About the ace banning

Once again I disappear for a weekend and something blows up.

I was going to suspend about a week ago when 2 other admims alerted me to the issue. You are expected to upload screen shots of the match to CAL. You forget 1 or have a connection problem we don't make any deal out of it unless its needed. But if you use the screen shot area to waste my time of which I invest alot of to CAL then you are going to get in trouble. I did not ban him right away for 2 reasons 1 I had to make sure that his suspension did not cause me to get into the playoffs. If moving him out moved myself or one of my teammates in then yes it would look to much like corruption and he probably would have been suspended at the start of the next season instead. And second another admin who was afraid of being called corrupt. But I am not going to have to put up with shit out of fear of being called corrupt. You want to play in a league any league then you are going to have to follow the rules and act like a mature person. If you cant do that you are going to get suspended.

At the time of the suspension I learned that we have a cheating issue in CAL and those players will be cleaned up soon as well. And quite frankly I am sick of people abusing the league so anyone who is screwing around was going to get nailed. So I went back and made good on my promise to suspend. If someone wants to come back after the a suspension and not cause trouble and waste time they are welcome to but this time it sticks cause they think the league is a joke and he can do anything they pleases cause the popular majority will come to the rescue. You don't run around causing nothing but problems in the community then break the rules and expect admins to just bend over for you, and I thought it was terrible that other admins where afraid to straiten it out cause of shit like this, you people are terrible basically telling them they can't administrate the league based on right and wrong to keep people in line but rather have to do it based on popularity. If grape had done this no one would have made a peep if he was suspended go figure and if I keep letting people do it then it will get out of control. And Ace was suspended from this site as well so I don't think that his suspension was isolated or should have even been a surprise to him.

It is also annoying that people are leaving important information out of the story when trying to further their cause and calling admins corrupt, how hypocritical and ironic.

Fearsome* wrote: It is also annoying that people are leaving important information out of the story when trying to further their cause and calling admins corrupt, how hypocritical and ironic.

Then fill us in. : )

There are gloring holes still left open, in fact your explanation of the suspension made things even more confusing. One it is obvious you don't like ace, it's unbecoming of a person of such power in league to openly admit you do not like him, and that somehow his conduct OUTSIDE of the league seems to jade your decisions IN league. If this league involved professional players and money your conduct and openness of a personal vendetta would get you cut quicker then Ace threatens to beat up 15 year olds. Furthermore CAL rules state

2.1 Screenshots


All players must take a screenshot of the initial console upon either joining the server or upon change to the match map, to display the servers sv_pure mode. Screenshots must be taken of the opposing player before the match start as well, along with the console status displaying the names and steamids of all within the server. All players must also take screenshots of the final round(s) scoreboard. This can NOT be a screenshot of the scoreboard before the match has ended. In the event of a dispute, if the disputed party fails to provide screenshots, automatic forfeiture will result.


Why was ace given a full suspension instead of forfeiture of the match, what special circumstance qualified Ace to be suspended rather then have a forfeiture placed upon his record, I expect you have a good reason for this, if not then well then, I hope the community wrath upon you ensues.

At the time of the suspension I learned that we have a cheating issue in CAL and those players will be cleaned up soon as well.

What do you mean... someone is cheating??? can we know who? or at least have a yes or no

Screen shots were not simply missing they, rather they were replaced with something else, what does that fall under? Why are you people trying to be Lawyers. There are some things that cannot be defined by the set rules that is where admin discretion comes in and that is why any league and any game in the world enacts rules that give the regulators power to take care of unforeseen or rare circumstances. If that was the case the computer would simply scan for false or missing shots and auto suspend. Rules were broken rules all over set 2.7. Do the admins have to make a specific rules and stick to it no matter what the circumstances and if someone is busy causing problems they just have to suck it up till next season? Can admins never make exceptions when they deem the offense accidental? I simply look at this for what it is one player is being malicious in intent, a screen shot was not accidentally missing. And it is fairly pathetic that we get nothing but complaints from back seat drivers.

If i entered cal, then started abusing ppl in the middle of matches, then flaming them on the cal forums, i would get suspended yes?
What rule/'s does that go under cause surely what ace done falls under the same rules.

I think the main problem here is that everyone here knows about the rift between you and ace, we all have seen you go round and round on IRC, so this just looks like a personal issue from most peoples standpoint.
A point you sorta touched on is that if it was grape no one would care, in fact Im quite sure if grape had uploaded a picture of emma watson nothing would have happened to him at all, so lets not set double standards or carry out revenge on someone just because you don't like him or what he has done to your friends or teammates.

You had to know this was going to blow up in your face when you did this and frankly as a former admin I do not think the punishment fits the crime. We all know Ace is not the model cal player but this just seems really petty. If he was missing a screenshot or supplied a picture of luke instead, you should have requested him to supply it.

I think you can see by the outpouring of support from people who do not care for ace you made a bad decision on this and for the most part I think the majority of players want him in the playoffs as you can see by the poll. In the end you have to make the decision though without letting your personal feelings get in the way, be unbiased and I honestly dont think you have here.

