idea of a world wide league system

hello,

i am here to ask the whole hl2dm community a question ...

i watch the community since 2-3 years, i see leagues spawning and falling. i see many peoples like to play in leagues or teams together against other squads, there are many clans out there

and i see leagues closing because of very small differences, and open new leagues to fix these differences without care the old problems. so this will split the whole community into two or more groups. instead of fighting these groups each other and kill each other, it will be better to collect anybody together

we all know the latest leagues contains more and more real pro gamer, but very less new squads. there are so many clans out there they not know the advantages of hl2dm, they have no interest to learn it, or got boring if they meet someone they know anything. in the last time i see the leagues will be smaller and smaller, the skill higher and higher, well new clans did not want to play in this league, because to high skilled at all. i see there a dangerous future

these things i see the last months and i start to thing about a new league

but stop, before you start thinking - aehm - new league - not again - just read to the end

my thinking machine evaluate since some time a new league system with an all happy feature, sound crazy i know, sounds impossible, but i guess it will be possible

my question is, before i start the development (takes several months), make it sense to build this stuff or not. Well i can develop it, but it takes time and before i spend this time into a dead project (again), i can spend it outside (where ever it is ... some peoples told me it should be behind the big rectangle in my room)

these features are on my brain list :

- one single signup each player
- squad creation and joining
- multiple systems (xvx, 4v4, 3v3, 2v2, 1v1, 0v0)
- different systems (with or without rpg, ff on or off)
- various gameplays like team-dm, ctf, killbox
- general division system with weekly predefined wars
- challange system with ranking system
- world wide system (north/south/middle america, europe, australia, asia, africa)
- separate skill level based divisions sections (beginner / pro)

some details :

* player actions

a player signup the system just once. than he can join or create squads. these squads can be tagged to an gameplay mode. so a player can freely join a 3v3 killbox with rpg on, ff off and can join a ctf 10v10 and so on. a player can manage his actions all alone

* gameplay modi

for most of all gameplay modi are two different type available. either challenge/ranking or division/fixed system. gameplay modi can be any combination of 3v3, or 2v2, or 4v4, or else, with or whitout rpg, with ff on or off, with spam on or off ... and so on. this will produce a very big spread of all kind of gameplays

the division/fixed system is like a predifed table where squads have to fight eachother, any week. ranking system will provide a complete challange system where squads challange the other squads. but all challages and fixed games are separated in his own gameplay modi, no mixture. players can join multiple squads, so player can mixing however he like

* world wide

because of these massive various gameplay modi, result must be, the system should act world wide. any gameplay modi will be continent local, not global. because australian squads did not challange european squads - ping issues. so any continent have his own ranking. a player can join a australian and european squad, this will be ok, but squads are flagged to one continent only. if an american squad challange an asian squad, there will be an special intercontinental ranking established. these results did not care in local continent space

* extendable

the system will be total flexible, and can used for future games if hl2dm died (lol). maybe for tf2 (what ever that is) or other system. pro mod by example and so on

...

well many text ... many stuff to do ...

big question is : have the community interest an a system like this or not.

please thing about, it take much time to development, because develop from scratch, no pimp-up an existing system (webspell) or else. because existing systems can not handle that what i want ... if you tired of hl2dm or of league system, be cool, say "wasting time", if you like the idea and you wanna use it say "yeah do it", are you unsure about the sense say "senseless", if you are thinking - what the fuck you want - say "what the fuck ...." and so on ... remember please - truth be told ...

this is just an idea ... nothing more ...

thanks for reading this grammatical wrong and bad english text

^^

First of all because of the ping differences between Europe, South America and North America, it will never work because no one in NA wants to play on a Euro server and vice versa. Another thing, just within North America, we have had trouble scheduling matches between just the East and West coast (3 hours difference). Now throw in 5+ hours difference between NA and Europe and it will be impossible for teams to agree or if you have a set time each week, its bound to be too late, too early or just not good for anyone. Also as we have seen, the play preferences between the European and NA players wont allow for any agreement between them for league server settings.

This has been discussed in the past many times, it didnt work then and I dont see it working now.

