People think I wall hack! - HL2DMU Forum Archive

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-18 20:19:30

yes...canadians are different in the ways of the cock...in a good way

but ok seriously...

from what I've heard (which is alot) people that watch the full demos of me playing don't think that I'm hacking at all, but people that watch the clips that Seagull has put together do think that I hack...soooo quoting cheese: demos or gtfo.

also, this is something that I actually take somewhat seriously. People like confused, zman, blas, ace, etc, have these clips (and maybe demos i dunno) and have been reviewing them and watching them and voicing their opinions about whether or not i'm hacking. First of all...this shouldn't be. There should be a specific team of people that review my demos, along with the anti cheat admins. Obviously the team shouldn't be biased, but not many people in the hl2dm community are fond of me anyways. The point that I'm trying to make is that the clips/demos should be kept within the confindes (sp? maybe no d? i dunno) of the organized "demo review team." This means that they should be mostly reviewed by the higher up anti-cheat admins (sorry Lukeyboy) but we all know that SW has gotten their hands on them already. I don't feel that it's fair that people like ace who has the mental capacity of a mailbox have access to my "hacking demos" while people like Rico who is my clan leader and has every right to decide whether I'm hacking or not isn't "allowed" to see them. Either keep them within a select group of non-biased people, or spread them around the community for every n00blet to watch, and since the demos have already traversed outside of the review team I urge anybody with balls to stand up and pass along this footage (maybe to people that can actually review them without bias and voice their intelligent opinions?)

p.s. I would like to ask WT to refrain from locking/delete\ing this thread for awhile even if it gets a bit heated (which it may never be). I would like to hear peoples' honest opinions about my "hacking" situation and since the thread has everything to do with me I would like to keep it up for a bit (if it gets heated I'll just lol and my rofl copter will soisoi).

kthnxbai

two snails

2008-08-18 20:38:18

and then my rofl knife will sliecsliec

CellarDweller

2008-08-18 21:48:03

from my personal experience, and first time in CAL, i can honestly say i believe U ALL HACK! OMFG IT'S SOO OBVIOUS!!!

not sure i've ever played ya grain, so i have no opinion. but seriously, playing with the competetive elites has made me scratch my head a time or two and wonder how the fuck some things happen. but then i chalk it up to map knowledge and anticipation 99.9 percent of the time.

i'm just not sure any of this became public knowledge, clearly, it shouldn't have unless/until the allegation is substantiated. then, by all means, punishment should follow along with a public announcement.

and i would like to note this, my first experience in CAL has not been a pleasant one. it's a bit difficult learning the rules and regs of the league when a few members of the community choose to pick quotes and convo's that may be out of context in an effort to twist information to suit what appears to be their own agenda. but i'm just a CAL nub, so what do i know?

CoNfuSed

2008-08-18 21:56:42

Well look nutri, i do have them, and i wont say i dont. And i know that we dont really get along but when it comes to serious shit like hacking, and maybe getting someone banned from a league, i dont take our "relationship" in consideration.

badinfluence

2008-08-18 22:09:50

bind f10 "say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8 "

Zman42

2008-08-18 22:21:58

I think whoever gave them to ace made a poor decision, nothing against ya ace boy just sayin in this case.....

{EE}chEmicalbuRn

2008-08-18 23:43:46

ummmmmmmmm, ya. poor grainy. i still love you, you'll always be my brother. i wish i could say that grain isn't cocky,...but....um, well then i would be lying. personally, i dont really no for sure if anybody is hacking, there are SOOO many hacks out there, that i will never know who is hacking and who isnt. more over, what one person considers a hack and what another doesnt will always vary. i can come in here and throw out my personal opinion like everybody else does, but in the end, just like any community, there are circles of friends and clans. so opinions here are going to be biased. I can stick up for grain, which i will do to my dying day, but since we wear the same tag before our names nobody is going to take me seriously, especially the people that WANT this to be true. all i can say is EE is very different from other clans, we dont hop, the ppl you see wearing EE take them seriously. we are a VERY tight family. most of us, talk, text, email, what ever all the time, not just in game. We confide in each other over life issues, girl friends, wives, jobs, sickness, death, you pick it. i would do anything for any EE member, i love them all like a brother. with that being said, we also take hacking VERY seriously. the reason i am postive that grain is not hacking isnt just because i know him, its that he wouldnt do that because he wouldnt want to let any of us down, as well as he wouldnt want to embarrase EE. as i said, we are a very tight group, so getting kicked from EE would be like getting kicked from his family. so when these vids come out, and trust me they will, just keep in mind that the vids you watch have been circulating for sometime. make sure when you watch them you take into account where they have been and who has had time to alter them. im not saying they will be altered, just keep in mind they COULD have been. dont formulate an opinion of grain, because of rumors. trust me, i know that he is not an easy person to get along with, he and i have had MANY a dissagreement before, BUT he really is a good person. I have a pretty good rep in the HL2dm community as far as respectful and honesty goes(if you think otherwise please feel free to say so) and I would my rep (and my life, for that matter) on the line for him ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

cheers.

CoNfuSed

2008-08-19 00:05:17

that was a nice text chemical. but why would you defend someone, even if hes in your clan or w.e before you even see any proof.

<kyle>

2008-08-19 00:27:11

yall just hate on grain cause he stacks paper to da ceiling and rides on 24 inch chrome.

Uncle Rico

2008-08-19 00:29:49

I know most people here view me as someone who continually jokes and goofs around within the forums, but from time to time I can be serious and now is a good time for it. Although I'm not that well known, I have been involved in online gaming for quite some time, going back to the beta days of CS and DoD. I used to help a friend from work run a small CS server back when there was no penalty for cheating amounting to more than a server ban, and during that time we tested various cheats and anti-cheating programs to help keep the hacks to a minimum. I am, and always will be a proponent of clean online gaming, whether competitive or just public play.
I've seen more than a few cheaters in my experience, but I've waited until now to express my opinion over this controversy. Over the last few days I've reviewed more than a dozen SourceTV demos of Grain playing, demos that he doesn't even know exist, many of them being 1v1's where there would be no one to communicate with. I used r_drawothermodels 2 to be able to see the models through walls. There are many instances where I've said, "wtf? how'd he know he was there?", but in every instance, there was always something visible, or audible, that gave away a position. You may have to crank the sound to ear-bleed level (which I know he does), but something is always there. Whether it's a footstep or a box moving or the sound of it being slid, or a view of an enemy in the death cam after a death, it is possible to hear or see something in every instance. In all the demos, I've found not one thing that would provide an conclusive proof of hacking.
That being said, I feel as though these demos and avi's that have come to light recently are more of a personal attack than a legitimate claim of cheating. This "evidence" is being heralded by some as 100% conclusive proof that Grain hacks, however, many people who are not CAL admins have seen these dispite countless claims that these are for CAL admin and AC admin's eyes only. This is where opinion becomes greater than fact. Alot of people don't like Grain, and even if he is vindicated from this, there will always be that time that his name was dragged through the mud, and there will be those that were convinced by others that he did or does cheat. I'm sure that there's a steam conversation out there somewhere too. Let me assure you, Seagull, I was in TeamSpeak with Grain while he was making fun of you with a false confession. I know what he was typing while he was typing it, and it brought lulz. GG.
Here is where I stand on the matter: there has been no evidence that Grain cheats, and until I see something definitive, I will continue to defend him against these accusations. To say that it's a private matter, and then spread the "evidence" like wildfire is nothing more than a character attack. Admittedly, Grain is an asshole sometimes, but in recent days I've lost respect for plenty of people who I thought to be respected members of this community, included admins, advisors, instructors, etc., with their own accusations and sidestepping of questions. This will continue to be a witchhunt by some of you after this is over and done with, and we will now always have a question mark beside a team's record at the end of this CAL season because of the ridiculous way this matter was handled.

{EE}chEmicalbuRn

2008-08-19 00:56:10

CoNfuSed wrote:that was a nice text chemical. but why would you defend someone, even if hes in your clan or w.e before you even see any proof.

confused, you need to read what i wrote again. i dont need to see them. i dont need to see them because i trust him. he has never lied to me in anyway shape or form. and if such "proof" is out there, as grain said, why hasnt our clan leader seen it? only ppl that are against him have them. im not here to get into fights with anyone, but im entitled to speak my peace on any post here, as are you. I hardly EVER do unless if feel strongly about the subject.

Blasphemy

2008-08-19 01:26:37

Nutri-Grain wrote: also, this is something that I actually take somewhat seriously. People like confused, zman, blas, ace, etc, have these clips (and maybe demos i dunno) and have been reviewing them and watching them and voicing their opinions about whether or not i'm hacking. First of all...this shouldn't be. (maybe to people that can actually review them without bias and voice their intelligent opinions?)

don't see what the big deal is about me watchin your clips if your h4x0ring then you are and if your not then your not, it isn't like i am gonna side with someone blindly and just say you hack cause i don't like you (not saying i don't like you or that i do hehe), but yea you need to chilax you didn't see me making a big deal and making some stupid thread saying "LOLOLOLOL OMG PEOPLE SAY I HACK", when people where spreading rumors i was banned from CAL for hacking.

snipeIT

2008-08-19 01:39:48

Unfortunately trust does not buy evidence.