I think if grape uploaded a pic of emma watson he would most likely get a waring, but if he posted a pic that was intended to flame someone he would get the same deal.
Well u would think so anyways.

Pernicious wrote:I think if grape uploaded a pic of emma watson he would most likely get a waring, but if he posted a pic that was intended to flame someone he would get the same deal.
Well u would think so anyways.

no it would never have been looked at in the first place unless there was a dispute.

Regardless of generally boorish behavior, it seems the reason Ace was suspended is not even an offense warranting suspension. If there are other offenses causing the suspension, they should be out in the open if you really want to instruct on the rules and clean up behavior. You admit you are making an example but you do not supply the lesson or reasons.

That can lead folks to become terrible and play lawyer while you play judge and jury.
Maybe you should have brought your admin to bear on this matter or clarified the situation.
If Ace was doing worse than we know, why isnt it revealed in the suspension? And what is this diversion about cheating? What is that all about?
All this IS compounded by the fact he sent an image of your teammate. I don't think this is anything to do with corruption, but you could have recused yourself and left it to a vote of three admin.

I never had a problem at all with ace, the few matches we played were really fun, and so I'm sorry, but I can't really defend him on this one.
I don't think he can upload a picture flamming another member of the league, as fearsome said "to waste my time of which I invest alot of to CAL" and not be punished.
If I did that and nobody did anything, I would seriously laugh at CAL and think I can do whatever I feel like, cuz admins wouldn't do anything.
Anyway, just thought I could throw my personal opinion into the discussion....

Specifics of any situation are not suppose to be discussed by CAL admins it has already gone to far.

As an admin I often make a decision of the harshness of my action based on this simple assessment. Was the person accidentally breaking the rules or was it intentional. If it was knowingly intentional IMO then a harsh punishment comes down to make sure people are well aware that it will not be tolerated and to reduce the workload all admins take. When people cause problems even when no one seems to be hurt several hours of time were wasted discussing an issue making a verdict and then reading forums about it. If it was ignorance or accidental it is usually light and I try to help the player understand and fix the problem. You will hate me if you are a problem causer but you will like me if you are accidentally in a situation.

When something is like that there is simply no excuse for doing it. And there is no reason someone should be given a slap on the wrist. Now hopefully everyone knows better since it had to be discussed. Where were all of you when we chopped people out of the league and deleted their teams for reporting false wins or only missed one match but we knew it was a CS team just screwing with us? Thats right no one cared to defend them even though the move was discretionary and not spelled out exactly usually sportsman ship was the way it was covered.

If you read through the rules check out 2.7 about sportsman ship and the punishment of suspensions. When you are thinking about trying to pull a stunt and get away with it cause you do not see a rule then it will probably fall under that.

0nti wrote:I never had a problem at all with ace, the few matches we played were really fun, and so I'm sorry, but I can't really defend him on this one.
I don't think he can upload a picture flamming another member of the league, as fearsome said "to waste my time of which I invest alot of to CAL" and not be punished.
If I did that and nobody did anything, I would seriously laugh at CAL and think I can do whatever I feel like, cuz admins wouldn't do anything.
Anyway, just thought I could throw my personal opinion into the discussion....

Totally agree with you mate

well, my aggression to defend ace has cooled off after hearing the rumors he sent something "terrible" to Fearsome for the screenshot, how absolutely stupid. Just sad in fact. Still the saber rattling was provoked with admins randomly asking for screenshots against a player they don't like, both sides are to be punished here, and both will.

Were they looking?
Or were they informed?
Or do they check them all?

"Where were all of you when we chopped people out of the league and deleted their teams for reporting false wins or only missed one match but we knew it was a CS team just screwing with us?"

Was that a discovery of an admin or was it reported by someone competing?
This is a case to apply the above to, its all the same shit for all the same reasons.

People seem to be unable to get past the fact that fearsome isnt a fanboy of ace.
Not suspending someone because ur dislike for someone is publicly known is still allmost as bad as suspending them for your dislike.
The rules should be enforced to keep order.

Fearsome* wrote: At the time of the suspension I learned that we have a cheating issue in CAL and those players will be cleaned up soon as well.

dang *caught* me the jig is up, lock me up and throw away the key.

As a truly unbiased, outside opinion, I would have to say a suspension seems entirely appropriate to me. It would happen in any CAL league, not just this one. You cannot attack someone's character and expect to be slapped on the wrist. If you guys, as so many of you claim, want this league to be legitimate and taken seriously, then Fearsome is doing a brave thing in standing up for HL2DM, not his teammate. He is willing to be the fall guy and deal with the repercussions of his decision. I'm sure he knows this will not make him any more popular, but he's never struck me as the type of guy to care about a popularity contest. I am willing to bet if someone had sent a questionable SS of me that the same outcome would apply.

