New CPL: Don't be fooled

tl;dr

yeah someone give me a paragraph version of that sheet

Sounds like Scott Valencia and Angel Munoz are brothers.


Link

i lol'd.

What a fucking shithead.

heh. So the huge gaming community that CPL/CAL supported and were supported by get royally fucked. Nice.

Paradox wrote:heh. So the huge gaming community that CPL/CAL supported and were supported by get royally fucked. Nice.

Easy to do as the gaming community and market is one of the most unregulated market segments that exists anywhere in the world. It's easy as 1-2-3 to implement short term business models with the only objective in mind is to make short term profit at the expense of a community or the gamers themselves, and even the as far as the executives with the exception of a few. Angel Munoz and Scott Valencia both have realized this and have only run short term business models, essentially raping the community of money and understanding it'll fold in a short amount of time, in the process making millions.

Professional gamers the more time goes on and the more stories I read of half of their annual salary dissapearing into thin air come across as one of the most exploited professionals I've ever seen. Not really that hard when the exploited here (gamers) are usually young, niave and forced to sign ambigious contracts.

Va|iums wrote:

Paradox wrote:heh. So the huge gaming community that CPL/CAL supported and were supported by get royally fucked. Nice.

Easy to do as the gaming community and market is one of the most unregulated market segments that exists anywhere in the world. It's easy as 1-2-3 to implement short term business models with the only objective in mind is to make short term profit at the expense of a community or the gamers themselves, and even the as far as the executives with the exception of a few. Angel Munoz and Scott Valencia both have realized this and have only run short term business models, essentially raping the community of money and understanding it'll fold in a short amount of time, in the process making millions.

Professional gamers the more time goes on and the more stories I read of half of their annual salary dissapearing into thin air come across as one of the most exploited professionals I've ever seen. Not really that hard when the exploited here (gamers) are usually young, niave and forced to sign ambigious contracts.

How is this different from any other business?

Most business is long term.

Well if its a legit buisness you certainly hope so.
Plenty of fly by night operations out there that are here today, steal your money, gone tomorrow.

Well the more appropriate retort toward me would've been;

"Hey Va|iums! Whatso bad bout running short term business models, plenty pplz do it and the shelf life popularity of a game is short term anywayz !!@!@"

In which case I would've been forced to concede ground that indeed it is not a crime to run short term business models, but it is morally reprehensible because it only serves a very small group of people at the end or death of the corporate entity leaving everyone else without a job and only the executives with a golden parachute to either coast into retirement or invest it or use it to start their own business. Also in studies short term business models are 50% more likely to implement illegal activities to gain their objective, further clouding the moral and legal image of running a short term business.

Also I would also counter that point with Mr. Valencia and Mr. Angel underestimated lifespan of cs 1.6's popularity, as it has remained THE most popular steam game 10 years later since its birth, suggesting they had a lack of vision or just pure greed as evidenced by Mr. Valencia crawling back into the counterstrike scene 2 years later with an epic lie to redeem their image, which has been fatally tarnished once again. I could continue to rip you part but I would stop here so its not tl;dr.

However there is one video response that I would ulitmately submit to and declare myself a loser watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVwsygqozYc unfortunately I have no response to that and would become your bitch.

My statement is what it is.

My question is why do you guys think this is any different then any other industry. Fly by night operations and serial startups are common place in every segment of the economy. Making claims like the gaming market is unregulated or more susceptible to this just points out that people are making statements based on no real experience in the real world. The majority of all businesses in all sectors fail. What took place acording to the article linked is common place in every industry. Even the part where the investors try to hide who they are happens all the time thanks to serial startups. Venture capital is free money that many people are trying to exploit and that is exactly what happened here. Unfortunately for them they picked the worst time in decades to try to pull off their stunt and so they ended up with no venture capital to use.

Please do not read in between the lines either. I did not say it is right, in fact some of what happened was illegal. It is certainly sad that 2 once great leagues were demolished by this stupidity. I mean the CPL had alot of trouble but due to its name it always has a chance to come back and I am sure this will not be the end of it. But it doesnt change the fact this sort of thing happens all the time. Also regulation in the gaming market has nothing to do with anything. The gaming market is regulated by the same laws that all standard businesses are regulated by which actually factors into this story as they were forced to disclose business partners in certain steps. In fact I would say that she is kind of lucky her name wasnt on that stuff since technically she wont be liable if Angel and the CPL filed suit against The new cpl for their breech of contract.