Blasphemy

2008-08-19 02:23:17

everyone is acting like certain people are holding super secret meetings just to talk about nutris demos, i don't care about anyone that much to do that, plus i never voiced my opinion on the subjects at lest not publicly.

the demos will be released eventually until then everyone just has to wait, no use arguing about it and for the record i don't think you hack even after seeing those clips/demos.

poconut

2008-08-19 02:51:05

can we see the clips please ffs?

badinfluence

2008-08-19 02:56:13

I love you nutri grain.

badinfluence wrote:bind f10 "say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8 "

invx001

2008-08-19 03:20:07

I pass my crown to you Nutri-Grain.

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-19 05:05:53

@ Chem, Rico, and Doc: Thanks guys. As these bros have said EE is family and I know I can count on my family to back me up. Do you understand that Confused? Did we make it clear enough?

EE = family. family = trust. K? K.

@ Blas: I wasn't saying that you specifically having the demos is bad...I was just using your name as an example. This example is referring to the fact that many people other than the CAL admins and AC admins have these demos and clips. Also, thanks for saying im not hacking. So far alot of people have told me after reviewing the demos that they don't think I hack...good sign? ...actually i don't care lol.

@ BI: Love you too man

@ invx: lol! yeah i know eh, i feel so honoured!

*rolls eyes*

@ holy: you sooooo sexy

@poco: lol the demos will "come out in time" i guess lol. I can't wait to see them and re-live how amazing I am in every way :]

lololololol.

thanks for the opinions guys

0nti

2008-08-19 07:04:32

in case you aren't hacking, people involved in the accussations aren't gonna be in a good position ;|

CoNfuSed

2008-08-19 07:55:04

Well nutri, if you don't care why would you make a post about it... that's what i don't understand about you. your always saying you dont care and you dont give a fuck, but then you come up with something showing the total opposite... im trying to understand you but i just cant.

Poor_Billy

2008-08-19 08:01:47

CoNfuSed wrote:Well nutri, if you don't care why would you make a post about it... that's what i don't understand about you. your always saying you dont care and you dont give a fuck, but then you come up with something showing the total opposite... im trying to understand you but i just cant.

Didn't you quti?

CoNfuSed

2008-08-19 08:13:55

wow poor_billy, your like the tenth person that comes up with this lame shit lol. first of all get your information right, read my post and i said at the end of the cal season, is cal finished? no. and second of all, its not because someone says something that he cant change his mind. so if your going to post stupid nonsense shit, better not post at all eh.

Poor_Billy

2008-08-19 08:17:02

CoNfuSed wrote:wow poor_billy, your like the tenth person that comes up with this lame shit lol. first of all get your information right, read my post and i said at the end of the cal season, is cal finished? no. and second of all, its not because someone says something that he cant change his mind. so if your going to post stupid nonsense shit, better not post at all eh.

dolphin cry.

Da1

2008-08-19 08:27:40

lol seagull trys to prove everyone hacks when he loses...

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-19 08:40:06

lol true say Dally

oh and confused I made this thread for two reasons:

1) for the lulz

2) because i feel that it isn't fair that some people in the community has the demos and some don't, but they're gonna be passed around eventually so whatever. I just thought that the leader of my clan should be able to decide whether or not his clanmate is hacking. Don't ya think? ya? ya? sweeeet.

I know I don't hack and I know that Seagull is just butthurt...I don't care about people calling me a hacker. I lol at that. The one thing I do care about is being fair to the community which means either giving the demos to just the CAL and AC admins or giving them to everybody. Don't try and understand me either...that's weird nig.

dolphin cry indeed.

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2008-08-19 08:59:32

Poor_Billy wrote:dolphin cry.

Owned.

PwNs3ttia

2008-08-19 09:20:23

i r teh mozt unbiazd of allz teh communiiteez, gieb meh demoz and i review and paz jujemnt kthx LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Charles

2008-08-19 09:22:48

Some of these posts don't help the situation at all. Not one bit.

Like this one.

Va|iums

2008-08-19 09:33:24

lol umm....the community seems to be degenerating even more somehow. Please stop the madness!!

CoNfuSed

2008-08-19 11:18:23

Ah well see nutri, if you would have said it like this instead of making a post "dissing" others, then I wouldn't even have posted probably, because i would have understood why you made the post in the first place. Like I don't understand why you hate me that much, or why pb hates me that much. Unless I did something a while ago and I don't remember I really don't know. I'm trying to understand you, but your not helping me undertand anything because your not explaining what you mean or want to say the first time you say it.

And I'm telling you right now, this is my last attempt to fix things between us. If you won't take me seriously, then I'm just done with you, I won't talk to you, post in any of your threads, comment about you on anything. I'll just be done with you.

Trouser Snake

2008-08-19 11:44:41

I remember when Seagull made all those little clips of invx trying to say invx hacked, then when he kept saying dallas hacked with loud footsteps LOL.

Some things never change

Now that I think about it, he made all these accusations right after 911 beat vdus in cal.

See a pattern anyone?

provost

2008-08-19 17:43:43

Yeah i've seen them and like rico said, some frags are like ''TOTAL WHAT THA FAWK'' but I think small clips in a zip file can look more suspicious than watching the whole thing. Of course these clips can make one go on a adrenaline rush of 'omg pure haxorage' but after calming down a bit, you realise it would be better to watch the whole demo with a ood headset/soundcad and see what's up from there. Until then, too soon to tell.

People check for potential hackers because when some people who were being suspected, ended up being caught after the same long and painful investigation and madness around it. When nothing has been found, the accused one had to go through a month of bs, shit hapens i guess.

This pattern will obviously repeat itself but shouldn't be seen as a bad thing but a outine check. People shouldn't hate a person that is only suspected of cheating when until it is proved.

Edge

2008-08-19 18:24:07

We'll it seems through all of this bullshit we've lost a good player for a good reason he starts his new job next week and won't be able to play, gg fuck all this bullshit.

provost

2008-08-19 19:42:29

Edge wrote:We'll it seems through all of this bullshit we've lost a good player for a good reason he starts his new job next week and won't be able to play, gg fuck all this bullshit.

Zman42

2008-08-19 20:04:15

Edge wrote:We'll it seems through all of this bullshit we've lost a good player for a good reason he starts his new job next week and won't be able to play, gg fuck all this bullshit.

yes us too. Because of the delay involved in this we now wont have 4 players unless its before 8:30 pm, which means unless teams are cool about it we cant play default time, this due to playoff delay. thanks gg.

CellarDweller

2008-08-19 21:40:27

insert generic sarcastic remark > <

insert specific flame > <

insert obligatory lawl > <

insert deferential attitude > <

insert blame > <

insert no resolution > <

the_big_cheese

2008-08-20 00:23:21

This thread needs more demos
Grain says he wants everyone to see them.
"well it just doesn't feel right to post them" is no excuse. The only negative results will be flaming, and hell, that's what this thread was started for.

So post links so people can maybe actually discuss Grain's hacking instead of making fun of Seagull. And to mods: don't delete those links, cause we all know you've already watched them yourself.

CoNfuSed

2008-08-20 00:47:57

If anyone is going to post the link to the demos it's going to be Seagull, so I don't know why your still bothering yourselves with that.

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-20 01:03:36

exactly cheesey

seagull doesn't want to release the demos because he'll just find more people seeing me as a legit player and not a hacker and seeing him as a butthurt baby. Obviously he won't put the links up, but I urge anyone that has them to share them with the community so the assumptions and rumours and accusations will be lowered to a minimum...although what's hl2dm without assumptions, rumours, and accusations? Oh right...that would make it a boring version of the game...

lol good posts everybody, especially conflict's.

I think that this whole mess with CAL playoffs put on hold and people being accused of hacking has put quite a brown skidmark on the hl2dm CAL league. Also Edge has already stated people are getting fed up and quitting teams/CAL and maybe even hl2dm altogether, and why? Because Seagull has yet to scrape the sand out of his cow lipped *bleeeeeeep*.

Confused: The reason there is a sense of hatred between us is because when I first heard about you/played with you, you talked like you were the toughest piece of shit in the game. You also devoted your time to stalking Billy and posting any loss he had on the U while insulting him. Obviously I wouldn't enjoy this behaviour since you're doing it to my teamate. Now you and zman accused me of hacking and refused to scrim us for the longest time until you were able to see (quoting Zman) "Wha Happon?" I think these are pretty good reasons for me not enjoy your company in this game/league. Now, it has seemed that you've eased up on Billy and now that Zman has friended me again on steam saying that he doesn't think I hack, I'm sure you think the same. So maybe it's time for a second chance? Friend me if you think so.