After having met in person some of the "high ups" in CAL, they most certainly would have suspended him, if not even permanently banned him. They do not put up with seemingly harmless jokes. They are running a professional gaming league. Ace may not have predicted a suspension, but if he truly is an advocate of this game, and wants it taken seriously, he should have thought of that before the offense that occurred. If you all truly want this game to thrive, a punishment is due. And if the league falls apart because ONE player is ousted, then it is meant to fail. After all, it would be the community who let it fail, not a player being suspended.....

My assessment of this situation from reading the various posts on the topic seem to be nothing more than an attack on Fearsome's character, if anything. In aboslutely none of the rules I've ever read does it state Fear has to explain his decision. While it may go a long way towards saving some face, it is his choice to further divulge info, not anyone's right to know. Ace knows why, and Fear knows why, case closed. There are routes that can be taken if Ace feels this is unjust, mainly all I see are a bunch of people using this as an excuse to jump all over one of a very small group of people who make this HL2DM world go around. If everyone think's he is corrupt, then shame on you all for not organizing to have him removed sooner. I do not know him, but do not believe for one second Fear is enacting a personal vendetta against a particular player. I believe he wants this game to succeed more than just about anyone. And it never will unless serious actions beget serious consequences.

"Where were all of you when we chopped people out of the league and deleted their teams for reporting false wins or only missed one match but we knew it was a CS team just screwing with us? Thats right no one cared to defend them even though the move was discretionary and not spelled out exactly usually sportsman ship was the way it was covered."

These are entirely separate issues. The community was involved in helping admin on these issues.
We arent talking about folks who never intended to play or reported false wins. I dont know what that has to do with anything. Why would anyone defend them?

I dont know Ace and im not even inclined to defend him, but there are a couple troubling issues.
First, who requested SS's and for what reason? Again, it seems Fearsome requested them. For what reason? Was there a dispute? There is a question as to why the SS was required by Fearsome.
Second, Fearsome suspended Ace for missing screenshot, which should have lead to a forfeit, not a suspension. If Ace had forfeited, everything would have gone down differently. Then the only thing is why the SS was requested ^^^^^. The fact a forfeit effectively results in the same thing as a suspension is immaterial. they are still not the same thing.
Third, reasons given for the suspension after the fact, do not comport with the official reasons stated in the notice. This is a problem. The notice should have contained "Flaming and un-sportsman-like behavior". In fact, a full suspension requires this under the rules, it seems.

From what i know NOW, i don't have a problem in my mind with this matter but it should have been handled a good bit better. All of this could have been avoided if the real suspension reasons had been notified, other admin concurred or voted, or if Fearsome had handed the whole matter over to other admin.

It is not too much to ask that admin of an amateur league operate with some transparency.

And Dirk is off a bit. The whole issue is NOT whether Ace deserved to be suspended. It is that he was suspended for Missing SS, which lead to all this speculation.
It seems Fearsome fell short of a couple of easy quick steps that would have made this all a non-issue

There is still a problem. Although, a forfeit ends Ace's season, he could dispute the whole suspension based on the rules. Not that it would help, but Missing SS's still add to forfeit.
How can flaming and general behavior be used as a reason for suspension when it is not used as a reason for suspension? Again, it seems Fearsome wanted to instruct and enforce the rules but left out the real instruction and reasons that for suspension that would have made people think DING! "Ace pulled some stupid shit" End of discussion and the world continues on.

Can you post/upload the image he uploaded?

lmfao

I heard kigha was a guy btw. ouch!

next time, don't lie in the reason you suspend someone.

cause you ban him and go hide in a hole. For missing ss's But when he can complain that he has all his ss's and show other ppl this it will cause shit.

"missing screenshots" <- Ace can run around and complain to people saying "CAL corrupt" and show all the proper screenshots.
"using Cal Screenshot system to abuse an admin" <- that would have been fine and no one would have questioned it.

ninojman wrote:"using Cal Screenshot system to abuse an admin" <- that would have been fine and no one would have questioned it.

Yes, but if I am to understand it correctly, if that category had been selected he would have been suspended for 1 year instead of 3 months.

Well, ill say it once more, maybe that what ace did wasnt really "acceptable" but, i dont think you should suspend him right before the playoffs, since this could therefore change the outcome of the playoffs.

So we are supposed to look the other way because he made the playoffs? That IS outright BULLSHIT! He broke the rules, plain and simple and it wasnt a simple missing screen shot. He used the CAL system for his OWN agenda to get at another player and an admin. He has been relentless in his quest to do this. Ace is not stupid, he knew what he was doing and he did it anyway. If he had kept it out of the CAL system he would still be in CAL. Using the CAL system for this kind of abuse of ANYONE should not be tolerated. This is not about Fearsome and Aces love hate relationship its about unsportsmanlike conduct. If I had been GM I would have done the same thing Fearsome did. Ace deserves it and its not up to the community to decide whether it is appropriate or not.

Yes we have seen Fearsome and Ace go round and round in IRC (how many other people have had similar go rounds? Almost everyone in IRC has), but not once did Fearsome ban him or kick him from the channel that I saw. He has also been attacked in there many times by different people and again I have never seen him kick someone out of the channel for it. Overall he has been pretty lenient when he could have not been. The CAL website is down so I still have to check but if its true that abuse of a admin carries a 1 year suspension but a missing screenshot only carries a month or whatever then there again he showed leniency. If he really wanted to get Ace out of CAL wouldnt a 1 year suspension be a better way to do it instead of a month?

