Toggle_zoom (opinions and thoughts, not a rant pls...)

I know there must be thrfdfsdillions of posts written about this old controversy, but I'm curious about it and I don't wanna read loose posts on threads in which this is slightly or totally offtopic. Besides, I'm too sleepy atm to go look for it Forgive me.

Now, I've been against toggle_zoom for the most part of my hl2dm carrear (about a yr and a half), but recently I tried it and I liked it.

The reason I tried it, is cuz I could never find a freakin decent key where to bind normal zoom to. Side mouse buttons are out of the question for a hold fuction, and the default Z key seems pretty much impossible for me to use at all.
All other keys around WASD are binded to something already so I have no chances for more of anything. And anything that is two keys away from D or W is too far for me to reach handily, except R. And perhaps V (with thumb) but I still never used it so far.

It's true that my sniping abilities went up a bit. Not that much cuz I've always managed pretty well (or just as bad) without zoom, but they did went up a bit.
It seems a bit contradicting in my mind that I'm using something that I was severely against for much time. Reminds me of being a real bugger to my mother when I was a kid for her to quti smoking, only to become a persistent smoker myself a few years later.

Now although I was against it, I've never considered it an exploit, or at least not a "harmfull" one. I've always considered it as much or as little an exploit as binding the wheel to jump, using phys_swap, changing rates, preventing weapon change on pick up, setting the prefered default weapon, taking out quick info, or anything else that may be similar. In my honest opinion.

I also read once (in steam forums, I think) someone's post saying "Onti was one of the first players to ever use toggle_zoom exclusively". This made me feel a bit more confortable with it, since I came to believe that Onti was a cool player that wouldn't rely on anything that would be so much of a bad thing. An example player, I mean.

I dont know what to ask you about it, so I'll just leave it up to you to coment on this if you want.
I think I basically need to know on what side toggle_zoom is in the community.

"pissing my mother's brains"

Is it just me or is that a really odd way of putting it =\

Pernicious wrote:"pissing my mother's brains"

Is it just me or is that a really odd way of putting it =\

lol

as in "pissing off"...

hmm, maybe not the best no...
I fail sometimes with my english...

any better ideas? (pls )

ive had a bind for it since i first learned about it. like anything new, i overused it and gradually found it to be not all that useful. for competitive maps (small to medium), i rarely use it at all. mostly because, i am trying to be constantly on the move and dont camp for more than the briefest amount of time. it does have limited use in 1v1 scrims when i can camp a little longer or camp a particular bottle-neck without having to worry about multiple enemies.

now in pubs, especially large maps or maps with those hidden snipe havens... the toggle_zoom is pretty fun.

Yea, I rarely use it in dm too.
I play some ctf maps daily and that's where I find it more useful to snipe here and there and now and then. In dm is practically useless to zoom, either toggle or not.
I never got used to zoom much tho. I hardly ever play sniper maps... it's boring.

Funny that I got a warning in the ctf server, that toggle_zoom is considered an exploit there.
I refuse to change it just because of my disagreement about it being an exploit, rather than just for arguing about it. Which I didn't, btw.
I know they dont ban me there without a 2nd thought, but if they do, well, tuff.

And that was what triggered my mind to make this post that I had in mind for some time already.

I rarely used +zoom it just was never worth it I would simply just shoot without any zoom. In the early days of toggle_zoom discovery many servers with anti cheat plugins kicked/banned players for using it, does that still happen?
Its coded into the entire source engine even OB I have played a few mods that forgot to dissable it.
Speaking of anti cheat plugins thsi happend a few days ago LOL

Don't use it that often but never had a problem with it. Just a tool/option like an other available in the game.

At the highest level, the game has become movement/spam/shotty anyways.
I only zoom the bow anyways, so not a feature for me.
I had a problem early with toggle but no longer care.

People zoom?

Ghost Dog_TSGK wrote:People zoom?

lulz ya. bahlk, seagull, vaporizer and a few others im forgetting do often w/ mag.

Aside from the initial novelty of being able to zoomfire pistol, ar2 etc, i never used it. Never thought of it as an exploit either (any map that somehow rewarded this enough to make it "overpowered" being trash to begin with), and in the end i think its affect on high level play was minimal to nonexistant.

