Pre-vote // Format

Might have to define what a 'new' map is, I still consider caverns_r1 a 'new' map. But w/e might be the we define 'new' map as something that has not been used in cal.




We will go with pool play for the 2v2 cup.
This will mean we need 5 maps and 4 more teams.

Fux it ill go with the flow and vote for 4 new maps. On a side note the seeding concept is pretty kool and I completely support it. I suspect there will be alot of trial and error in this tourney which is why I'm holding off my monetary donation until the next one. On a side note quick logging off before I have chance to ask you to do some 2v2's Blas

define 'new'

nomination thread ends Wednesday and vote goes up.

ninojman wrote:define 'new'

nomination thread ends Wednesday and vote goes up.

New maps to me are maps not used in CAL for one full season. Caverns_R1 and Mileau were not used for a full season and thus deserve a shot under the "new" map definitive umbrella.

I don't think caverns_r1 is a "new" map, even if it didn't go through a FULL season of cal, people played it millions of times and in my opinion shouldn't be considered a "new" map at all, though milieu i think should, because I haven't seen a lot of people playing it that much, and it was played only in like 1 or 2 cal matches at most.

CoNfuSed wrote:I don't think caverns_r1 is a "new" map, even if it didn't go through a FULL season of cal, people played it millions of times and in my opinion shouldn't be considered a "new" map at all, though milieu i think should, because I haven't seen a lot of people playing it that much, and it was played only in like 1 or 2 cal matches at most.

Wouldn't it be much more of a challenge playing a totally unfamiliar map?
It would still be fun and then it would be known at the end if it was a good map for competition or not.
The other thing is if it turned out to be a bad map competitive wise, both teams would be at the same disadvantage during the competition.

What if you want old maps that have never been played in a league? What would you call those?

Sacrifist wrote:What if you want old maps that have never been played in a league? What would you call those?

they would be 'new' to competition play. Yet old map itself.

Caverns was used in one full season of cal. So could be considered 'old' I still think of it as a new and fresh map mainly because out of all of the full seasons i have played it was in about 10%. If you started post Fios 20% and in s3 50% which would be most players now playing now. So it would feel old to them.

I guess I will put dm_caverns_r1 *old* or new on the other maps in the vote and we can discuss if you feel that map is in fact whatever I put down. If we feel a vote is needed we can vote on a certain map being new or old if need be.

ninojman wrote:

Sacrifist wrote:What if you want old maps that have never been played in a league? What would you call those?

they would be 'new' to competition play. Yet old map itself.

Caverns was used in one full season of cal. So could be considered 'old' I still think of it as a new and fresh map mainly because out of all of the full seasons i have played it was in about 10%. If you started post Fios 20% and in s3 50% which would be most players now playing now. So it would feel old to them.

I guess I will put dm_caverns_r1 *old* or new on the other maps in the vote and we can discuss if you feel that map is in fact whatever I put down. If we feel a vote is needed we can vote on a certain map being new or old if need be.

I agree with ninoj on this.I for one never knew CAL cycled Caverns already for one full season, so by my definition I guess it is old... Caverns realistically is an older map but it's potential is still being exercised today strat wise, it'd be ridiculous to retire Caverns even if it is an "old" map. Also playing entirely new maps, I'm going along with it but I've played em all, you get what you wish for. I think most of the new maps are underdeveloped or too sloppy to provide serious play. After more and more scrims on Mileau I'm finding the camping and sloppiness of play revolving around the RPG area even more ridiculous and outlandish then Zeta/LV, but far less fun in it's ridiculousness.

Va|iums wrote:I think most of the new maps are underdeveloped or too sloppy to provide serious play.

I agree for the most part, but my vote for all new maps has nothing to do with maps made within the last year. It has to do with maps that have never been in any league lol. There are plenty of old maps that can be used that are just wasting away.

Va|iums wrote:Caverns_R1 and Mileau were not used for a full season and thus deserve a shot under the "new" map definitive umbrella.

Va|iums wrote:I agree with ninoj on this.I for one never knew CAL cycled Caverns already for one full season, so by my definition I guess it is old... Caverns realistically is an older map but it's potential is still being exercised today strat wise, it'd be ridiculous to retire Caverns even if it is an "old" map. Also playing entirely new maps, I'm going along with it but I've played em all, you get what you wish for. I think most of the new maps are underdeveloped or too sloppy to provide serious play. After more and more scrims on Mileau I'm finding the camping and sloppiness of play revolving around the RPG area even more ridiculous and outlandish then Zeta/LV, but far less fun in it's ridiculousness.

val i'm confused. is milieu sloppy, ridiculous and outlandish but still deserves a shot? not as argument just trying to understand what you're saying.
and also how can anyone consider caverns old?

