DM2SP

New website launches with Mapping Competition:

DM2SP.COM

The objective of the site is to encourage, cajole and blackmail modders into converting DeathMatch maps for Half-Life 2 into simple Single Player maps. Hence the name DM2SP!

As well as launching the website a competition has been announced with current maximum prize fund of $140 dollars.

The competition starts today and last entries will be accepted 11:59PM GMT 31 July 2009

The winners will be announced on 16th August 2009.

Full details, including the exact prize structure, rules and judges can be found on the website:

DM2SP.COM

I think blackmail is a bad choice of word.

lol

not trying to disrespect but come now seriously; what would be the reason for anyone to port a HL2DM map over to SP?
how will it be played and for what purpose? - please give examples.
what gameplay can / will it hold? - please give examples.
do the producer/s of said competition understand there is absolutely no joy not only in playing a map designed for MP in SP but also vise versa?
nowhere in your post nor on your sire does it explain the idea behind this project. only the "How". but..."Why"?
again, if i'm missing anything please...explain.

what would be the reason for anyone to port a HL2DM map over to SP?
Because not everybody enjoys playing MP games. A lot of my readers never play MP games, and with so many DM maps out there and so few SP maps this competition is hoping to make more higher quality SP maps available. Dedicated SP players play all sorts of maps, not just the bigger mods, the ones with stories etc.

how will it be played and for what purpose? - please give examples.
It will be played like any normal SP map. See the HoloReality. It has a converted DM map and is the best one in the mod. The purpose is for enjoyment.

do the producer/s of said competition understand there is absolutely no joy not only in playing a map designed for MP in SP but also vise versa?
I beg to differ. The quality of conversion and choice of DM map is very important. Clearly not every DM is suitable for conversion but some are. The use of "Joy" is a subjective term and whilst you may not enjoy playing converted maps others may. The example above gave my lots of joy.

nowhere in your post nor on your sire does it explain the idea behind this project. only the "How". but..."Why"?
One problem with ths SP mapping community is most of the maps released are of low quality. The bigger and better mods take a long time to produce and release.

This competition is hoping to encourage mappers who wouldn't normally release SP maps to do just that. There are some great short, story-less SP maps available, but not many.

It is hoping to make available a large selection of maps that are at least equal to some of the maps released by the SP community.

And lastly, it is also hoping to draw a little more attention to SP mapping.

I suspect, and I admit I could be wrong, that you don't play many SP maps that get released, maybe the bigger mods but not the smaller ones. The problem for SP only players is the choice of maps available. Most of these don't have the technical quality that a lot of DM maps have. Whilst adding a few enemies and making small changes to the layout and design won't produce a masterpiece it may create something better than the drivel I have to constantly play.

Irrespective on your viewpoint of SP maps and players, from our point of view it's a potential goldmine of maps waiting to be played.

I mean no disrespect either but your reply is reminiscent of a pervailing negative attitude within the gaming community. I am not suggesting you have this attitude, you may just have a healthy secpticism, but instead of looking at the problems and negatives why not approach things with some optimisim. Just because you don't think it is worth it or like it, doesn't mean it won't work or it's a bad idea.

My thought process was simply: What's the worst that could happen if I run this project and competition? People laugh at me and say it's a terrible idea. Okay that's no problem, I rarely worry what other people think of me. AND what's the best that could happen? We get lots of entries and SP players have something good to play and a few mappers decide they will try their hand at making a proper SP map.

I have already admitted in other places that it *may* be a bad idea and may fail miseribly, but I have decided to stand up and put my own money up in the hope that it will work.

Everybody can find fault with ideas, the question is do you (You, as in the "community") want to always be negative or say, "okay, what can I do to make this better?".

How many readers do you have? As many as source forts mod? So your project never comes to the top.
There are a lot of players not playing mp map in cs:s, not in dm. I just saw js_coop and puzzle maps, but in two month I sick of it because of boring. You can try to make a lot of that kind of maps js_ or call it how you want, but.
What is this? Port hl2dm map - do you mean that dm_lostarena will be a singleplayer map? Am I right? This is ridiculous, guys who tried so hard to make theirs maps so MP with great atmosphere and you just take it all done and do what you want with it - fock it up. There is no respect. I can't agree with this idea.

I dont see many replies in this topic. You better make the coop maps like this http://singe.telefragged.com/hl2/maps/

his is ridiculous, guys who tried so hard to make theirs maps so MP with great atmosphere and you just take it all done and do what you want with it - fock it up. There is no respect.
Monarch, you haven't understood the idea. Mappers must recieve written permission from the original author if they want to convert a map. Although the idea was never really about converting somebody elses map, just your own. Nobody is usgeesting stealing or using anybody else's work.