Maybe the damage is done and it won't take of again.

Fearsome* wrote: Also regulation in the gaming market has nothing to do with anything. The gaming market is regulated by the same laws that all standard businesses are regulated by which actually factors into this story as they were forced to disclose business partners in certain steps.

As a pre-law student I can firmly say this is not true. Internet laws particularly in the international arena are in an infantile stage at best, and laws dealing with gaming associations is even less developed. Most of the law is being developed as we speak and most laws out there dealing with internet law are rather ambigious. To say federal prosecutors invest the same amount of time looking into claims gaming organizations and gamers have made against organizations such as CPL/CAL/Cevo is hardly true at all. Regulators rightly so are expending their money, time and efforts into more important things.

Also the ability to bring suit to enforce payment contracts in courts has never been seriously taken, the amount of prize money checks I've heard stories of disseapearing anywhere from the 1k-15k range would hardly cover costs to battle an organization such as CPL in court.

This is the opportunity for some entrepreneur out there to start a league that is not corrupt and run by a con man! Sorry I am too busy playing video games to do it...

Also, I couldn't make it the way through that whiney qq blog, so I hope I got the gist of it.

What does this have to do with internet law? You have a group attempting to purchase a company the things they do are all covered under existing laws. Was there something specific about this case a loop hole that the internet allowed them to exploit that could not have been pulled off by a company not involved with the internet?

Fearsome* wrote:What does this have to do with internet law? You have a group attempting to purchase a company the things they do are all covered under existing laws. Was there something specific about this case a loop hole that the internet allowed them to exploit that could not have been pulled off by a company not involved with the internet?

We have been talking about the past practices of CPL, not just this new lie they told. Internet law would be the domain of internet contracting, right of contractual monies payable by proof of internet activities, internet disception, misleading advertisement by internet ect ect ect. CPL's traditional claim in denying many prize monies was to say the player defamed the organization at some point, voiding the contract which becomes difficult as you have to sift through blogs, supposed dummy accounts made by CPL to pretend as if the player had defamed them, IP tracing, how libel applies in European standards and how it relates to American definition ect ect ect...

I think the larger point was to say international/federal/state regulators dont invest much time into internet gaming (non-gambling) and is not a high priority and thus receives little attention in the court system, and consequently little scrutiny in the legal world in general.

this article sounds too much like an attack from someone who got upset, because they were in over their head, what this valencia has done, doesnt even begin to compare to what most of the major world corporations did to get there, go look at exxon, they make valencia look like a nice old lady

yes wrote:this article sounds too much like an attack from someone who got upset, because they were in over their head, what this valencia has done, doesnt even begin to compare to what most of the major world corporations did to get there, go look at exxon, they make valencia look like a nice old lady

Except there's an organization thats running with very little corruption, ESEA. Simple way to sidestep human tendency of greed and corruption is to automate almost all the processes including the payment process which is what ESEA does. There is a way to run a relatively clean, good league and there is a way to be a total asshole and destroy your reputation to the point you need to hire an arab spokesperson to provide a massive lie so you can take everybodies money for a couple more years and run away again.

Are folks talking about scams or business. They are not synonymous.

Munoz is a scam artist.
Business creates a lasting value, service, product.

Munoz operates under a fog of lies and diversions.
Business operates by the rules and above board.

The Argumentalizer wrote: Business operates by the rules and above board.

i lol'd

edit: in response to ESEA, thats all well and good, but im sure that their profit margins are not nearly as great as an organization that is buit to maximize profits, im not saying its right, but a very successful and profit generating organization would bring with it the scrutiny you said the internet gaming industry is lacking, because as we all know money speaks louder than anything.

yes wrote:edit: in response to ESEA, thats all well and good, but im sure that their profit margins are not nearly as great as an organization that is buit to maximize profits, im not saying its right, but a very successful and profit generating organization would bring with it the scrutiny you said the internet gaming industry is lacking, because as we all know money speaks louder than anything.

I think ESEA has got it right, they do need work but I don't think it's too shifty.

Don't be fooled: Parts 2 & 3

http://www.complexitygaming.com/index.p ... ws&id=1716