[EYE] Valar wrote:

Va|iums wrote:Caverns_R1 and Mileau were not used for a full season and thus deserve a shot under the "new" map definitive umbrella.

Va|iums wrote:I agree with ninoj on this.I for one never knew CAL cycled Caverns already for one full season, so by my definition I guess it is old... Caverns realistically is an older map but it's potential is still being exercised today strat wise, it'd be ridiculous to retire Caverns even if it is an "old" map. Also playing entirely new maps, I'm going along with it but I've played em all, you get what you wish for. I think most of the new maps are underdeveloped or too sloppy to provide serious play. After more and more scrims on Mileau I'm finding the camping and sloppiness of play revolving around the RPG area even more ridiculous and outlandish then Zeta/LV, but far less fun in it's ridiculousness.

val i'm confused. is milieu sloppy, ridiculous and outlandish but still deserves a shot? not as argument just trying to understand what you're saying.
and also how can anyone consider caverns old?

Well, I think it deserves more of a shot because maybe the scrims I've been in Mileau are flukes. For our scrims they turn out to be someone going for the RPG, but camps in the water until it's safe but then everyone eventually just jumps in the water over and over again and it usually takes forever to get the kill in the water with the pistol anyway.... Also if you do actually get it up the spot you camp it in the area is very tight and provides for very predictable and untacticle kills unlike zeta and even LV... All that aside I'm trying to say MIL still deserves a shot because it still has alot potential and others may play it differently then we did.

stop arguing with people and add bahlk to the roster vals.

Ya I tried the threads locked to editing or posting so I PM'ed nino. Not arguing just telling Valar how we played the map in a very specific way and it has the potential to be good if played in other ways

hmm not sure about your scrims on mil but my teams scrims showed that the player in the water was easily killed from above with a nade, orb or xbow. In fact I feel its not even worth going in the water, as it usually results in death.

L2k wrote:hmm not sure about your scrims on mil but my teams scrims showed that the player in the water was easily killed from above with a nade, orb or xbow. In fact I feel its not even worth going in the water, as it usually results in death.

^ agree.
I've played maybe 1 scrim on milieu where the rpg was a factor. It's just way too dangerous to even bother trying to get it against any competent team.

Let's discuss every single god damn map in three different threads, then we'll hold a vote to decide if we want new or old maps, then we'll discuss the old maps versus the new maps, then we'll discuss rules, then we'll set up the schedule, then people will bitch about who's playing who and in what pool, then we'll have more discussion over the maps, then we'll discuss the rules again, then we'll play.

badinfluence wrote:Let's discuss every single god damn map in three different threads, then we'll hold a vote to decide if we want new or old maps, then we'll discuss the old maps versus the new maps, then we'll discuss rules, then we'll set up the schedule, then people will bitch about who's playing who and in what pool, then we'll have more discussion over the maps, then we'll discuss the rules again, then we'll play.

blah blah blah

theres many new maps worth playing plus it will bring a different level into the fun factor .

*sigh*

Not even sure why we bother to discuss and vote anyway. Everyone says they want to see new maps but what gets voted for every goddamed time? The same old maps every time.

No wonder people are getting tired of this game. It never fucking changes, there is never anything new to be excited about.

We have at least 20 new maps but will even ONE get tried? Nope sorry we can't do that because OMFG we might lose and it might be too much fun learning how to play something new that we haven't memorized every damn pixel of for a change.

make a rule - as admins and founders w/e - that for the league both new maps and old maps will be played. have ppl vote from a pool of 25 maps both old and new (CAL or not who the f cares), get the most votes and move on the concrete the league's rules.
just move on.

Paradox wrote:*sigh*

Not even sure why we bother to discuss and vote anyway. Everyone says they want to see new maps but what gets voted for every goddamed time? The same old maps every time.

No wonder people are getting tired of this game. It never fucking changes, there is never anything new to be excited about.

We have at least 20 new maps but will even ONE get tried? Nope sorry we can't do that because OMFG we might lose and it might be too much fun learning how to play something new that we haven't memorized every damn pixel of for a change.

So now you start seeing the difficulties in being the admin who makes final decisions on maps. Rhideon and Fearsome forced new maps down our throats, in which some became popular, some didn't. I lol'd when I saw that people overwhelmingly voted for ALL NEW maps here and in the actual map voting thread it looks like there will be only one new map.