How many readers do you have? As many as source forts mod? So your project never comes to the top.
I recieve approximately 1000 unique visitors a day to my site, probably a lot less than MP sites and mods, but that's not really relevant. SP is a lot less popular than MP.

Port hl2dm map - do you mean that dm_lostarena will be a singleplayer map? Am I right?
I don't know the lostareana map you mention, so I can't comment on it. As I have said not every DM map is suitable, so using certain maps as example is not very useful.

You better make the coop maps like this http://singe.telefragged.com/hl2/maps/
Thanks for the link, if I played Co-Op then I might make co-op maps but I don't I play SP.

I dont see many replies in this topic.
Maybe this website and community don't like the idea, which is fine, but hopefully others will.

Perhaps it's best if I don't respond to individual points. I am not trying to force anybody to like or support the idea. Just letting you know it existed.

i wasn't trying to be negative at all. i just see something that looks to me flawed and call it out. maybe in the hope of getting an clearer picture in the process.

what i meant was there is gameplay in SP and that is the storyline, functionality of NPCs and numerous orchestrated AI scripts. SP also usually has some sort of puzzle or "quest" you need to unlock.
MP is, again, not made for a single person but requires others (other people in this case) in order to be functional.
both game modes require their own unique population if you will. and...both follow a unique functionality.
so, if i'm playing the Anti Citizen Chapter in HL2 by myself i'm not alone. i'm actually always interacting with someone/something. be it, combines, rebels, zombies...etc.
if now, i'm playing a HL2DM map in SP mode. what am i doing there exactly? the NPC won't spring out of thin air (and i mean this humorously), no puzzle is there to solve, there's clearly no storyline in it and i'm basically going to wonder around the map...shooting...the walls and trees? again, not mocking but - this is the picture i have in mind lacking a solid example of a gameplay.

hope my point is made clearer this time.

I didn't respond to this when I saw it because I wanted to think about the idea first and see what other people's reaction was.

I play both single and multiplayer games. At the outset, my reaction is "how would this work" I don't see many (if any) MP maps being very applicable.

MP maps are by neccessity, circular in that they are meant to promote the meeting of multiple ramdomly moving players. They are generally much smaller than SP maps or levels.

SP maps and levels are generally linear and much much larger There is an objective with a basic route you need to follow and along the way there are things to solve or NPCs popping out at you to fight or work with to get to the final obective.

I have played 1000s of MP maps. Take a commonly known map such as dm_lockdown. I don't see how wandering around that map shooting progrmmed and predictable zombies or other NPCs is going to hold anyones interest for very long. Once you know where the zombies spawn it will get pretty meh.

The only maps I have seen that come close to what you are describing are some made by Redclaw. Some of them have a riddle/puzzle to solve that you need to go around to diffrenent parts of the map to get all the pieces of the riddle.

Otherwise, in order to really get a good SP experience would be to string several MP together into a level with objectives/puzzles in each that you need to accomplish before moving on to the net sub-map. IE I have to unlock something in lockdown before I get transported into overwatch.

I am just learning map making myself so I am not sure exactly, but it would seem that doing something like this would require a bit more programming knowledge than I and many of us amateur mappers have. The type of objectives that could be placed in a map seem to be pretty limited because Hammer wasn't meant to handle functional game programming and code.

lol LD may not be the best example of your point Paradox. 2004?

It states somewhere in the rules that the sp 'must resemble' the already released DM map. So a few well placed walls here and there will help convert a circuitous layout in to something more linear. That's what I'm reading into it anyway.

That said I much prefer MP play to SP, so I don't know how many good ideas I could possibly come up with for this..

Lockdown is a SP conversion It is about a fifth of the entire SP map, if that. One boss two puzzles

Yes its not the best example, I was only trying to think of a map that he might know of. Yes I know it was once a SP map in the game, as I did play it several times. My point stands pretty much no matter what MP map you throw up there. The point was: MP maps are small and circular in style to promote interaction of multiple players in it. It will get pretty predictable and boring wandering around a circular map with NPCs spawning in the same place every time you pass through the area(s) of the map. It would get old after about 5-10 minutes if that.