GLHF

Silla wrote: - world wide system (north/south/middle america, europe, australia, asia, africa)

Paradox wrote:First of all because of the ping differences between Europe, South America and North America, it will never work because no one in NA wants to play on a Euro server and vice versa. Another thing, just within North America, we have had trouble scheduling matches between just the East and West coast (3 hours difference). Now throw in 5+ hours difference between NA and Europe and it will be impossible for teams to agree or if you have a set time each week, its bound to be too late, too early or just not good for anyone. Also as we have seen, the play preferences between the European and NA players wont allow for any agreement between them for league server settings.

They will be split up.

Also, this has been done before. D; I don't think you were around for it, but there was an ILDM. (Internation League of DM) We usually had matches scheduled around 2pm est. It worked out well, and we were playing 6v6 matches. D:

Paradox wrote:First of all because of the ping differences between Europe, South America and North America, it will never work because no one in NA wants to play on a Euro server and vice versa. Another thing, just within North America, we have had trouble scheduling matches between just the East and West coast (3 hours difference). Now throw in 5+ hours difference between NA and Europe and it will be impossible for teams to agree or if you have a set time each week, its bound to be too late, too early or just not good for anyone. Also as we have seen, the play preferences between the European and NA players wont allow for any agreement between them for league server settings.

This has been discussed in the past many times, it didnt work then and I dont see it working now.

GLHF

Hi,

well ... maybe i do not explain it well (because of my super english)

but do not get it wrong. i do not want build a global league. Hell no ... i know that is nearly impossible to bring two squads from different areas together. Ping, config, teamplay issues ...

the system "can" handle intercontinental matches, but these are did not affect the local ranking system

the system is just one system where you can play wars/ranked/challenged in your own area

with america, you are right, the time difference is to much, it is possible to split that continent into peaces, like west/east coast and central. but these rankings/fixed divisions are local in this area.

in ranking mode all wars counted in this area, if you challenge a asia team, this will be ranked in the international area, has nothing to do with your local area

hmmm ... this is "just" (lol) a collector of all existing leagues or areas together to one single system. that is the idea.

Not a "global" leagues as anybody-fight-against-anybody ... no no ... this will fail ...

badinfluence wrote:It worked out well, and we were playing 6v6 matches. D:

this is "just" another gameplay modi. you can combine any 12 vs. 12 with any predefined config. Either

12 versus 12, FF on, RPG off, 90 min, gravity 1200

or

2v2 FF off, RPG on, 15min, cheats on ...

no matter, the system will handle this. Any area (continent) can have special config. The system will not force
anybody to use just one config, this will not function at all see global league ...

Predefined config are CAL, CU, OFF and so on, and special config

Silla wrote:

badinfluence wrote:It worked out well, and we were playing 6v6 matches. D:

this is "just" another gameplay modi. you can combine any 12 vs. 12 with any predefined config. Either

12 versus 12, FF on, RPG off, 90 min, gravity 1200

or

2v2 FF off, RPG on, 15min, cheats on ...

no matter, the system will handle this. Any area (continent) can have special config. The system will not force
anybody to use just one config, this will not function at all see global league ...

Predefined config are CAL, CU, OFF and so on, and special config

My comment was directed towards Paradox where she said that International leagues do not work. I corrected her saying that we've already had an international league, and it did work until people altogether quti playing their matches. When people quti playing their matches, that was on the Deathmatch side. Before that, we had a 6v6 league of Capture the Flag. It worked out well because it was scheduled for 2pmest.

i understand where you are going with this its just, why have a global league if you are only going to play local teams. plus euro play is SOOOO much different then NA play, especially for leagues. FF for example. not to mention, as Para stated, we cant even keep a league together in the US. im not trying to turn you off to the idea, just giving you things to consider. this sounds like a HUGE undertaking.