0nti

2008-08-20 01:18:48

Now, it has seemed that you've eased up on Billy and now that Zman has friended me again on steam saying that he doesn't think I hack, I'm sure you think the same. So maybe it's time for a second chance? Friend me if you think so.

yay ! spread the love people <3 *group hug* :]

CoNfuSed

2008-08-20 01:35:08

look, I don't know where you see that i think im the toughest guy out there, I do know that im tough, i won't deny that, not the toughEST, but tough. I didn't really ease up on Billy, im just avoiding him, so like that im sure nothing will happen. And if you didn't see, Billy is really the one that's saying he's the toughest out there. Anyways, I never got asked by you or billy since a really long time to scrim, maybe you asked someone in my clan, but not me, and I never said you hacked yet, im not saying you don't, but im not saying you are, I will make the proper research before saying that you hack or not, and it's not Zman or anyone that will convince me with words about something as serious as this.

Poor_Billy

2008-08-20 01:55:55

CoNfuSed wrote:And if you didn't see, Billy is really the one that's saying he's the toughest out there..

Bike Racks at 3:15, Bring it.

L2k

2008-08-20 02:34:16

I've kept out this topic but since my name was brought up and I don't like whats going on this community, I thought of something for you Grain. Since the demos and clips have not been released and there is all this speculation, why dont you upload all your 2v2 and 4v4 demos to file front or file dropper w/e and post the links here. That way people can view for themselves your demos in there entirety using r_drawothermodels 2 and normal modes and then decide for themselves.

I will say that yes I did view the demos and yes I did see some questionable things. The questionable things I saw could possibly be explained away and therefore I am not going to publicly say that I'm 100% sure of anything at this point. If you post all your demos I would be happy to view them and form a honest opinion based on what I see in its entirety, and not just base it off a few snipits of times you look very questionable.

If you have nothing to hide and based on your comments so far I believe you feel you do not, post the links and let everyone see it for themselves. The things that I say I saw that were questionable was your ability to track players who are not in view and are at such a distance sometimes that I don't believe that sound could be a reason for you to be tracking. The other thing you appear to have is a super ability to do prediction nades, such as throwing one right as someone is about to come around a corner or from out of view and it lands in their face. I do know that with team comms and a real good sense of sound that can be possible, but it seems like you do it more than anyone I have ever seen.

For me I have studied many demos and many players styles and techniques if a effort to improve my own play, and I have to admit that I have not seen many if any play this game the way you do. Again I at this point am not saying you are guilty, just questionable. It's possible you have some super abilities that no one else has but I would really need to see alot more of your play over a period of time to make a proper call on it. Anyway I think this could put alot of the speculation to a end and if thats what you want upload all your unaltered, unedited demos and make the links public.

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-20 02:50:06

LMAO! yes!

omg i'm so glad someone finally brought that up! hahaha. I have to be cocky right here...my prediction nades pwn FACES. That's why they're always hitting people in the face. Predicting a nade throw is a hard thing to learn but you have to take into account the person you're playing and the area he just ran out of. Now, some of these nades are just lucky throws, but some are just well timed. Say for example seagull the baby runs into the back mag area in caverns and picks up the shotgun that's on the other side of the mag jail cage. I know that he wouldn't stay in that small area for long and I also know that he can bunny hop pretty well, so I cook the nade and estimate when he'll come running out of that area and also when the nade will explode the second it passes that wall corner. This all seems like alot of work, but to me it's common. I'm sure other people that are good at nades are wall hacking too? Lol, run for the hills Vox!

oh and I guess I could upload some of my demos onto filefront, but not all of them. I don't feel like putting up over 200 demos thank you very much

Also most of these demos are being used in a frag vid that im SLOWLY making sooo I don't want to give away all my frags over this stupid hacking accusation. That said I may put some demos up if people would like to watch me rape.

Oh and p.s. If I put up a demo of Rico and I 1v1ing, I know exactly how he plays every map soooo I'll be predicting alot of stuff on him (I have 1v1d him at least 100 times haha).

later

L2k

2008-08-20 02:54:22

I don't think 200 demos are necessary, just the 8 from this cal season for each 2v2 and 4v4. Thats 16 and should be more than enough. Post any less and I think you leave the door open that you have something to hide.

Trouser Snake

2008-08-20 03:31:54

n1 Punk.

Lets see some demos

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-20 03:42:14

meh. ill post whatever i feel like posting, and if i do post demos it won't be right away anyways.

shunnyboy

2008-08-20 06:01:31

funny shit

Va|iums

2008-08-20 07:39:49

Nutri-Grain wrote:meh. ill post whatever i feel like posting, and if i do post demos it won't be right away anyways.

I haven't seen these supposed hacking videos or demos yet so my judgement remains nutruel, but honestly an answer like that will do nothing to stick it to Seagull. If I was in your shoes I'd release my CAL demos and just end this witchhunt, if that is what it turns out to be. Some may interpret it to cowing to the skeptics to release the demos, but for me if I know I'm legit and releasing the demos proving legitness would be the ultimate uppercut knockout.

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-20 07:45:02

yeah thats great guys but im not gonna give away all my cal demos to everyone when people are still trying to prove me as a hacker and that will just give them more footage and possibly my steam information so they can show the shit to the higher AC admins. Sooo ill give you more demos after CAL season...if it starts back up again.

DEATH-ANGEL

2008-08-20 07:47:41

Can always restart STA.

CoNfuSed

2008-08-20 09:31:06

I understand that nutri, but if you dont hack, then why would you be even a little scared of giving the demos, not like if they can find anything if you dont hack...

Trouser Snake

2008-08-20 09:33:08

Lets see some demos

L2k

2008-08-20 10:14:03

CoNfuSed wrote:I understand that nutri, but if you dont hack, then why would you be even a little scared of giving the demos, not like if they can find anything if you dont hack...

Exactly

Nutri-Grain wrote:yeah thats great guys but im not gonna give away all my cal demos to everyone when people are still trying to prove me as a hacker and that will just give them more footage and possibly my steam information so they can show the shit to the higher AC admins. Sooo ill give you more demos after CAL season...if it starts back up again.

This statement has guilt written all over it and if that is your final answer to all of this, then my position is now going from thinking you are questionable to you are guilty, and obviously have something to hide.

invx001

2008-08-20 10:31:38

just here to say haha

Blasphemy

2008-08-20 11:11:25

omfg don't feed the troll so lulz successful troll is successful

snipeIT

2008-08-20 11:47:06

Yeah, why the hell would you make a topic to say your not hacking?

Best way to prove your "innocence" is to provide demos. Your asking for the attention mate.

badinfluence

2008-08-20 12:11:28

invx001 wrote:just here to say haha

Uncle Rico

2008-08-20 18:08:48

I like how when we wanted demos we get, "it's not your business, you don't need them" - then when you want demos, "if you don't give 'em up you're definitely guilty!"

L2k

2008-08-20 18:48:06

First off why ask anyone but Grain for Demos he already has, and secondly when Grains says hes afraid to give up more demos because "that will just give them more footage and possibly my steam information so they can show the shit to the higher AC admins" what do you expect people to think.

{EE}chEmicalbuRn

2008-08-20 19:14:26

guys, look, you are accusing grain of something. you supposedly have conclusive evidence. grain DOESNT need to waste his time providing demos to prove his innocence. you are accusing HIM, the burden of proof is on YOU, not him. if you dont have enough evidence then you shouldnt have started this BS in the first place. you have had MORE then enough time to look at the vids you have, make a fucking decision ffs, jesus. wtf. i do know he is making a frag video, he told me that long before this all started, so its understanable that he wouldnt want to release all his vids that he's using. ok, you're going to read that last sentence and quote the fuck out of it. so quote this as well, as i said b4, the burden of proof is on the accussers, not him. you are making these alligations, so YOU prove it, instead of asking him to make his vids public, why dont the accussers come up with some evidence for the community to look at? if the evidence you have shows hacking beyond a shadow of a doubt THEN it will be on him to post some other demos in his defense if he wants to. how long is this going to go on for? unless you are having the vids sent out to have a professional analyse them, then ok, but if not, lets go already.

Uncle Rico

2008-08-20 19:17:37

Poor choice of words, but what he means is that if you're gonna accuse him of cheating with demos where he's not cheating, why give you more demos? You're just going to continually pick out random things and make more accusations.

L2k

2008-08-20 20:01:13

Look I understand him just not wanting to add anymore fuel to the fire for CAL, but this isnt about proving something to a CAL admin, its for the other people outside of CAL who also see some questionable play coming from Grain. The CAL admins are not going to be showing demos to the general public as it is not allowed. So the only reason I suggested this to you guys was so that you could put a end to the speculation by people outside of CAL.

I personally did not want to keep having this question mark in my head based on what I had seen and thought if Grain was as clean as he says it shouldn't have been a issue at all to put up the other CAL demos for me and others to look at. The responses given by Grain and the other defenders is kinda like getting pulled over by the cops and having the cops say "I think I smell marijuana coming out of your van, may I search your van?" and then having you say "no way get a warrant Im not letting you look at anything". The cop at that point automatically says ok this guys has something to hide, I'll get a warrant.
See if you were the type of guy who had never even used marijuana or let anyone get in your van who did, you would say "ok go for it, look all you want I have nothing in here" But on the other hand if you had used marijuana before in your van or a friend had been smoking it in there at some point you would be a little worried to yourself thinking "hmm what could he find, I know I dont have anything on me now but maybe theres a roach under the seat or a seed here or there, I better not let him look" and thats kind of what this seems like now.