I haven't zoomed since quake, maybe I will try it after I fix this shit PC.

I never thought of toggle zoom as an exploit though.

how does toggle_zoom works? can i bind it on right mouseclick without losing other functions there (like double shotgun shot)

you can just bind it to your zoom key/button. Theres nothing more to it.
bind key toggle_zoom.
then instead of holding it, you just toggle it on/off on each key press.

As far as I know you can't bind something to mouse2 without losing the +attack2 function.
But I'm not a good scripter. Nor I intend to.

Skaruts wrote:As far as I know you can't bind something to mouse2 without losing the +attack2 function.
But I'm not a good scripter. Nor I intend to.

Yeah you'd need a script, would be fairly easy to do as well.

I tried making it one time for right click but found it very difficult to do, and besides wouldn't work on servers with the cal config anyway sicne you would need to use "wait" commands.

Deathwish wrote:I tried making it one time for right click but found it very difficult to do, and besides wouldn't work on servers with the cal config anyway sicne you would need to use "wait" commands.

incorrect actually:
alias zoom bind "mouse2" "toggle_zoom; altfire"
alias altfire bind "mouse2" "+attack2; zoom"
bind "mouse2" "zoom"
done
if you wanted to improve this you would add a script to each of your weapons so if you switched to ANYTHING you would rebind m2 to secondary fire, and then could have m2 stay as toggle zoom when you were using for example the magnum, so you could zoom back out with the same button. scripts r bad mmkay.

First of all in cal these scripts were not legal since most leagues use CAL rules that would remain.

Second thing is why would people bother just have one key toggle zoom to zoom then you can do it with any weapon at any time. It is the most error free way to go.

Lol I've been using toggle_zoom on mouse5 since the day someone found it for the first time. I have bad eyes...I find myself using it for a lot of things.

Zman42 wrote:

Deathwish wrote:I tried making it one time for right click but found it very difficult to do, and besides wouldn't work on servers with the cal config anyway sicne you would need to use "wait" commands.

incorrect actually:
alias zoom bind "mouse2" "toggle_zoom; altfire"
alias altfire bind "mouse2" "+attack2; zoom"
bind "mouse2" "zoom"
done
if you wanted to improve this you would add a script to each of your weapons so if you switched to ANYTHING you would rebind m2 to secondary fire, and then could have m2 stay as toggle zoom when you were using for example the magnum, so you could zoom back out with the same button. scripts r bad mmkay.

For starters that wont work due to too many """"""" plus it will crash the game due to it being a never ending loop. You probably already knew that.

Anyway, it's totally pointless to have a script to zoom on mouse 2 along with attack. Cuz you can just bind it to mouse4 or 5 or even 3.

In fact it's pointless to have a script for anything. I like to know it's me being skillful enough to make things happen and if I win a match I like to know it's cuz I overcome myself or the enemy. And even if I loose...

yeah it's just as good on mouse4 anyway.

Shit, with the game Shotty, Shotty, Nade, Orb, Shotty, Nade, Orb, Orb, Nade, Shotty, Mag, Shotty, Bow, Orb, Shotty, Nade, Shotty...

Who really cares if the Mag shoots zoomed!??!?!

Indeed!

in the ctf server where I was warned, it more like:

rocket, nade, nade, nade, orb, orb, shotty, shotty, shotty, rocket, rocket, orb, Ar2 ....................... (if you survive up to the Ar2 part and they even complaint for wich zoom you use... sigh)
Many players only use mag if the distance is too long, but some even whore the rockets from across the maps, over and over...

lmao, no idea where you read that thing about me, but yeah when it came out I tried it and liked it. Found it more comfortable than the original one.
I used it a lot when I was first giving it a try,but then I almost never used it, cuz I mainly played stock/competitive maps, and most of them aren't that big to justify the need to zoom imo (if you like doing so sure, keep at it, whatever floats your boat ;P). Like maybe on some areas of lockdown, or lostvillage, but I didn't really see myself needing to zoom. It does come in handy on killboxes and pubs with weird maps though!

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s ... oggle_zoom

Ghost Dog wrote:You know Onti was always a good player, he started using toggle zoom exclusively, long before anybody else.