I like the idea, if you can get this to work, that would be awesome. But with para said before, that won't work out, but i see what you meant.

let me try to explain my idea by an example, maybe i can get this one better

ok, you signup as a player. then you can create a squad or join a squad, how ever.

the squad has special values. you can setup some special values in the squad, like rpg off, ff on and so on. You setup the squad into a area/continent (west coast, australia, ...)

then you can use the "find a system that fit exactly my setup" and it will list by example an european system if your squad tagged as european. then you can join this system (seems like a waiting list)

if you do not found any systems, you can search for squads they prefer same settings like your squad. if you found some squads you can create a new system

Well, exact this was happen last year in europe with CU and OFF league. OFF league was primary without rpg. This split the community. Peoples in CU did not care OFF and OFF did not care CU, both systems do the "same" but was two different systems. Meanwhile OFF is dead, because of missing players and so on.

To prevent this die-ing of leagues, organization of leagues and so on, i decide to try to make a total flexible system. the advantage will be - all stick together, but play with the settings they like. The new system will not force any settings !

We cant even get a league over here to last more than a couple of months if that, because people dont participate. Does anyone think a "new" thing is going to not have the same result?

Para, i don't see why you have to be so negative. You are right though, thre have been leagues that havn't worked out, first it was cal once it ended, and then no one wanted to participate in Da1's league. I think what he is doing is really cool, and maybe once he gets his stuff setup, people might actually consider joining it, it may not be much, but if we can get some ppl, we can seperate clans into seperate teams. Like if there aren't many clans participating, im sure they could seperate their own clan up into other ones. the main problem basically is that people won't come back unless there is money put into it. everyone is going off to games where they can win shit. dm is the best game i've ever played personally, and just because there are a couple bugs in it and frekin cyn and all those other guys don't play anymore, doesn't mean we shouldn't. I say silla, keep it up, and i would try to help get many people involved as possible. but there is a chance we may not have enough ppl participate. but i'd say lets give it a shot and see.

If you are going to do this I think you have to be willing to do it for something bigger then just HL2DM. It is going to take a large effort to make a decent front and back end for a league that can handle different admins, of different levels and everything that you see at a site like CAL was. It may take you a year or more to complete the code and have it worked out and bug free enough to be really effective. By the time you do that you may not even want to play HL2DM. If you were coding it to give the code away to anyone so they could run leagues for all sorts of communities I would say go for it then you are not concerned with the fate of HL2DM and your code will not go wasted.

Silla wrote:my thinking machine

I want one.

Paradox wrote:We cant even get a league over here to last more than a couple of months if that, because people dont participate. Does anyone think a "new" thing is going to not have the same result?

hi paradox,

well you are right. I do not have any arguments against that but i see a small leak, i will use it now ... hehe

the big question is "why nobody participate a league"

if someone build a new league system, like Da1 (sorry - i did not know it) or OFF or XYZ, these peoples spend much time into a new league system, any they will define rules how to play in this league. well sure - they have to do this - because it is a league

now what happen

you have a new league, with rules. you need admins and players. so you have to invite world to participate the league system. but the biggest problem is there are some peoples out there they do not accept these rules (however what the rules say)

the result is that these peoples do not join this league, you got less players, less squads in result you can not well making a general classic division matches, because you have not enough squads

any new league they will be born in future will have this problem

the peoples they did not agree the rules or admins or what ever, got bored and disappointed from the game or from the peoples and left the game or did not care any league, this means you will still lost peoples because of some small things

furthermore if you have to separate leagues, you still need for both leagues an admin team, both leagues fight against same problems at all (cheater, flamers, etc.pp.) but instead of sharing informations - it will exact the opposite thing happens - this is sad, bad, anything (i see this happen with CU and OFF). anyway this makes absolute no sense and just kill the community

my idea goes into another direction. not just a new league, no. just a system to provide league functionality, where the players decide what league-system they want to have or participate. with a rule system create by the players

hmmm ... you can see my idea as an cms system (like webspell) where i will provide all necessary functions to run a league. but this is total senseless, this will not provide any solutions for the hl2dm universum .. haha .. just a cms .. boring ... did not solve the "i leave because i disagree bla" things