Using a frag video as a excuse is pretty weak, I heard Grain say that like over a year ago he was making one, and for that matter watching a well made frag video is something way different than sitting thru 20 min demos of game play, and should this big question mark remains as to whether or not Grains hacking whos gonna want to watch a frag video of a suspected hacker anyway.

snipeIT

2008-08-20 20:02:37

{EE}chEmicalBurn wrote:guys, look, you are accusing grain of something. you supposedly have conclusive evidence. grain DOESNT need to waste his time providing demos to prove his innocence. you are accusing HIM, the burden of proof is on YOU, not him. if you dont have enough evidence then you shouldnt have started this BS in the first place. you have had MORE then enough time to look at the vids you have, make a fucking decision ffs, jesus. wtf. i do know he is making a frag video, he told me that long before this all started, so its understanable that he wouldnt want to release all his vids that he's using. ok, you're going to read that last sentence and quote the fuck out of it. so quote this as well, as i said b4, the burden of proof is on the accussers, not him. you are making these alligations, so YOU prove it, instead of asking him to make his vids public, why dont the accussers come up with some evidence for the community to look at? if the evidence you have shows hacking beyond a shadow of a doubt THEN it will be on him to post some other demos in his defense if he wants to. how long is this going to go on for? unless you are having the vids sent out to have a professional analyse them, then ok, but if not, lets go already.

Funny coming from someone who is using "trust" as his evidence.

{EE}chEmicalbuRn

2008-08-20 21:01:23

L2k wrote:Look I understand him just not wanting to add anymore fuel to the fire for CAL, but this isnt about proving something to a CAL admin, its for the other people outside of CAL who also see some questionable play coming from Grain. The CAL admins are not going to be showing demos to the general public as it is not allowed. So the only reason I suggested this to you guys was so that you could put a end to the speculation by people outside of CAL.

I personally did not want to keep having this question mark in my head based on what I had seen and thought if Grain was as clean as he says it shouldn't have been a issue at all to put up the other CAL demos for me and others to look at. The responses given by Grain and the other defenders is kinda like getting pulled over by the cops and having the cops say "I think I smell marijuana coming out of your van, may I search your van?" and then having you say "no way get a warrant Im not letting you look at anything". The cop at that point automatically says ok this guys has something to hide, I'll get a warrant.
See if you were the type of guy who had never even used marijuana or let anyone get in your van who did, you would say "ok go for it, look all you want I have nothing in here" But on the other hand if you had used marijuana before in your van or a friend had been smoking it in there at some point you would be a little worried to yourself thinking "hmm what could he find, I know I dont have anything on me now but maybe theres a roach under the seat or a seed here or there, I better not let him look" and thats kind of what this seems like now.

Using a frag video as a excuse is pretty weak, I heard Grain say that like over a year ago he was making one, and for that matter watching a well made frag video is something way different than sitting thru 20 min demos of game play, and should this big question mark remains as to whether or not Grains hacking whos gonna want to watch a frag video of a suspected hacker anyway.

i have to admit these are pretty good points, but still, isnt our justice system based upon inocent until PROVEN quilty??? why does he have to post vids in his defense when no evidence has been brought before him of his quilt??

snipeIT. your response to my post makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

{EE}chEmicalbuRn

2008-08-20 21:03:20

holymoly wrote:. Furthermore, Rico is right. The burden of proof is NOT on Grain. It's on the CAL admins, who obviously are having trouble proving anything or we wouldn't still be having this discussion.

damn it holy, that was my line not ricos

Uncle Rico

2008-08-20 21:23:29

Yep.

provost

2008-08-20 21:28:31

Yeah sorry grain but i don't think anyone gives a flying fuck if you hack or not.
People freakout because of CAL being on HOLD.

Just my 2 cents *prepares to be lynch'd*

I'm fully aware i've got friends involved in this story/CAL, but anyway.
What i'd like to hear is WHY-WHy in the first place CAL was put on a hold for such a thing.

Lemme put it ''my way''

Let's say Cal would've never been stopped and ewr would've win CAL:

*What if Grain is hacking*

1- ewr is ranked #1, they win CAL.
2- team 2,3,4 etc.. got pwned by ewr.
3- Grain gets caught.
4- 2nd, 3rd,4th place are simply moved to 1st 2nd 3rd.
5- End of the story. GO watch pr0n

*what if Grain isnt*

1- ewr is ranked #1, they win CAL.
2- team 2,3,4 etc.. got pwned by ewr.
3- Grain is legit.
5- End of the story. GO watch pr0n

If there's any reason why CAL was put on hold since the solution provided above was clearly (i think) the most simple and obvious solution to apply, please explain why CAL is on hold?

D:

L2k

2008-08-20 21:29:31

holymoly wrote:Doesn't CAL have an Anti-cheat client?

Thats like saying doesn't Valve have VAC, when we all know stuff gets by that.

BuckyKatt

2008-08-20 21:30:45

L2k wrote:The responses given by Grain and the other defenders is kinda like getting pulled over by the cops and having the cops say "I think I smell marijuana coming out of your van, may I search your van?" and then having you say "no way get a warrant Im not letting you look at anything". The cop at that point automatically says ok this guys has something to hide, I'll get a warrant.
See if you were the type of guy who had never even used marijuana or let anyone get in your van who did, you would say "ok go for it, look all you want I have nothing in here" But on the other hand if you had used marijuana before in your van or a friend had been smoking it in there at some point you would be a little worried to yourself thinking "hmm what could he find, I know I dont have anything on me now but maybe theres a roach under the seat or a seed here or there, I better not let him look" and thats kind of what this seems like now.

This is a poor argument. I would never let a cop, who asked, search my car on principal alone. If they feel they have probable cause they need not ask. If they do not have probable cause then it is nothing more than a witch hunt, which incidentally is what I think we have here.

And Holy is right... while seeing a few demos of grain (that he selects) may ease your mind that he doesn't hack the only thing it proves is that he wasn't hacking in those demos.

L2k

2008-08-20 21:32:49

.conflict wrote:Yeah sorry grain but i don't think anyone gives a flying fuck if you hack or not.
People freakout because of CAL being on HOLD.

Just my 2 cents *prepares to be lynch'd*

I'm fully aware i've got friends involved in this story/CAL, but anyway.
What i'd like to hear is WHY-WHy in the first place CAL was put on a hold for such a thing.

Lemme put it ''my way''

Let's say Cal would've never been stopped and ewr would've win CAL:

*What if Grain is hacking*

1- ewr is ranked #1, they win CAL.
2- team 2,3,4 etc.. got pwned by ewr.
3- Grain gets caught.
4- 2nd, 3rd,4th place are simply moved to 1st 2nd 3rd.
5- End of the story. GO watch pr0n

*what if Grain isnt*

1- ewr is ranked #1, they win CAL.
2- team 2,3,4 etc.. got pwned by ewr.
3- Grain is legit.
5- End of the story. GO watch pr0n

If there's any reason why CAL was put on hold since the solution provided above was clearly (i think) the most simple and obvious solution to apply, please explain why CAL is on hold?

D:

This is easy, if ewr has a hacker and there matches are overturned, they should not be in the playoffs and the 9th place team does. Doing that would screw up everything if he is found to be guilty so playoffs would have to be started all over, with new seeds.

Edge

2008-08-20 21:35:01

@ L2K, but even so who gives a damn in the end about the placings in cal? Hell then just make the 9th team bump up to last place, they'll live and play next season. I'm sure they'll be happy enough with just placing in the finals.

Va|iums

2008-08-20 21:37:01

Lmao you'd have to be niave to think the CAL Anti-Cheat can stop hacking....So I have two stories I'll keep them both short. I used to have a nearly perfect magnum over a year ago before I started not sleeping well, and I was accused once at my peak of having this skill. I sent 4 demos to the accusers of the past 4 matches I played consecutively, I never heard even a whisper after that day. It's really as simple as that if theres suspicion and an accuser, releasing of demos is by the far the easiest thing to do to completely discredit and embarrass your accusers. If Seagull was wrong and you could prove it would be a huge stain to his credibility. InvX was also accused of hacking and offered to me to release all of his demos of the past 5 matches to the community and the accuser. After watching these demos I learned two things, InvX has a great magnum and stays in the shadows and stalks you until the perfect time, that whole thing about hacking...after watching the demos you'd have to be insane to say he was. I don't see how it can't be the same here, offer em up and make them look really dumb and STFU for good.

L2k

2008-08-20 21:39:16

BuckyKatt wrote:
L2k wrote:The responses given by Grain and the other defenders is kinda like getting pulled over by the cops and having the cops say "I think I smell marijuana coming out of your van, may I search your van?" and then having you say "no way get a warrant Im not letting you look at anything". The cop at that point automatically says ok this guys has something to hide, I'll get a warrant.
See if you were the type of guy who had never even used marijuana or let anyone get in your van who did, you would say "ok go for it, look all you want I have nothing in here" But on the other hand if you had used marijuana before in your van or a friend had been smoking it in there at some point you would be a little worried to yourself thinking "hmm what could he find, I know I dont have anything on me now but maybe theres a roach under the seat or a seed here or there, I better not let him look" and thats kind of what this seems like now.
This is a poor argument. I would never let a cop, who asked, search my car on principal alone. If they feel they have probable cause they need not ask. If they do not have probable cause then it is nothing more than a witch hunt, which incidentally is what I think we have here.