Ok Fire away....

suspend the bitch for a year, no one would care and i think thats the point nino was trying to make, most of us don't disagree about him being punished, infact i think he was looking for a ban just for this to happen and to avoid getting raped by pb in the playoffs.

only a few people are crying about him being punished, i don't think what he did was that bad, but rules are rules, like i've said many times, its not the punishment thats pissing me and several others off, its the way the problem was presented to the community by the admins.

Paradox, was that really necessary?

Well I was the only admin on IRC pretty much all of yesterday. I didnt feel as though it was my place to discuss it. We have a very competent 1v1 admin in Ko-Tau and IMO it was up to him and Fearsome to let the details be known if they should be known.

As far as how it was reported in the Suspension notice, there may be a list of reasons people can be suspended, there may not be any room to elaborate the details and if specific things carry specific suspension times then the way it was presented in the notice may only be because Fearsome didnt want to suspend him for a year and felt that the time given was more appropriate. I have to check but the CAL site is still down.

Impala, your last post depicting the "apparent" things that happened was totally off base. People need to stop the conjecture and the insinuation. Unfortunatly in cases like these, everyone eats up the gossip and the rumor and the story gets more and more further from the truth the further it goes.

There isnt one thing OFF BASE in that post. Would you like to dispute something in the post?
Heh?
Got any examples of where im off base?
Im waiting

Also, you use apparent in quotes. I didnt use it once.

Paradox wrote: Yes we have seen Fearsome and Ace go round and round in IRC (how many other people have had similar go rounds? Almost everyone in IRC has),

yea but not everyone in IRC is a CAL admin and imo fearsome and ace going at it publicly on irc, makes CAL look more of a joke than ace sending him some picture of luke.

You dont know what happened Impala. You're wrong about what did and didn't happen. Stop making up shit.

Blas. So CAL admins arent allowed to have a disagreement with other people even when provoked?
The 4 threads started on this topic are the joke. All of us gossiping like a bunch of old ladies around a card table is a joke.
The fact that people just make crap up to give themselves a thrill over conspiracy theories is a joke.

Paradox wrote:You dont know what happened Impala. You're wrong about what did and didn't happen. Stop making up shit.

Blas. So CAL admins arent allowed to have a disagreement with other people even when provoked?
The 4 threads started on this topic are the joke. All of us gossiping like a bunch of old ladies around a card table is a joke.
The fact that people just make crap up to give themselves a thrill over conspiracy theories is a joke.

i 'm not say that just saying their are better ways to go about doing that, instead of airing your dirty laundry in public.

(All quotes by Paradox, I don't know how to do that "____ wrote" thing)

Paradox wrote:You dont know what happened Impala. You're wrong about what did and didn't happen. Stop making up shit.

...

Paradox wrote:I know the suspension says "missing a screen shot" but it might be that there is a list of available reasons for banning and there is no room for elaboration.

STRIKE 1

Paradox wrote:The CAL website is down so I still have to check but if its true that abuse of a admin carries a 1 year suspension but a missing screenshot only carries a month or whatever then there again he showed leniency.

STRIKE 2

Paradox wrote:As far as how it was reported in the Suspension notice, there may be a list of reasons people can be suspended, there may not be any room to elaborate the details and if specific things carry specific suspension times then the way it was presented in the notice may only be because Fearsome didnt want to suspend him for a year and felt that the time given was more appropriate. I have to check but the CAL site is still down.

STRIKE 3!!!

Whether it's true or not, you used this in three posts to defend Fearsome without verifying it first. Blah blah blah the CAL site was down I know I know, you had no way to check your facts. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE BECASUE NOBODY TOLD US WHAT THE HELL WAS REALLY GOING ON!!!! You can't ban someone from the playoffs with a punishment that didn't fit the crime (at least the crime that was posted) and expect the community to just take your word that it was "the right thing to do". Paradox your a volunteer 2v2 CAL admin making agressive posts on a unofficial forum FFS! I trust you about as much as I trust the new guy or ace or anybody else. And its absolutly the community's business to know whats going on. If we can't get it directly from the source, we will find other means of getting it. And sure, rumors spred quickly but that's why it's good that this stuff is put out in the open.

"You dont know what happened Impala. You're wrong about what did and didn't happen. Stop making up shit up."

Yes i do. Ace was asked for a missing screenshot for some reason and sent a photo of Luke instead.

Again, what did i make up?
Maybe you should stop interjecting your own nonsense into this.
I didnt even attack Fearsome. I merely said it should have been handled differently, which should be obvious to even you.

lols, ok, so what are you guys fighting about then eh

Ace broke rules.
Admin enforced rules but was soft on punishment, very soft.
Community has whinge and calls admin corrupt, as it is known that said admin thinks Ace is a dickhead(or something along those lines).
Facts are presented to the community.
Some people are still whinging. But wat about? The punishment?