... this is what i thing about ... / maybe wrong - but this is why i am here to ask for /

needs prizes if you want to attract people from other games, but if this is to be made only for the benefit of the community/something fun to do besides puzzle games (lol),prizes shouldnt really matter. also a poll for admins, fair admins and not people who are know to have grudges against people and bend the rules of the leagues for the benefit of their team

vaporizer wrote:Para, i don't see why you have to be so negative. You are right though, thre have been leagues that havn't worked out, first it was cal once it ended, and then no one wanted to participate in Da1's league. I think what he is doing is really cool, and maybe once he gets his stuff setup, people might actually consider joining it, it may not be much, but if we can get some ppl, we can seperate clans into seperate teams. Like if there aren't many clans participating, im sure they could seperate their own clan up into other ones. the main problem basically is that people won't come back unless there is money put into it. everyone is going off to games where they can win shit. DM is the best game i've ever played personally, and just because there are a couple bugs in it and frekin cyn and all those other guys don't play anymore, doesn't mean we shouldn't. I say silla, keep it up, and i would try to help get many people involved as possible. but there is a chance we may not have enough ppl participate. but i'd say lets give it a shot and see.

Not being negative, just pointing out the blatently obvious, so obvious even a dead, blind man can see it. The game is dead for competative play.
As far as money and prizes are concerned: people have discussed that many times before too. Not many people seem interested in $100, as generous as it is for someone to give out of their own pocket. The sad truth is that unless someone wants to donate a large sum of money (over $1000 or more) to get people to give a shit about playing this game competatively again, its just not going to happen. We can all probably guess who would win it anyway, which is another thing that prevents people from getting into it. I just dont see it happening, sorry thats my opinion. Fearsome is right, to do a league anywhere near what CAL was, if that is in fact what people want, is going to take months to design a web site to do that. The game, let alone any of us dont have the time to do it or the money to pay for it. You also need at minimum a team of at least 4 admins, which once again no one wants to spend their time doing that.

Also, competative play appears to be on the way out, especially with game developers going toward matchmaking like the consoles have instead of dedicated servers. It truely is a step backwards. Add on to that the fact that there are tons of new games out and coming out that are going to further dilute the player base for DM. How many clans/players have moved on to L4D, TF2, QL, CSS. Lots and lots. I have fought against the death of this game for years, but I refuse to ignore the facts any longer. I truely hate to say it folks, but its declining and its still going to decline, no matter how much we love the game and how much we think it is the best game ever made. The majority of gamers disagree; it just doesnt fit into the current trend. People want games they dont have to work so hard to get good at. All I am saying is just dont be disappointed when you spend a ton of time and effort and it doesnt work. I love this game as well as any of you and it will always be my favorite game, but at this point, I prefer to just enjoy whats left, celebrate what it was and look forward to new things than to beat my head against a wall to save a game that most people just dont care enough about any more. But if you think you can swoop in with your red cape and save HL2DM by building some global league when the local ones are failing left and right, GLHF.

you're right para, it is a dead game. but him putting out his time and effort to do it i think is really cool. im sure after he completes it maybe people would like the idea and if there is a prize as well maybe even play. i don't think there needs to be 1000 dollars in order for people to play. if all you guys are concerned is money to play a damn game, that is really pathetic. and you would be surprised para how many ppl play, the people who play just aren't that good. maybe if ppl introduced them into the community and taught them how to play i don't see that being a problem. you're just thinking of the ppl like sw, ewr, and all the old clans. and yes some other ppl as well. i'd say keep doing it silla, i like that you are trying to do it. even if there is not many teams who will participate who cares. it's something to do and i think it would be fun. as well as i am concerned, that warfare arena server is pretty damn popular, and there are ALOT of people who probably play killbox all the time and don't have never been near any good players. im sure if someone was to go to some killbox clan and introduce them to it, they would get the feel and maybe sign up for the league. but yeah, alot of the good deathmatch players have gone away. to do other important thinks like play other games to win money.

Unfortunately Vap, we've introduced killbox players and they don't want to play.

and the ones that aren't that good think all of us are bunny hopping, grav nading, orb punching scripters and hackers. They have made up their mind that that is the truth, no matter what anyone says. They don't want to learn or get better and the don't want to play competatively. They just would rather ban anyone that does those things so that they don't have to deal with you. I've tried and I've been banned from several servers because of my bhopping hax.

don't waste your time.

who the fuck is blasphemy

Your Daddy.