respawn is random?

i would like to know if the spawnpoints for rebels and combines are the same or if there are specific spawnpoints for rebs and for combine. a freind told me that f.e. in lockdown the combines mostly spawn in shower area and the rebels mostly in the main part of the map. i didnt expereinced this so i wonder if anyone knows the "truth" about that.
i know that in some maps like runoff the spawnpoints are fixed for rebs and combine, but how is it for octa, ld, bio or other maps?

thx in advance

There are different types of spawnpoints in hl2dm:

info_player_deathmatch = all players are placed randomly

info_player_rebels / info_player_combine = team specific spawns - players from the relevant team are always placed on these.

lockdown uses the random spawns, runoff uses the team spawns. In fact I think runoff is the only official map that uses team spawns.

swamplight uses those team spawns.

boshed wrote:There are different types of spawnpoints in hl2dm:

info_player_deathmatch = all players are placed randomly

info_player_rebels / info_player_combine = team specific spawns - players from the relevant team are always placed on these.

lockdown uses the random spawns, runoff uses the team spawns. In fact I think runoff is the only official map that uses team spawns.

thx for your help!

I am not convinced it is completely random becasuse I see players I just killed spawn in my vicinity all the time and vice versa.

Yea I agree with Keefy. Ive seen times when every time you die you end up spawning right next to where you died instead of elsewhere. Seemed kinda odd to me.

boshed has explained everything : combine respawns and rebel ones for maps like runoff, else it's mixed.

One day I have taken a screenshot of lostv from the sky, printed it and then I have bind /kill to a key and I have written where I was respowning on the printed paper. I have done that dozens and dozens of times in a row to see if there were some strange stuff in the way I respawn. But no I promess you it looks very random. No cycle, etc...

Btw in other games like Quake Live there are 2 systems : the respawns are random but the algorithm try its best to make you respawn far away from your opponent to avoid you to be killed at respawn. In big maps its really a good thing when in small maps you can in a way control where you want your ennemy to appears by moving to a special location to make your opponent appears in another specific location you want. But when I see the number of respawn kills in HL2 I dont think there is such a system

Boshed is right, as usual
However I have had times where I've died on say the ladder in LD and respawnd there seconds later. This must be a bug in a server mod or something as it happens very infrequently, and I know for certain there are no spawns on ladders in LD.

Pig Popper wrote: However I have had times where I've died on say the ladder in LD and respawnd there seconds later. This must be a bug in a server mod or something as it happens very infrequently, and I know for certain there are no spawns on ladders in LD.

Had that myself, just a generic bug related to HL2DM's crap ladder system afaik.

In my limited map making experience, I also noticed that the "random" spawns seem to go in order of how they were created in the map. You made the spawns in order of 1, 2, 3 etc and they follow 1st, 2nd and 3rd to spawn in that order. It would be the sequence of who respawns that is random I suppose.

Paradox wrote:In my limited map making experience, I also noticed that the "random" spawns seem to go in order of how they were created in the map. You made the spawns in order of 1, 2, 3 etc and they follow 1st, 2nd and 3rd to spawn in that order. It would be the sequence of who respawns that is random I suppose.

So this got me interested and you're not the first person to mention this, think I saw somebody talking about it on interlopers. Science hat on

I made a test box with 4 spawns numbered in the order I added them then went in and killed myself a few times. Results were:

1, 3, 3, 3, 2, 1, 4, 1, 3, 4, 4, 2

Was interesting that I started at spawn 1 so reloaded the map and tried again:

3, 2, 2, 4, 3, 1, 1, 4, 3, 3, 3, 2

The weighting towards spawn 3 is most likely my small sample size. What would be fun to see is getting two people in it and placing one person near one of the spawns then repeatedly killing the other and seeing if their spawn is weighted towards the spawn they are near. Teamplay vs ffa results would be good to look at too as well as a full 4 players

I think it's a simple case of our natural tendancy to try to find patterns in randomness which any statistician can tell you all about.