Fearsome is an admin, he has to enforce the rules. He was pretty generous about it, and even hesitated. Full stop anyone?

Im not involved in cal but reading thread as an admin is interesting.. 
its hard when u dont like someone and have 2 act but if ur open about it then ul b less likely 2 abuse ur power. Lets face it u cant like everyone so tats not teh problem here x0x0:-P

edit :

i thought sense everyone else was making there own post about it id be cool and do it too.

omg omg omg ace ace ace wrote:i like ace and enjoy playing with him and dont have any animosity towards him

but i dont get what you people dont understand.....

2.7..................................

http://caleague.com/?page=rules#2.7

its obvious it wasn't about a missing screen shot, and i don't have "solid proof" but it seems that the whole uploading inappropriate picture thing would make sense

also how many places do you go.. anwhere... where you can demand private information regarding something that does not involve you? shit half the time you are denied information about your self.

as for the reason that was posted on the cal site for the suspension.. .was he missing a ss? yes. Did he allegedly (for the sake of discussion and only reasonable product from hearsay) break 2.7? yes. If maybe they had just said he was suspended for 2.7 instead of missing SS would this whole edrama bs never started? probally not, cuase you all would still want to know why.

its easy to bitch and do nothing in return.


and i wondering if conspiring againts cal admins on a public forum is in breech of 7.1 STICK IT TO THE MAN!

To: Fearsome*

4v4 RULE

3.40 Players

Four on Four play is MANDATORY; the only time at which uneven play will be accepted is in the event of connection issues causing TEMPORARY mid-match problems with any given player. As suggested by several other portions of this ruleset, the use of non-rostered, suspended, or otherwise ineligible players in a CAL match is not allowed under any circumstances. Doing so will result in a suspension or extended suspension of the individual in question, and may result in match overturn.

I'd like you to share the screenshots between you/flas with the community.

and keep in mind, this match is the only reason you made playoffs and the reason another clan got knocked out.

Paradox wrote:Ace is not stupid, he knew what he was doing and he did it anyway.

he did it for the lulz

Poor_Billy wrote:To: Fearsome*

4v4 RULE

3.40 Players

Four on Four play is MANDATORY; the only time at which uneven play will be accepted is in the event of connection issues causing TEMPORARY mid-match problems with any given player. As suggested by several other portions of this ruleset, the use of non-rostered, suspended, or otherwise ineligible players in a CAL match is not allowed under any circumstances. Doing so will result in a suspension or extended suspension of the individual in question, and may result in match overturn.

I'd like you to share the screenshots between you/flas with the community.

and keep in mind, this match is the only reason you made playoffs and the reason another clan got knocked out.

thats pretty fucken fucked, so whos not going to make it to the playoffs? flas?

st00pidity wrote:

Poor_Billy wrote:To: Fearsome*

4v4 RULE

3.40 Players

Four on Four play is MANDATORY; the only time at which uneven play will be accepted is in the event of connection issues causing TEMPORARY mid-match problems with any given player. As suggested by several other portions of this ruleset, the use of non-rostered, suspended, or otherwise ineligible players in a CAL match is not allowed under any circumstances. Doing so will result in a suspension or extended suspension of the individual in question, and may result in match overturn.

I'd like you to share the screenshots between you/flas with the community.

and keep in mind, this match is the only reason you made playoffs and the reason another clan got knocked out.

thats pretty fucken fucked, so whos not going to make it to the playoffs? flas?

I had talked to nino and fearsome about this, and what i was told by the admins was that if both teams agree to it its fine. sister, we had 4 people, they didnt. i dont see why we wouldnt go to playoffs.

Zman42 wrote:

st00pidity wrote:

Poor_Billy wrote:To: Fearsome*

4v4 RULE

3.40 Players

Four on Four play is MANDATORY; the only time at which uneven play will be accepted is in the event of connection issues causing TEMPORARY mid-match problems with any given player. As suggested by several other portions of this ruleset, the use of non-rostered, suspended, or otherwise ineligible players in a CAL match is not allowed under any circumstances. Doing so will result in a suspension or extended suspension of the individual in question, and may result in match overturn.

I'd like you to share the screenshots between you/flas with the community.

and keep in mind, this match is the only reason you made playoffs and the reason another clan got knocked out.

thats pretty fucken fucked, so whos not going to make it to the playoffs? flas?

I had talked to nino and fearsome about this, and what i was told by the admins was that if both teams agree to it its fine. sister, we had 4 people, they didnt. i dont see why we wouldnt go to playoffs.

I'm saying if SW got a forfeit loss for breaking the rules, they wouldn't make playoffs. You obviously would.

rules are rules, I don't see why it matters if both teams agree

So what, you don't want $W in the playoffs? both teams agreed, the match has been played, its not any of your business how the match was played, they won that's it that's all.

between

3.10 ( No agreement can ever exist between two teams to play a CAL match in violation of official CAL rules )

3.40 (Four on Four play is MANDATORY; the only time at which uneven play will be accepted is in the event of connection issues causing TEMPORARY mid-match problems with any given player)

i think that there is room for discussion, but not here or under these conditions.