MP and SP maps are designed differently because they are meant for a different experience and unless you find a way to string several MP maps in a somewhat linear fashion with objectives, NPCs to fight/cooperate with. It wont work that well. The closest I have seen to what he might be thinking of is some maps made by Redclaw that have riddles in them for you to solve. Also Coop maps are basically MP versions that simulate a SP experience (linear, objectives and obstacles) except you can play them with multiple people.

Here is Dm Lockdown convert to SP:
http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=71378

It's the first entry.

As I said in a previous post I am not going to answer every point raised or continue to defend my position.

I would like to add though that the kind of entries I am hoping for is clearly not going to be the best SP maps ever released, but if you look through the 1,000 maps listed on my site, a lot of them are terrible, and it's hard to imagine that the conversions could be worse.

As an SP fan, I play everything I find and so do quite a few of my readers. If we get a few good maps out of this then I have accomplished something.

With regard to the above conversion, I quite enjoyed and I urge you to play it before critising the concept.

Sorry, I forgot to add that I know Lockdown was orignially converted from the SP campaign but in this case it's very differnt from the original SP version.

Im on of those ppl who feels like they are wasting their time playing single player unless its an actuall official release that has had time spent on it.
I just reckon u should finish the single player then move right onto mp, theres more to do.

Phillip, for the record, I wasnt knocking the idea, not just wondering and speculating out loud (so to speak) how it would work. I will check it out when I have a chance.

I enjoy single player and play them when a new game the peaks my interest comes out. However, I like a SP game that has some substance to it. A good story, some obstacles along the way and an eventual end. If its only gona be for 15 minutes, frankly to me its not even worth the time to download and install. My biggest disappointment with HL2 EP1 and Lost Coast was that they were too short. You just really get into it and its over. I also do enjoy multiplayer and the interaction it has very much and I think I would miss that aspect so I dont think I could be exclusively a SP player (I know thats not what youre expecting). They each provide a different experience and a different type of entertainment.

@ Pernicious,
I respect your opinion I don't happen to agree with it and I would certainly recommend you try some of the best SP mods, you will be surprised. Some last over 10 hours. I play games for different reasons than you and probably most people that visit this site and forum.

@Paradox,
I am not on a crusade to convince the world SP is better than MP, just trying to get as many SP maps to play as possible. What I mean is that I don't have any expectations about your gameplay choice.

I have always admitted that MPoffers something that SP doesn't and have never suggested one was better than the other (Not that you suggested I have). I just happen to enjoy SP more and do my best to find as many maps as possible.

I completely agree about Lost Coast and Ep1 but I'd rather have a short SP than no SP.

If you don't enjoy short mods I doubt you'll enjoy 95% of SP maps and mods especially the ones that are likely to be converted from DM.

I listed the map above because I think it will surprise people how it has been converted. I hope you enjoy it though.

It's a fun idea, and I wish you the best of luck. Feel free to promote it here as much as you wish. You are also welcome to link to this site on your valve sites webpage if you wish.

@Walking Target,
Thank you for your wishes. This site is already listed on ValveCommunity.Net

Walking Target wrote:It's a fun idea, and I wish you the best of luck. Feel free to promote it here as much as you wish. You are also welcome to link to this site on your valve sites webpage if you wish.

I love the idea.

From a dm player/mappers POV i would love to see some of my favourite dm maps converted to playable sp maps, as a dm mapper i spend a lot of time trying to create a believable environment only for it to be ignored for the more pressing objectives , it might be fun to focus a little more on the location and details of an environment.
I will consider if any of my maps might be convertible to sp and maybe have a go myself, could be fun.

Any resources you could suggest for starting out in the sp side of things Philip?

@[22g]Pig Popper,

There are no single player designresources I know of. However, http://www.interlopers.net/ and http://twhl.co.za/ have plenty of mappers who have lots of experience in SP mapping.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

well that little antlion map i player way back was fun, just tons of antlion coming at you in constant waves. Something like this would work for most mp maps. Instead of moving linear. pres a button and try to hold a point as massive amounts of enemies come at you

pres a button and try to hold a point as massive amounts of enemies come at you

sounds familiar

[EYE] Valar wrote:

pres a button and try to hold a point as massive amounts of enemies come at you

sounds familiar

ya, those are the funnest parts in the hl2sp makes it a challenge with minimal work

ninojman wrote:

[EYE] Valar wrote:

pres a button and try to hold a point as massive amounts of enemies come at you

sounds familiar

ya, those are the funnest parts in the hl2sp makes it a challenge with minimal work

I think he is referring to L4D lol.

Sacrifist wrote: I think he is referring to L4D lol.

hihihi