. Has nothing to do with him stirring the pot on the U.

And there was TMX. And DGC. All gone.

Peaked and riding it out!

I cannot stress the one. clan enough nor mechanix.

TMx were cool cats

yea I used to go pub with Index a lot when he was in tmx. pretty leet with the stunstick iirc

para would have loved {SW} sniperwatch leader was a guy named Zman (lol) and they had well over 10 gb of maps on file.