Cheese as I stated I did not feel it was up to me to reveal anything regarding this incident at the time that this blew up. I was the only admin on IRC most of the weekend that appeared to know anything. I "was not at liberty to discuss it" because even though I am a volunteer admin, we have a set of guidelines we are told to follow. If you disagree with that then thats your opinion.The admins should follow the rules. You wouldnt want me to go against those guidelines would you? The higher CAL admins have decided that the community does not have a right to know everything, Neither I nor Ko-Tao, Nino or Fearsome made it up.

CoNfuSed wrote:So what, you don't want $W in the playoffs? both teams agreed, the match has been played, its not any of your business how the match was played, they won that's it that's all.

are you serious?

you're right, how stupid of all of us to think that these rules don't apply to everyone, wtf is wrong with us?

applause for sw for just scrape'n by in the season and then bending the rules to work for them to make it into playoffs, how fucking honorable!

it's not about wanting them in the playoffs, but to be perfectly honest, 1 ability i have that it appears you're not equipped with, i don't want them in playoffs. I don't think they earned it and the position would be better off in the hands of a new team that worked hard for it and abided by the rules.

well see, to be honest like you say, im pretty sure that even if they had 4 and 4v4'd us, they would've won, especially on that map, so even if we were to re-do the match, the outcome would most likely be the same.

Paradox wrote:Cheese as I stated I did not feel it was up to me to reveal anything regarding this incident at the time that this blew up. I was the only admin on IRC most of the weekend that appeared to know anything. I "was not at liberty to discuss it" because even though I am a volunteer admin, we have a set of guidelines we are told to follow. If you disagree with that then thats your opinion.The admins should follow the rules. You wouldnt want me to go against those guidelines would you? The higher CAL admins have decided that the community does not have a right to know everything, Neither I nor Ko-Tao, Nino or Fearsome made it up.

None of this is about you. Why do you keep tossing yourself in it. Everyone knows you had nothing to do with it and i have seen no one accuse you of anything. So, why do you continue to cry foul?
WTF are you talking about?

Everyone is entitled to express their opinion on the matter, regardless of whether anyone else feels it is relevant or not.

Walking Target wrote:Everyone is entitled to express their opinion on the matter, regardless of whether anyone else feels it is relevant or not.

Thanks.

Heres my final word on the subject:

holy bitch and moan.

bahlk wrote:between

3.10 ( No agreement can ever exist between two teams to play a CAL match in violation of official CAL rules )

not a lot of wiggle room with that one. what pb mentioned does seem inappropriate in view of that rule.

Impala. People wanted to know why and they kept asking why, what happened and what's going on.. yadda yadda.

Being the person I am I WANT to help people where I can. I've been a teacher and now I work in a public agency where when people ask questions it is my job to help them find the answer or to help them understand why things are the way they are. As admin we get asked questions about CAL all the time. So the desire to help people is programmed. I felt awkward and kinda bad about not being able to answer peoples questions. So when people say "no one was telling us...", I quess to some extent I still do. Not trying to make this about me just trying to explain why people could not know.

Para, i respect you. Everyone knows none of this is your doing. I just don't understand why you continually have to explain yourself.
The point i was making was that all this should have gone down differently. In fact, had Fearsome turned this matter over to the other admin, this thing would never have blown up.
The combined weight of Nino, Para, Ko... would have rendered the whole issue down to why the suspension and not a forfeit.
Ace should have received a forfeit for the original charge AND been suspended for unsportsman-like conduct for taunting an admin. End of drama.

Maybe this is all a very good lesson instead of a giant bitch fest.

I have also had respect for Fearsome, till now.
His allowance of, on top of his participation in, a 3 v 4 in CAL is a flagrant breaking of the rules. It also vaulted $W into the playoffs.
As much as i hate to say it, no matter how hard Fearsome has worked for CAL, he should resign or be impeached.

GOODNIGHT!

65 Impala SS wrote:Para, i respect you. Everyone knows none of this is your doing. I just don't understand why you continually have to explain yourself.
The point i was making was that all this should have gone down differently. In fact, had Fearsome turned this matter over to the other admin, this thing would never have blown up.
The combined weight of Nino, Para, Ko... would have rendered the whole issue down to why the suspension and not a forfeit.
Ace should have received a forfeit for the original charge AND been suspended for unsportsman-like conduct for taunting an admin. End of drama.

Maybe this is all a very good lesson instead of a giant bitch fest.

I have also had respect for Fearsome, till now.
His allowance of, on top of his participation in, a 3 v 4 in CAL is a flagrant breaking of the rules. It also vaulted $W into the playoffs.
As much as i hate to say it, no matter how hard Fearsome has worked for CAL, he should resign or be impeached.

lil harsh eh?