Did Onti's magnum use increase? Not really because there are better weapons for most situations and he knows it.

Put a double shot of my favorite gun in your enemy and watch his aim go to ♥♥♥♥ because his aim is effected by my damage, if that fails take cover.

You don't have to come to them they must come to you, and I play competitive stock maps and killbox maps with the best in this game, mag isn't a problem.

I'd hate to burst anyones bubble, but I was using toggle_zoom just as long.

<--Needs credit when credit is due.

I refrain from Tiggy gnawing activities.

well, at least now I feel better. Those guys at the ctf server sometimes look like they still live in the 50's... I know they have noobs to protect from easy kills and stuff, but this is ridiculous...

No, those CTF folks just pawn your ass. Get use to it.

There is no such thing as CTF noobs!

Some of those folks would just headshot you all day.

The Argumentalizer wrote:No, those CTF folks just pawn your ass. Get use to it.

Actually, not meaning to brag about it, but I usually end up 1st or 2nd in the scores list in my team (out of 8 ppl), I contribute a LOT to my team's flag captures, and most times my team wins.

The Argumentalizer wrote:Some of those folks would just headshot you all day.

And that's pretty much my part in there (except when I'm in another one of those days...)

So there's not much I gotta get used to in there, if anything at all. I play in that server for almost 2 years. I've mostly overcome the spam whore's, and mag whore's aren't that much of a threat anymore.
This wasn't about being owned or owning, or having noobs or not to fight, it was about someone realising (spec) I was using toggle_zoom and reporting to an admin that happened to be there atm.

And I didn't say there's ctf noobs, I said there's noobs playing in their server. These noobs are just plain noobs, ppl that just started playing this game and many don't even know they are playing ctf or even what the hell is ctf. Those ppl is what I'm saying they try to protect from just quiting the game for good from getting frustrated cuz of easy-kill-seakers. Which I'm not. And probably that's why I'm not banned for breaking this rule.

i think argumentalizer was just joking skaruts xP.

<3 Ghost

oh btw, don't even waste your time with that rodivlad guy, iirc he has been on the steam forums since like .... forever, trying to argue that using toggle_zoom is wrong.

radivlad, heh, so I've noticed

But I remember saying something bad about it there too, at some point in time.
Fortunately I can't find my post lol

Unless the server specifically says "NO USING TOGGLE_ZOOM EVEN THOUGH ITS AVAILABLE TO USE" you should have no problem. Thats what I dont get, people complaining about things in game that are available to you. I had someone once complain about how fast I was able to switch weapons. I said "well check your advanced options and you can be switching just as fast." If I remember correctly, they complained about it being cheap or something. People will bitch about anything to make themselves look better.

And as long as Im on the subject of that, I joined this server called the AMM clan server or something. They had no motd so I couldnt see any specific rules. I went in there playing as normal as i could with low gravity and got a lesson from some hillbilly ass kid with an IQ of less than 10 about how I couldnt join spectate. "Only admins can join spectate...you understand me?"

It's the 5th time this week I've been banned by some idiot who thinks he knows how to run a server. Don't get me started on the people who ban me for having complete air control on low gravity servers and them not being able to hit me. "It's not fair for you to be able to move like that. We cant hit you" Then change your fucking settings already so it's not so easy for me to own you when your floating through the air and so its easier for you to hit me when im not doing 600 velocity circles around your head.

lol, I laugh a lot when kids spend "hours" saying anything and everything they can to make their point which in the end basically is "I'm admining this server". That's so hilarious

That reminds me of this funniest kid some days ago, saying he was admin in the jumpserver, and he could ban me and even using all the F words, but he didn't cuz he was a good guy and he was in a good mood, and insisted over and over again that he was admin bla bla bla, and he was gonna ban me if I didn't shut the fuck up "you fucker", till I said I was the one doing the admining there. And he said no I was not (about 10 times), and when I slaped him for abusing F and MF words, he left.
LOL OMFFG

Admining a jumpserver with noblock, nokill, keeper impulse plugin, etc, is pretty straightforward ^^. Theres not much to worry about, only the frustrated and verbally agressive and offensive kids(?) and mostly the mic spammers. I like that