And Holy is right... while seeing a few demos of grain (that he selects) may ease your mind that he doesn't hack the only thing it proves is that he wasn't hacking in those demos.

I guess you didn't see the part where in my example I said the cop says "I think I smell marijuana coming out of your van" that there is probable cause and would be totally different than the cop saying "just because you drive a van with a picture of the grateful dead on the side, I think you may have some drugs in here." which would be a search based on principal alone.

The fact that some of the clips seagull made showed Grain tracking players thru walls and then blowing up nades in their faces, kind of leads to probable cause in this case.

L2k

2008-08-20 21:42:43

Edge wrote:@ L2K, but even so who gives a damn in the end about the placings in cal? Hell then just make the 9th team bump up to last place, they'll live and play next season. I'm sure they'll be happy enough with just placing in the finals.

The problem with this is that if the 9th team played in the playoffs they actually have a chance to win, not just take last and be happy with it. I.e. last season Seagull was the 8th place seed and won the 1v1 championship iirc.

L2k

2008-08-20 21:44:01

BuckyKatt wrote:And Holy is right... while seeing a few demos of grain (that he selects) may ease your mind that he doesn't hack the only thing it proves is that he wasn't hacking in those demos.

Which is exactly why I suggested Grain upload all of his 16 demos from THIS seasons CAL 2v2 and 4v4.

Edge

2008-08-20 21:45:49

Ok so? CAL isn't that big of a deal rly, I mean its nice competition and all but its like we have more seasons we can play, they'll get another chance if they want it.

BuckyKatt

2008-08-20 21:47:45

L2k wrote:I guess you didn't see the part where in my example I said the cop says "I think I smell marijuana coming out of your van" that there is probable cause and would be totally different than the cop saying "just because you drive a van with a picture of the grateful dead on the side, I think you may have some drugs in here." which would be a search based on principal alone.

The fact that some of the clips seagull made showed Grain tracking players thru walls and then blowing up nades in their faces, kind of leads to probable cause in this case.

No... I saw that bit. And if the cop felt he had probable cause and still asked if he could search my car he would get the same answer from me (whether I was guilty of it or not) on principal alone. If he feels he has probable cause he doesn't have to ask. If he asks he is doubting himself and then does not in fact have probable cause.

The argument also breaks down because grain can not be compelled by force to allow us to search his demos. A cop with probable cause can remove you from your car.

Edge

2008-08-20 21:48:05

Hold up holy, the thing is it's not just one match in question to them its the whole season, they just picked a match randomly to have grain upload stuff from.

CellarDweller

2008-08-20 21:49:53

the police analogy is a poor example to use. there are any number reasons for warrantless searches where an automobile is involved.

You may conduct a warrantless search of any part of a vehicle that is being used on a public thoroughfare, or which is readily capable of such use, as long as you have probable cause to believe the object you are looking for may be located in that portion of the vehicle. For example, you may search the passenger compartment, the glove compartment, under the hood, in a locked trunk compartment, or in any of the vehicle's contents, as long as what you are looking for might reasonably be located there. (Houghton (1999) 526 U.S. 295; Ross (1982) 456 U.S.798, 820-821; Acevedo (1991) 500 U.S. 565, 569-570, 580; Panah (2005) 35 Cal.4th 395, 469; Superior Court (Nasmeh) (2007) 151 Cal.App.4th 85, 100-101; Carpenter (1997) 15 Cal.4th 312, 365.) You do not need any additional dangerous circumstances or exigencies beyond the mobility that is inherent in any vehicle that can be operated. (Labron (1996) 518 U.S. 938, 940; Carney (1985) 471 U.S. 386, 390-391.)

Note: Apart from the "automobile exception," the general "exigent circumstances" exception can also justify a warrantless vehicle search without probable cause. (Panah (2005) 35 Cal.4th 395, 469; see discussion in Ch. 3-IV-A-2.)

Note: The "automobile exception" applies not only to any vehicle that is readily mobile, but also to any vehicle that reasonably appears mobile, even if in fact it is not. (Hatley (9th Cir. 1993) 999 F.2d 392, 395.)
Note: As will be discussed below, the "automobile exception" likewise applies to other vehicles, including motor homes, vans, bicycles, motorcycles, and houseboats.

Note: This "vehicle" or "probable cause" justification for a warrantless vehicle search is entirely separate and different from the "incident to (custodial) arrest" justification discussed under section III above, even though, in some situations, they may both exist at the same time. (Overland (1988) 203 Cal.App.3d 1114.)

The key to understanding this "automobile exception" is to realize that it is based on "probable cause" and that "probable cause" here means exactly the same thing that it does in a search warrant context, namely, enough facts, knowledge, training, etc., to provide a "fair probability" that the object you are looking for will be found in the place (portion of the car) you want to search. (See Ch. 6, "Search Warrants"; Pinela-Hernandez (9th Cir. 2001) 262 F.3d 974, 978; Allen (2000) 78 Cal.App.4th 445, 450; Nonnette (1990) 221 Cal.App.3d 659, 665-666.)

This public Service Announcement Brought to you by Wall Hacks - Driving people nutzo since 2004

Uncle Rico

2008-08-20 21:52:18

Edge wrote:Hold up holy, the thing is it's not just one match in question to them its the whole season, they just picked a match randomly to have grain upload stuff from.

Actually, the big stink is derived from a scrim - one which we lost, that I participated in, and if Grain hacks at all, he didn't there because he was playing like shit. If someone's gonna hack, and try to win at all, you would think they would do so the entire match, not just a few instances and then end up losing.

L2k

2008-08-20 21:53:29

CellarDweller wrote:the police analogy is a poor example to use. there are any number reasons for warrantless searches where an automobile is involved.

You may conduct a warrantless search of any part of a vehicle that is being used on a public thoroughfare, or which is readily capable of such use, as long as you have probable cause to believe the object you are looking for may be located in that portion of the vehicle. For example, you may search the passenger compartment, the glove compartment, under the hood, in a locked trunk compartment, or in any of the vehicle's contents, as long as what you are looking for might reasonably be located there. (Houghton (1999) 526 U.S. 295; Ross (1982) 456 U.S.798, 820-821; Acevedo (1991) 500 U.S. 565, 569-570, 580; Panah (2005) 35 Cal.4th 395, 469; Superior Court (Nasmeh) (2007) 151 Cal.App.4th 85, 100-101; Carpenter (1997) 15 Cal.4th 312, 365.) You do not need any additional dangerous circumstances or exigencies beyond the mobility that is inherent in any vehicle that can be operated. (Labron (1996) 518 U.S. 938, 940; Carney (1985) 471 U.S. 386, 390-391.)

Note: Apart from the "automobile exception," the general "exigent circumstances" exception can also justify a warrantless vehicle search without probable cause. (Panah (2005) 35 Cal.4th 395, 469; see discussion in Ch. 3-IV-A-2.)

Note: The "automobile exception" applies not only to any vehicle that is readily mobile, but also to any vehicle that reasonably appears mobile, even if in fact it is not. (Hatley (9th Cir. 1993) 999 F.2d 392, 395.)
Note: As will be discussed below, the "automobile exception" likewise applies to other vehicles, including motor homes, vans, bicycles, motorcycles, and houseboats.

Note: This "vehicle" or "probable cause" justification for a warrantless vehicle search is entirely separate and different from the "incident to (custodial) arrest" justification discussed under section III above, even though, in some situations, they may both exist at the same time. (Overland (1988) 203 Cal.App.3d 1114.)

The key to understanding this "automobile exception" is to realize that it is based on "probable cause" and that "probable cause" here means exactly the same thing that it does in a search warrant context, namely, enough facts, knowledge, training, etc., to provide a "fair probability" that the object you are looking for will be found in the place (portion of the car) you want to search. (See Ch. 6, "Search Warrants"; Pinela-Hernandez (9th Cir. 2001) 262 F.3d 974, 978; Allen (2000) 78 Cal.App.4th 445, 450; Nonnette (1990) 221 Cal.App.3d 659, 665-666.)

This public Service Announcement Brought to you by Wall Hacks - Driving people nutzo since 2004

LOL are you a Lawyer or a Cop?
btw I love the public service announcement.

Edge

2008-08-20 21:53:51

They're not supposed to sure but if I'm understanding correctly they are accusing him of cheating this whole season? I mean really if that was the case then they wouldn't have picked the match they did saying hes a hacker. ewR would have beaten us no mater what on that map and that match. hacks or no hacks. so their would be no reason for grain to cheat in that match which was disputed, which my I say Fearsome posted in the dispute comm that it was just a randomly picked match.

L2k

2008-08-20 21:55:02

{EE} Uncle Rico wrote:Actually, the big stink is derived from a scrim - one which we lost, that I participated in, and if Grain hacks at all, he didn't there because he was playing like shit. If someone's gonna hack, and try to win at all, you would think they would do so the entire match, not just a few instances and then end up losing.