65 Impala SS wrote:Para, i respect you. Everyone knows none of this is your doing. I just don't understand why you continually have to explain yourself.
The point i was making was that all this should have gone down differently. In fact, had Fearsome turned this matter over to the other admin, this thing would never have blown up.
The combined weight of Nino, Para, Ko... would have rendered the whole issue down to why the suspension and not a forfeit.
Ace should have received a forfeit for the original charge AND been suspended for unsportsman-like conduct for taunting an admin. End of drama.

Maybe this is all a very good lesson instead of a giant bitch fest.

I have also had respect for Fearsome, till now.
His allowance of, on top of his participation in, a 3 v 4 in CAL is a flagrant breaking of the rules. It also vaulted $W into the playoffs.
As much as i hate to say it, no matter how hard Fearsome has worked for CAL, he should resign or be impeached.

GOODNIGHT!

impala, playing a 3v4 gave them the win....would you say its fair to assume a 4v4 would also have given them the win? is flas disputing the match? no we are not. if we didnt 3v4 that night we would have 4v4'ed the next night, with a similar outcome. I dont see why people are suddenly erupting out of the woodwork to bash fearsome. He explained his actions towards the ace incident, and i respect his decisions, i think he did the right thing after some consideration.

No, it is not fair to assume

that's part of my problem Z. if it could have been played the next night 4v4, why even make the decision? it just shouldn't have happened. other teams may not have even thought about such a compromise because of the rule and took a ffw or missed a makeup. just a bit unfair under the current rule structure.

but i chalk it up to an innocent mistake. nothing nefarious. maybe the rule should be changed on that to allow more admin discretion. maybe not.

we had already taken the ffw...we could play any time without fear of getting forfietted...so we opted to play that night..meh

Zman- You opted to break the rules. You seem to think its OK to break the league rules because the outcome is ok with you.
There is another phrase for this: The ends justify the means, which, is a moral impossibility.

Here is a breakdown of lowpoints, in my opinion, in CAL this season:
Teams not deactivated after two FLs'
Teams not responding to Matchcomm.
A mysterious and opportune request for a SS from Ace by Fearsome.
A suspension instead of the proper forfeit
Ace not properly forfeiting for the Missing SS under the rules.
Ace not being suspended longer for the real reason for the original bogus suspension.
An Admin breaking CAL rules to play a 3 v 4.

If the rules mean nothing, get rid of them.

65 Impala SS wrote:Zman- You opted to break the rules. You seem to think its OK to break the league rules because the outcome is ok with you.

Um what the fuck?
I'm done here..maybe fearsome can come up with something to get you off your fucking high horse

I don't have a problem with teams playing 4v3, I just told them not to tell me about it this season since of that rule is pretty harsh. The Goal of this league is to play and have fun, you need some standards though. And I will review the 4v4 rules as there are somethings i'd like to add and remove and some i would want to rework. The 4v4 rule being one i would like to rework to closer to the STA standard which imo was fair enough and gave teams some room to play matches instead of getting / forcing forfeits. As in something along these lines 4v4 is a must, any team with only 3 will have to give up a forfeit after the 15 minute grace period. If the team with 4 agrees to 4v3 or 3v3 it is up to them. With the heavy weight on forfeits in cal it may need to be counted as more points then a normal forfeit to be fair. As 4v3 can be a disadvantage to the team with 4 sometimes.

Also with $w getting +2 forfeits i was close to cloing them out, but i saw them get active and i bent those rules in favor of more matches getting played. As Fearsome said on IRC no matter who the admin is they are going to take shit for being unfair. I saw it in dods, took it in STA. Shit i'm taking it now in 4v4, I even got it in draft. And Fearsome gets it's now. Dezo and trash took it in STA and when they moved to CAL. Bio_guass took heat for it in AAT and he quti. But Facts are facts and after Bio_guass couldn't take the shit any more He gave up and closed the AAT league in 04. Which i wanted to play in, so he gave me admin powers. But i was building my team wrw and didn't have the time to run a user based leauge. So with the Help of Dezo, Trash and the experience of phoenix. I e-mailed all of the teams in AAT and did some server hopping finding [TMx] and other random pub teams to sign on to the idea of STA requested a league to be started and got it. The entire time of STA I had a different line-up of players every week, recruiting players over the weekend. And after teams would drop out of STA from the format I had to recruit new teams. All of this took a lot of time to put together. Dezo, trash quti for Cal 3v3 soon to go afk and let the Cal 3v3 die in week 7 due to admin inactivity. After going 0-5 in sta Rhideon Got the admin job for Sta and kept that league active. And Making it into a standard league Format 8 week format with playoffs.

Idk there is just a history of league play up until sta season 1 started. And you can either sit around and complain or just join the league and have your fun. But the admins put in lots of work to do what they do. In other games it is easy, you can be harsh on all of your rules without fear of losing teams, Hl2dm will never be a big money game so there isn't anything to winning it just has to be for fun and sport. So before you get mad at Fearsome, Ko, Para, or Me. Just know this was one of the best seasons that hl2dm has had.

Zman,yeah, you are done. You also broke CAL rules.

I don't care what connitptions or mental contortions you go through, the rules still state what is and what is not required.