If anybody wants to look at this further here's my test map (4 numbered spawns)

I strongly believe it's 100% random. Any spawn you make near something, or repeatedly somewhere, is mere coincidence. I had times on lockdown I spawned mostly on the showers, and times I spawned mostly on the charger. Never noticed any pattern in it.
hl2dm has no spawn control, afaik. But should...

Ty

Well nothing is really random with computers. I do not have time to mess around with it right now but in my previous mapping and coding experience there are some non random attributes associated with spawns. Any of these items may or may not be true, but at one time in either HLDM or HL2DM they were true as far as I know.

You used to be able to add a #1, #2 and so on to the name field I think in a map and force the game to spawn people in the order they were numbered.

If you boot up a map and play it you will usually start spawning in the same spot, if you completely shut the game down and start it up again it will happen again. The spawns are probably random based on server time not the computer time. So the first spawn may always be at time = 0 and there fore not really be random.

The spawn code has looked for things in the past to avoid. Usually a player to try to avoid telefragging. In HL2DM I believe it also looked for physics objects so by piling up objects on a spawn you may be able to manipulate where people spawn.

Respawning at ladder does happen and is a bug, if you die on a ladder you will usually respawn right there again.

The best thing to do if you really care would be to go look at the code and just read what it does. I highly doubt that the code is 100% random but there is not suppose to be a real bias such as spawn close or spawn far as in some other games.

Fearsome* wrote:You used to be able to add a #1, #2 and so on to the name field I think in a map and force the game to spawn people in the order they were numbered.

Must say I've never heard of this in all my time mapping for HLDM or HL2DM. (Its highly possible though, Valve do like to hide stuff well) It would be pretty cool for specific goal based maps like jump / training / objective though.

Fearsome* wrote: If you boot up a map and play it you will usually start spawning in the same spot, if you completely shut the game down and start it up again it will happen again. The spawns are probably random based on server time not the computer time. So the first spawn may always be at time = 0 and there fore not really be random.

I'm not getting this at all on my test map, totally random starts - haven't tried this on other maps yet though.

Fearsome* wrote: The spawn code has looked for things in the past to avoid. Usually a player to try to avoid telefragging. In HL2DM I believe it also looked for physics objects so by piling up objects on a spawn you may be able to manipulate where people spawn.

Now this is a really good point! If lots of spawns commonly become blocked with props then the pool of available spawns would be smaller leading to the weighting noticed by players. Would explain a lot.

Fearsome* wrote: The best thing to do if you really care would be to go look at the code and just read what it does. I highly doubt that the code is 100% random but there is not suppose to be a real bias such as spawn close or spawn far as in some other games.

Best suggestion tbh. I have an huge interest in this kind of stuff because 1) I'm a mapper and 2) I work on a mod. The more you know about your tools the better you can use them and all that stuff.

I'll have a word with our coder when he gets back and let you know anything interesting that comes from it.

There's maps that control spawns, but all they are ctf/cp maps and maybe the info_player_rebel/combine have options to tweek. I never looked into them...

Two maps I know that do this are ctf_warpath_b4b and ctf_avanti_b2c. Both are cp maps, actualy. And as you advance/retreat you spawn accordingly to the position of the highest point your team as captured so far.

All I know is that info_player_deathmatch has no options available. It's a "click and it's ready" entity.


EDIT: actualy, info_player_combine/rebel both have no options or flags either. Hmm, they must use teleports to control spawns in those maps...

Wow, this is the most in-depth discussion on spawning I have ever encountered. Very interesting read. I've only just touched the surface of mapping and understand how the spawn points work (random vs. rebel or combine) but how the randomness occurs is beyond me! I too have noticed in certain maps that I spawn at the nearest spawn point from where I died, how would random code be able to figure this out?!!?

dbanimal wrote:how would random code be able to figure this out?!!?

Randomly

i once spawned in the same place 4 times in a row on ld.

On top of the AR and orbs prolly.