Just because someone is hacking does not automatically mean they will win, it just means they can pull off some fishy stuff.

provost

2008-08-20 21:56:03

Who gives a damn if grain or anyone hacks, anyone feeling anger or frustration over nerds being thugs in a hasbeen virtual world has issues.

If you play this to be a cool leet multiplayer FPS legend, gtfo, go play quake COD4 or Halo.

If you play for the fun, don't play with people that annoys you.

If you play for the challenge, play the so-called hackers, you'll become damn good.

For those who feels important over the net; People reach the olympics, gets the gold on National TV, and people forget their names 2 weeks later. Don't ever think people will walk down a street and be like '' ZOMG HI YOURE THAT HL2DM PRO? "

Folowing this logic, I care not if CAL stays down or awakens right away. But since people invested time and planned their time, it would be only to be respectful and logic to let them play the damn thing.

I won't be posting anything more on this topic as it sums up my point of view.

PwNs3ttia

2008-08-20 22:16:42

yalls replies are getting too long, make em shorter so i can get moar lulz kthxbai

Edge

2008-08-20 22:21:07

PwNs3ttia wrote:yalls replies are getting too long, make em shorter so i can get moar lulz kthxbai

LOL that was the best damn post in here.

lead

2008-08-21 00:02:34

.conflict wrote:
Don't ever think people will walk down a street and be like '' ZOMG HI YOURE THAT HL2DM PRO? "

omg hey you're that conflict guy!

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-21 01:51:12

lmao yeah guys these posts are so long...I don't want to read 2 pages of people calling me guilty or skurrred and then people defending me as well. The thing is, I agree mostly with conflict and the guys that are defending me like holy and chem. Punk...get off my balls please

Oh and if a pig wanted to search my car without a warrant i wouldn't let him either because i'd have dead hookers in the back...not weed. Jeez.

Everyone has their panties in a knot over this subject and it's stupid...you say that the admins accused me of hacking in all of CAL at first, but that's wrong. This all started because SW and mostly Seagull got all sad that there was a team out there that could give them a run for their money. Rico and I scrimmed Seagull and Luke one night on Amp, Caverns, and LD at like 1 am. We were tired and bored so we thought what the hell. Rico and I played like big sacks of ass and we lost Amp and Caverns. Then on LD we didn't want to play but we said first kill wins, and Seagull was like no, match 20 mins start. So we started the match and I sprayed Luke to death with an smg. Rico then started laughing and we both typed GG and left the game. Later Luke msg'd be laughing (or...type laughing?) because he thought it was funny, but Seagull was getting all pissed at me. For lulz I said close match in LD man

And he comes back with lets 1v1 in LD and see how close it is then! Then he starts calling me out asking for a 1v1 at like 2 am and saying if he's not the best anymore who is? All cry baby shit like that. I guess after that Seagull didn't like me too much and decided to use those random scrims to prove that I'm hacking, which was a fucking RETARTED idea because we lost every round lmao. Nino was in ts a few days ago laughing his ass off while watching those demos because it was obvious how angry Seagull was at me. In one part I killed Seagull and Luke and then Seagull sprayed me to death after spawning and sprayed my dead body lol. He sprayed me every time he killed me and when him or I jihaded he'd type "t" because that's the default spray bind...lol...grow up maybe?

Now about this whole OMG IM SCARED I DONT WANT TO RELEASE MY DEMOS thing. I have seen that Seagull can take clips from demos that I play like shit in and make it look like I'm hacking. He can also give them to AC admins and try and convince them that I'm hacking as well. So if I coughed up 16 demos of myself in matches that we never lost in it'd be even easier for him to take some of my amazing kills and put them into the HACKING category. This really is just a giant witchhunt. I can put up some demos if you want, but I don't see what good that will do. I could easily have not been hacking in CAL because of the anti-cheat and still beating you because ewR pwns faces. All the demos will prove is that I don't hack in those demos...not altogether. Even if these demos do convince people that I'm not hacking it won't convince them all and the matter will go on and on all because Seagull needs a diaper change. Valiums, your accused thing was handled well back in the day. Admins disputed you, and you coughed up the demos of the 4 matches to them. The admins then reviewed the demos and decided that you weren't hacking and it was all k. That isn't the case with this shit...So far I've had Seagull takes scrims of me losing and give them to the admins to try and prove that im hacking in CAL. I've had admins ask for more demos which I've given to them only to have said demos given to people like ace, blas, etc... (once again just examples). People that shouldn't have them in the first place. Then I've had my name "tarnished" as a player, with people ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that I'm hacking and spreading it all over the community. We've even had the CAL playoffs put on hold for Christ's sake! This is obviously more than a little dispute, and I'm getting sick of it. I will put up some demo links from CAL this season if it will shut some of you cry babies up. But seriously...HL2DM is dying...why waste your time?

Start CAL back up and finish this drama before it gets even worse.

Shit...that was a long post too. haha. oh wellz.

GGHFGLDC:D:D:D:D

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2008-08-21 02:23:12

We here at ewR would like to start the playoffs please.

CellarDweller

2008-08-21 02:36:24

wait, CAL is postponed because of demo's from a non CAL scrim???

am i understanding that correct?

two snails

2008-08-21 06:09:15

grain, are you getting any lulz yet?

what i think is funny is that no one seems to be concerned with the fact that all these people who have nothing to do with cal administration are watching these demos and passing judgement. no one from any team in the league should be watching the demos accept the cal admins.

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-21 06:40:01

Exactly Doc, exactly.

oh and yeah Cellar, you're hearing correct. It all started from a FRIENDLY SCRIM that Rico and I LOST and got SPRAYED by CRYGULL everytime we died. That's how CAL got postponed. GJ guys!

PwNs3ttia

2008-08-21 07:04:30

i find these latest comments to be of a better length

two snails

2008-08-21 07:36:24

we need more lulz per minute (or lpm if youre in to the whole brevity thing)

Va|iums

2008-08-21 20:03:00

two snails wrote:we need more lulz per minute (or lpm if youre in to the whole brevity thing)

lmao.... Hey since were doing shortening our responses I'll try to keep it brief...

In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.
"Whenever you feel like criticizing any one," he told me, "just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had." He didn't say any more, but we've always been unusually communicative in a reserved way, and I understood that he meant a great deal more than that. In consequence, I'm inclined to reserve all judgments, a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me and also made me the victim of not a few veteran bores. The abnormal mind is quick to detect and attach itself to this quality when it appears in a normal person, and so it came about that in college I was unjustly accused of being a politician, because I was privy to the secret griefs of wild, unknown men. Most of the confidences were unsought—frequently I have feigned sleep, preoccupation, or a hostile levity when I realized by some unmistakable sign that an intimate revelation was quivering on the horizon; for the intimate revelations of young men, or at least the terms in which they express them, are usually plagiaristic and marred by obvious suppressions. Reserving judgments is a matter of infinite hope. I am still a little afraid of missing something if I forget that, as my father snobbishly suggested, and I snobbishly repeat, a sense of the fundamental decencies is parcelled out unequally at birth..

At any rate, Miss Baker's lips fluttered, she nodded at me almost imperceptibly, and then quickly tipped her head back again—the object she was balancing had obviously tottered a little and given her something of a fright. Again a sort of apology arose to my lips. Almost any exhibition of complete self-sufficiency draws a stunned tribute from me. I looked back at my cousin, who began to ask me questions in her low, thrilling voice. It was the kind of voice that the ear follows up and down, as if each speech is an arrangement of notes that will never be played again. Her face was sad and lovely with bright things in it, bright eyes and a bright passionate mouth, but there was an excitement in her voice that men who had cared for her found difficult to forget: a singing compulsion, a whispered "Listen," a promise that she had done gay, exciting things just a while since and that there were gay, exciting things hovering in the next hour.

Towel Head

2008-08-21 20:23:07

BuckyKatt wrote:
L2k wrote:I guess you didn't see the part where in my example I said the cop says "I think I smell marijuana coming out of your van" that there is probable cause and would be totally different than the cop saying "just because you drive a van with a picture of the grateful dead on the side, I think you may have some drugs in here." which would be a search based on principal alone.

The fact that some of the clips seagull made showed Grain tracking players thru walls and then blowing up nades in their faces, kind of leads to probable cause in this case.
No... I saw that bit. And if the cop felt he had probable cause and still asked if he could search my car he would get the same answer from me (whether I was guilty of it or not) on principal alone. If he feels he has probable cause he doesn't have to ask. If he asks he is doubting himself and then does not in fact have probable cause.

The argument also breaks down because grain can not be compelled by force to allow us to search his demos. A cop with probable cause can remove you from your car.

Why would you let him search your car. He could be corrupt just like some of the CAL admins could also be.

provost

2008-08-21 21:04:32

UNOFFICIAL STATEMENT.

CAL admins are busy unlocking their TF2 achievements

Thorofin

2008-08-21 23:04:56

.conflict wrote:UNOFFICIAL STATEMENT.

CAL admins are busy unlocking their TF2 achievements

Sammich anyone??