They clearly state NO 3 V 4s will take place.
3.40- Players- "Four on Four play is MANDATORY; the only time at which uneven play will be accepted is in the event of connection issues causing TEMPORARY mid-match problems with any given player."

Also- 3.10 Team Agreements
"No agreement can ever exist between two teams to play a CAL match in violation of official CAL rules."
AND!- 6.80 Failure to Compete
"Intentionally choosing to forfeit a match or otherwise not playing two matches in a row will result in the suspension and removal of the offending team.

Whatever blab comes out of your hole does not change this."

And WOW- 6.70 Rule Violations
"Players who violate any rule(s) as previously listed will be subject to disciplinary action. Where not specified, the duration of league suspensions will be determined by senior league officials.
Players that consistently engage in immediately and repetitive abusive or unsportsmanlike conduct will be removed from the league in their entirety."

hmmmmm.

ok impala would you like to tell me how long all 5 of our players and all 14 of sw's players are suspended for? I'm sure you know best.
It's like you dont even read what other people, namely nino, are writing before you spew whatever comes to mind. You are only involved in this at all because pb brought it up, but suddenly it offends your sense of sportsmanship.

Why dont you answer that, since you seem to make up the rules yourself.
Think i will forward the whole affair up the line just for giggles.

Wow Impala stop bitching like you can do much about it besides quitting please and thank you, this post will probably get me in trouble with one of the admins but jesus you sit here and call out the admins saying they're bad and corrupt, they have a hard job which they do voluntarily, they're not told they have to run CAL or admin it they do it because they choose too and to help the community out by providing us with entertainment like CAL. No offense meant but this goes for everyone that sits here and calls the admins bad.

Nino's writing and what not have nothing to do with breaking the rules.
They don't unbreak the rules.
They don't acquit the rule breaking.
They don't make your case any less retarded.

I understand completely that you are just trying to divert from the argument.
Now you bring in Nino.

First you TELL me to chill.
Then, breaking the rules really isnt breaking the rules.
And, i don't read or understand what others are writing.
Whatever.
Its all nonsense.
You can lol now.

Edge wrote:Wow Impala stop bitching like you can do much about it besides quitting please and thank you, this post will probably get me in trouble with one of the admins but jesus you sit here and call out the admins saying they're bad and corrupt, they have a hard job which they do voluntarily, they're not told they have to run CAL or admin it they do it because they choose too and to help the community out by providing us with entertainment like CAL. No offense meant but this goes for everyone that sits here and calls the admins bad.

It should be evident that there is a problem with admin in CAL. I never used the term Bad or Corrupt to describe anything.

Think i will forward the whole affair up the line just for giggles.

Wow, that would be pretty cool. Way to kill a dying game.

The problem with Hl2dm is everybody acts like they are 2 years old. Grow up people, have fun its a game.

Its all nonsense.

No its a game. Step away from the keyboard.

What the hell are you on?

My argument is retarded huh?

I simply said that NINO and THE OTHER ADMINS have a hard job as it is with CAL and they don't need you bitching and whining about how they run something they do for FREE and VOLUNTARILY.

the admins will run the league how they see fit, its known as administrating. please take this to pm if you feel you must continue to argue, otherwise this post will undoubtedly get locked.

Edge wrote:What the hell are you on?

My argument is retarded huh?

I simply said that NINO and THE OTHER ADMINS have a hard job as it is with CAL and they don't need you bitching and whining about how they run something they do for FREE and VOLUNTARILY.

Nothing to do with you. I was talking at Zman.

lololololololololololololololololololololololol

Zman42 wrote:the admins will run the league how they see fit, its known as administrating. please take this to pm if you feel you must continue to argue, otherwise this post will undoubtedly get locked.

Locked? OMFG@!!!!!! Not that!!!!
You're a piece of work. You started this whole tangent taking it upon yourself to tell me what I NEED, that i need to chill.
Now you tell me id better chill or this will be locked.

How awesome is that?

3:10:17 PM) [BFO]Zman: and talk impala down.

gg aliaser.

I don't get what the big deal is really.... Ace got suspended thats his problem for not following the rules right?

This topic is fail. Yall need to get laid.

Reading this thread makes me feel like Im back in jr high school, even if it was a couple decades ago.

Ahh Great times

I love it

All this debate it just boils down to one thing this season: while it was ok for some to bend or break the rules, it was not ok for others. One person got suspended for breaking rules and others did not. I don't think you can justify that by any means and in order to stop the debate you should just reinstate Ace and chalk this whole mess up to doing things by the rules from now on, and let it serve as a warning to others that rule breaking will not be tolerated in the future. Revise the rules to read the exact way you want to have the game played and stick to it, no more bending or breaking rules for anyone from this point forward. This way no one will feel anyone got mistreated and we can get on with the way it is supposed to be. Any other solution will just not set well with certain people who will continue to complain.

Yeah I think we are done now. I think given the heatedness of the issue I have let it run it's course. Any further discussion can be taken to other channels.

Thanks to all those who participate, this topic is now closed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKG07305CBs