<kyle>

2008-08-21 23:58:56

yall so stupid

ninjins

2008-08-22 00:49:23

.conflict wrote:Who gives a damn if grain or anyone hacks, anyone feeling anger or frustration over nerds being thugs in a hasbeen virtual world has issues.

If you play this to be a cool leet multiplayer FPS legend, gtfo, go play quake COD4 or Halo.

If you play for the fun, don't play with people that annoys you.

If you play for the challenge, play the so-called hackers, you'll become damn good.

For those who feels important over the net; People reach the olympics, gets the gold on National TV, and people forget their names 2 weeks later. Don't ever think people will walk down a street and be like '' ZOMG HI YOURE THAT HL2DM PRO? "

Folowing this logic, I care not if CAL stays down or awakens right away. But since people invested time and planned their time, it would be only to be respectful and logic to let them play the damn thing.

I won't be posting anything more on this topic as it sums up my point of view.

because of this post i need not say anything

Book

2008-08-22 03:12:41

I love love love love you all!

shunnyboy

2008-08-22 05:29:07

Book wrote:I love love love love you all!

rofl

Briggs

2008-08-22 09:36:38

Book wrote:I love love love love you all! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

hey that's bahlks job. go away

Charles

2008-08-22 13:15:21

.conflict wrote:UNOFFICIAL STATEMENT.

CAL admins are busy unlocking their TF2 achievements

Friggin nubs, use the .exe... oh wai-

I c wut dat'd do.

Paradox

2008-08-24 20:56:07

.conflict wrote:UNOFFICIAL STATEMENT.

CAL admins are busy unlocking their TF2 achievements

LAME! TF2...meh; achievements....more meh.

Been on vacation havent started a game of anything in over a week. Been enjoying the sun and the ocean, plying the deep for large scombrid fishes, seeing dolphins and sea turtles, drinking and having fun with friends. Kinda puts all this BS in perspective.....yep still BS.

CoNfuSed

2008-08-24 23:43:56

hmm, I think that was a total useless post paradox...

Blasphemy

2008-08-25 00:15:30

CoNfuSed wrote:hmm, I think that was a total useless post confused...

Blasphemy

2008-08-25 00:16:30

Blasphemy wrote:
CoNfuSed wrote:hmm, I think that was a total useless post blasphemy...

yah

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-25 00:30:23

yeah, that was pointless paradox.

would you like me to go on and on about the past few days that I've lived? No? Okay sweet, so don't do it either.

Paradox

2008-08-25 06:15:50

No I dont Grain, but give me a chance to get caught up. I understand you have been having some issues. I will talk to a higher level admin and see if we can get those resolved for you and everyone else.

SND

2008-08-25 07:07:55

its damn hard to tell if someone is using a hack one kill from a demo is not good enuff to tell if someone uses a wall hack im sure someone of u have done a kill and u say to your self omg that look like i used a wallhack when if fact it was just your experience and good hearing and allot of luck that pulled it off.

what gives a wall hacker away is there movement across the map in relation to their opponents and key behavior patterns. Its best no to jump to conclusions on wall hacking from one kill. Plus don't be surprised if in game your opponent seem to know where u are your just being predicable so look at how u play if they catch on to it the change your game play.

Anyway using hacks of any sort of a way is the truest and lamest thing u can do in any game. Anyone will be pissed at hackers who wouldn't your trained so much to get to the level u are at and your being put at a big disadvantage which u can not gain back making most of those skills useless.

The attitude of jumping to the conclusions that someone hacks with out fully looking into it before opening your mouth is not healthy for the community.

Zman42

2008-08-25 17:50:41

holy i want your babies.

Edge

2008-08-25 18:17:49

lmao holymoly that was one epic post of awesomeness.

Anonymous

2008-08-25 18:29:19

WOW, your career could be Romance novels, with the rippling chest and "dripping mixture of sweat and water".

0nti

2008-08-26 04:52:40

toootally epic holy hahaahahah

DEATH-ANGEL

2008-08-26 09:47:29

Can we see more of this?

CellarDweller

2008-08-26 19:38:32

A little less conversation, a little more action please
All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark
Close your mouth and open up your heart and baby satisfy me
Satisfy me baby

Baby close your eyes and listen to the music
Drifting through a summer breeze
It's a groovy night and I can show you how to use it
Come along with me and put your mind at ease

A little less conversation, a little more action please
All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark
Close your mouth and open up your heart and baby satisfy me
Satisfy me baby

Come on baby I'm tired of talking
Grab your coat and let's start walking
Come on, come on
Come on, come on
Come on, come on
Don't procrastinate, don't articulate
Girl it's getting late, gettin' upset waitin' around

A little less conversation, a little more action please
All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark
Close your mouth and open up your heart and baby satisfy me
Satisfy me baby

GatesMcTaste

2008-08-26 19:43:08

lawl Elvis lives... who'd have thunk it?

Seagull

2008-08-27 01:27:56

Nutri-Grain wrote:

Ignored first paragraph because anyone can make up random, inaccurate guesses when they don't know anything.

Now about this whole OMG IM SCARED I DONT WANT TO RELEASE MY DEMOS thing. I have seen that Seagull can take clips from demos that I play like shit in and make it look like I'm hacking.

Look out guys, that's not actually Grain playing. It's someone else entirely. I'm obviously taking them out of context (There's no "leading up to the incident" or "team communications", what are those foreign concepts!)

He can also give them to AC admins and try and convince them that I'm hacking as well. So if I coughed up 16 demos of myself in matches that we never lost in it'd be even easier for him to take some of my amazing kills and put them into the HACKING category.

I don't have a single thing to do with CAL, they aren't feeding me any demos at all. I'm getting everything from my own server that I've done scrims vs you in 2v2s. You seem afraid to post your demos here because you're scared that others will see your bullshit.

This really is just a giant witchhunt.

THIS HAS ONLY HAPPENED TO GRAIN, RIGHT GUYS? lol

I can put up some demos if you want, but I don't see what good that will do. I could easily have not been hacking in CAL because of the anti-cheat and still beating you because ewR pwns faces.

Then again you could've easily been cheating and barely winning anyway. Wouldn't surprise me based on your attitude.

All the demos will prove is that I don't hack in those demos...not altogether.

And those demos will be just CAL and those are pretty much the only games that count.

Even if these demos do convince people that I'm not hacking it won't convince them all and the matter will go on and on all because Seagull needs a diaper change.

Cute, but you act like I have so much power that I can make CAL stop along with tons of other stuff. This is simply not true.

Valiums, your accused thing was handled well back in the day. Admins disputed you, and you coughed up the demos of the 4 matches to them. The admins then reviewed the demos and decided that you weren't hacking and it was all k. That isn't the case with this shit...So far I've had Seagull takes scrims of me losing and give them to the admins to try and prove that im hacking in CAL.

Yeah and this is exactly what's happening to you as well. A few weeks ago Voxtex posted the cheating dispute in IRC and it said to upload all demos. From past experience, they will also be reviewed and come to a decision. And of course I'm giving demos to the admins. Not to prove that you're specifically cheating in CAL though - just in those specific cases there's suspicious stuff and that there could also be more inside CAL, where matches actually count.

I've had admins ask for more demos which I've given to them only to have said demos given to people like ace, blas, etc... (once again just examples). People that shouldn't have them in the first place.

Err.. the admins haven't even given the demos to ME. Do you seriously think they're going to give it to those players, specifically Ace? You're delusional.

Then I've had my name "tarnished" as a player, with people ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that I'm hacking and spreading it all over the community. We've even had the CAL playoffs put on hold for Christ's sake! This is obviously more than a little dispute, and I'm getting sick of it.

This comes with most cheating disputes

I will put up some demo links from CAL this season if it will shut some of you cry babies up. But seriously...HL2DM is dying...why waste your time?

This seriously makes you sound so ridiculously guilty. To me, it sounds like you're convinced that "HL2DM is dying" and as such want to get the most fun out of it as you can, and cheating is pretty fun imo.

Start CAL back up and finish this drama before it gets even worse.

Maybe you should post your CAL demos so people can make up their own minds and put more pressure on CAL to start it back up.

holymoly wrote:Hang on a second and let me recap this thread.

CAL requires players to run an anti-cheat client during league matches, and Grain was running this client during a league match. But you say the client is a fallible, so Grain not having any blacklisted programs running during the match proves nothing.

True.

The CAL admins have demos of Grain from the league match in question. They've been showing them to other people, who have been telling other people that Grain is clearly a hacker. These people have pretty much told the entire community that Grain is a hacker, before the CAL admins have even made a verdict.

Completely false. The admins aren't giving out any demos.

The rest of the points are false as well.

Nutri-Grain wrote:yeah thats great guys but im not gonna give away all my cal demos to everyone when people are still trying to prove me as a hacker and that will just give them more footage and possibly my steam information so they can show the shit to the higher AC admins. Sooo ill give you more demos after CAL season...if it starts back up again.

LOL. This is cute. Someone finally calls out Grain on why he's asking OTHERS for demos to post instead of posting out himself and he doesn't want to because "people are still trying to prove me as a hacker and that will just give them more footage and possibly my steam information so they can show the shit to the higher AC admins"? So basically you don't want to post them because they might find suspicious stuff? And, of course, let's not forget his other excuse of "most of these demos are being used in a frag vid that im SLOWLY making sooo I don't want to give away all my frags". You'd think that proving yourself to the community that you don't cheat is more important than a frag video that people might not download if your reputation as a possible cheater continues, but what do I know, right?

shunnyboy

2008-08-27 01:56:56

i will dl nutri's frag vid regardless

fark that post by holymoly was funny... smart ass

Nutri-Grain

2008-08-27 10:56:19

way to take wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too long to post in this thread Seagull. Basically the only argument that you want to make is that I'm scared to put up my demos because I'm guilty and I don't want people seeing that I hack. This isn't true but you can believe what you want, just like everyone else can. I was disputed not by voxtex, but by wrw2 for the first dispute in CAL. Then after talking to vox and edge I realized that it wasn't them that made the dispute, it was one of the CAL admins. So i coughed up the two demos and I thought everything would be solved. Then I get disputed again asking for ALL my CAL 4v4 demos. I think it's a bit extreme, but I sent those in as well. Now there may be another dispute in the making... Is it just me or is this getting a bit old? I just want this mess to be over with so CAL can move on without this drama, but obviously some of the admins have different goals. I don't feel the need to share all my CAL demos with the community right away; not because I feel guilty, but because I don't feel like wasting my time uploading 250mbs of demos to filefront so that everyone can watch me play my matches. I have given the demos to the CAL admins and I had to use Paradox's ftp and account to upload the file since CAL wouldn't allow something so big. In my opinion, the only people that need/deserve to have these demos are the CAL admins, and these are the only people that will get them for now. Once this whole thing is over I will gladly put up some demos if the community still wants them, but for now this situation is between the CAL admins and I (and ewR). If you still feel like this post "has guilt written all over it" then that's the way it is, but I won't be "forced" into coughing up these demos just because people believe something that isn't true. If you think I'm guilty then fine, if you don't that's also fine, I don't really care. The only thing I care about is solving this stupid thing once and for all and moving on.

Seagull

2008-08-27 12:03:41

Nutri-Grain wrote:way to take wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too long to post in this thread Seagull. Basically the only argument that you want to make is that I'm scared to put up my demos because I'm guilty and I don't want people seeing that I hack. This isn't true but you can believe what you want, just like everyone else can. I was disputed not by voxtex, but by wrw2 for the first dispute in CAL. Then after talking to vox and edge I realized that it wasn't them that made the dispute, it was one of the CAL admins. So i coughed up the two demos and I thought everything would be solved. Then I get disputed again asking for ALL my CAL 4v4 demos. I think it's a bit extreme, but I sent those in as well. Now there may be another dispute in the making... Is it just me or is this getting a bit old? I just want this mess to be over with so CAL can move on without this drama, but obviously some of the admins have different goals. I don't feel the need to share all my CAL demos with the community right away; not because I feel guilty, but because I don't feel like wasting my time uploading 250mbs of demos to filefront so that everyone can watch me play my matches. I have given the demos to the CAL admins and I had to use Paradox's ftp and account to upload the file since CAL wouldn't allow something so big. In my opinion, the only people that need/deserve to have these demos are the CAL admins, and these are the only people that will get them for now. Once this whole thing is over I will gladly put up some demos if the community still wants them, but for now this situation is between the CAL admins and I (and ewR). If you still feel like this post "has guilt written all over it" then that's the way it is, but I won't be "forced" into coughing up these demos just because people believe something that isn't true. If you think I'm guilty then fine, if you don't that's also fine, I don't really care. The only thing I care about is solving this stupid thing once and for all and moving on.

Well actually it seems to me that my argument is that you should post the demos so the community can make a decision on whether or not you're cheating in CAL, but you seem to not want to do this for bullshit reasons again and again such as "people are still trying to prove me as a hacker and that will just give them more footage and possibly my steam information so they can show the shit to the higher AC admins", "most of these demos are being used in a frag vid that im SLOWLY making sooo I don't want to give away all my frags" and now finally "I don't feel like wasting my time uploading 250mbs of demos to filefront so that everyone can watch me play my matches.".

And of course let's not forget the fact that the dispute specifically said, according to the copy/paste in IRC to "upload all demos", yet you specifically say later in #hl2dm:

(9:58:21 PM) Grain: you'll get 2 wrw2 demos
(9:58:24 PM) Grain: thats it

And you attempt to say that you want this drama to be over with?

On top of this, you then accuse them: "obviously some of the admins have different goals". lol?

"The only thing I care about is solving this stupid thing once and for all and moving on."

If you really cared about solving this and moving on, then the obvious thing to do would be to upload your CAL demos and let the community decide, but it seems that the community doesn't deserve them and uploading overnight is just too much of a hassle for you.

snipeIT

2008-08-27 12:08:39

Nutri-Grain wrote:way to take wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too long to post in this thread Seagull. Basically the only argument that you want to make is that I'm scared to put up my demos because I'm guilty and I don't want people seeing that I hack. This isn't true but you can believe what you want, just like everyone else can. I was disputed not by voxtex, but by wrw2 for the first dispute in CAL. Then after talking to vox and edge I realized that it wasn't them that made the dispute, it was one of the CAL admins. So i coughed up the two demos and I thought everything would be solved. Then I get disputed again asking for ALL my CAL 4v4 demos. I think it's a bit extreme, but I sent those in as well. Now there may be another dispute in the making... Is it just me or is this getting a bit old? I just want this mess to be over with so CAL can move on without this drama, but obviously some of the admins have different goals. I don't feel the need to share all my CAL demos with the community right away; not because I feel guilty, but because I don't feel like wasting my time uploading 250mbs of demos to filefront so that everyone can watch me play my matches. I have given the demos to the CAL admins and I had to use Paradox's ftp and account to upload the file since CAL wouldn't allow something so big. In my opinion, the only people that need/deserve to have these demos are the CAL admins, and these are the only people that will get them for now. Once this whole thing is over I will gladly put up some demos if the community still wants them, but for now this situation is between the CAL admins and I (and ewR). If you still feel like this post "has guilt written all over it" then that's the way it is, but I won't be "forced" into coughing up these demos just because people believe something that isn't true. If you think I'm guilty then fine, if you don't that's also fine, I don't really care. The only thing I care about is solving this stupid thing once and for all and moving on.

Your sorta contradicting yourself over and over.

You want to solve the problem yet you dont want to upload demos, but you kinda do, but dont want to, and kinda do, and you dont care that much and shit....awww man

Paradox

2008-08-27 15:08:27

Ok. Grain has a right not to make his demos public. He is correct in that at this point it is between him and the CAL admins. He was asked for the demos again by the CAL admins and he has provided them once secure a means to do so was given to him. I offered my FTP as a secure place for him to upload them since the CAL site wouldnt accept them. No one besides CAL officials will be given access to the files on my FTP. The only ones with access info at this time are Grain, me and a couple of CAL officials. Its a rather complex password and it will be changed as soon as everyone that has to have the demos has them.

Uncle Rico

2008-08-27 19:37:08

Seagull wrote: Well actually it seems to me that my argument is that you should post the demos so the community can make a decision on whether or not you're cheating in CAL, but you seem to not want to do this for bullshit reasons again and again such as "people are still trying to prove me as a hacker and that will just give them more footage and possibly my steam information so they can show the shit to the higher AC admins", "most of these demos are being used in a frag vid that im SLOWLY making sooo I don't want to give away all my frags" and now finally "I don't feel like wasting my time uploading 250mbs of demos to filefront so that everyone can watch me play my matches.".

The demos are none of the community's business at this point. CAL admins have them, it's up to them now.

Seagull wrote:And of course let's not forget the fact that the dispute specifically said, according to the copy/paste in IRC to "upload all demos", yet you specifically say later in #hl2dm:

(9:58:21 PM) Grain: you'll get 2 wrw2 demos
(9:58:24 PM) Grain: thats it

WRW and ewR received completely different messages from CAL. I know this is apparently hard for some of you to understand, but ewR's dispute message stated that he was to submit the demos of 'the' match.

Seagull wrote:And you attempt to say that you want this drama to be over with?

It almost was over with. Way to go with bumping this dead thread. I suppose it will be over with when we're done making fun of you now.

Seagull wrote:On top of this, you then accuse them: "obviously some of the admins have different goals". lol?

"The only thing I care about is solving this stupid thing once and for all and moving on."

If you really cared about solving this and moving on, then the obvious thing to do would be to upload your CAL demos and let the community decide, but it seems that the community doesn't deserve them and uploading overnight is just too much of a hassle for you.

95% of the people that initially sided with you have come forward now and apologized to Grain after seeing the full demos as opposed to your .avi's. Apparently there's a 5% margin for stupidity and/or poor vision. The CAL match demos are in the hands of those that need them at this point, if Grain wants to release them after this is over I'm sure he will. What Grain doesn't want is for someone like you to take his demos, tear them apart, make avi's and try to convince people that something 'suspicious' is going on like you've already done.