Orange Box Engine News

Epoch

2008-01-18 00:27:47

I recently found some information regarding games being moved to the OB engine. An update was released for Gmod yesterday which moved it to the OB enigine. Since I haven't heard anything about other games being moved yet it would seem that Gmod is the ginny (lol spelling) pig. Hopefully hl2dm is soon to follow, I'm interested to see what it will change/improve if anything at all.
Article here: http://www.steamfriends.com/steam/p2_articleid/1155

This move to a new engine seems pretty important so I thought I'd let people know they moved the first game. At least to my knowledge.

Anyone know anymore about this? Any other games been moved? Possible effects of the move?

Fearsome*

2008-01-19 09:30:45

Maybe they will finally stop using us as the guinea pigs?

Zman42

2008-01-19 10:42:30

Fearsome* wrote:Maybe they will finally stop using us as the guinea pigs?
pfffft. unlikely. :(

Paradox

2008-01-19 12:05:12

lol I posted this in the other thread but ill ask it here as well.

I wonder what will happen with all of our custom maps when DM gets moved to the new engine? Will they still work? May be a stupid question but its beyond me what if any effect there might be. If there are problems its gona make a huge mess and we could lose a lot of really good maps....


The other problem I see is that they update OB engine now like every 2-3 days. Sometimes twice a day if they really bork something. Its constantly messing with my TF2 pub mani/metamod Source config. Have to reload the gamefile.txt every damn time and restart the server.

Epoch

2008-01-19 20:52:54

Didn't realise this was in the news thread. This can be deleted.

Walking Target

2008-01-19 21:53:48

Epoch wrote:Didn't realise this was in the news thread. This can be deleted.
No it can stay, this is a different article. I'll just move it there.

Mario 64 Master

2008-01-19 23:31:02

holymoly wrote:It would help this game hold over until hl3dm comes out in two years.
what?

Zman42

2008-01-20 00:43:27

Mario 64 Master wrote:
holymoly wrote:It would help this game hold over until hl3dm comes out in two years.
what?

MeekMeekle

2008-01-20 01:22:08

lol ! i doubt hl3dm will come out in 2 years. 4 to 5 years sounds more realistic to me.

[EYE] Valar

2008-01-20 02:35:19

my personal thoughts...
it is likely that all valves original textures and models will be already updated (converted) for OB however any custom models, textures will need to be re-done on our side. This is just an assumption however likely it seems to me it may be different on the day.
also cubemaps as well as bumps and specular layers may have issuesbut thats like saying the same thing twice: all materials needs to be updated to OB whether it be us or valves side. In a test I made Ive extracted some ep2 and portal textures and tried running them in (ep1) current DM engine they all looked screwy and specular was totally off. I think old (even pre ep1) DM maps will be able to run on OB but (as we know) not vise versa.

As for the scepticism regarding whether DM will be updated to OB or not read http://www.hl2dm-university.com/forum/p ... .php?t=770

Epoch

2008-01-20 20:08:51

Mario 64 Master wrote:
holymoly wrote:It would help this game hold over until hl3dm comes out in two years.
what?
What!? is right! Is Valve actually planning on making a hl3dm, or is that just speculation? If it is true that'll be the best news in online gaming I've heard since it was realeased that Blizzard were making Starcraft 2! Oh please gaming gods let it be true!

nade maeggs

2008-01-21 00:27:31

how could there be a info about hl3dm if there is nothing about hl3 lol maybe a hl2dm2 :o :shock: :roll:

provost

2008-01-21 08:38:02

or a hl2dm forever ;)

Paradox

2008-01-21 13:24:42

I dont give a crap what you call it...if it happens, Ill be doing backflips in my computer chair!!!

Yes may the Gaming Gods smile down upon us and bless us one and all....

provost

2008-01-21 16:36:26

Valve:

" Yes, the TF (Orange Box) engine is not compatible with the one that is
presently used for CSS, DoDS, and HL2MP. That is why we are segregating
it into the the 'orangebox' directory under the root. In the coming
months the other games will be moved to the Orange Box engine and their
binaries will move under the 'orangebox' directory once this move is
done. The content does not need to move to the 'orangebox' when the
binaries for the games move and we hope that this represents some value
for server admins since you will not need to download redundant content
files into two different directory structures in order to support two
different engine versions.

Our hope is that this new directory structure will help avoid
disruptions to existing dedicated servers for other mods and products
when we make significant changes to the Source engine like the ones
needed for TF and the other Orange Box games. We also hope that it makes
updating your servers more convenient and less bandwidth intensive as we
update our games for newer engine versions.

I hope this has made it more clear, but if not please let me know."

" The most significant fact here is that there have been interface changes
so it is probable that many server plug-ins that work with CSS, DoD, and
HL2MP will not work with the Orange Box engine. Once the beta is out the
door and the initial fires are put out I will make the specific
interface changes available on http://developer.valvesoftware.com so
that when the new SDK comes out the mod/plugin community can quickly
make Orange Box-compatible server plugins."

"The issue here is the location of the game binaries in relation to the
/bin directory that contains the *correct* engine binaries. Previous to
this new directory structure the assumption was that only one version of
the engine could exist under a single installation. So the location of
the engine binaries for all games was /bin. If you installed TF at /tf
on a server that also hosts Counter-Strike Source at /cstrike then
cstrike would no longer run due to the fact that the /bin directory
would now have Orange Box engine binaries.

So the 'orangebox' directory acts as a new root directory that has its
own location for the new engine binaries and the new games that use
those binaries. Meanwhile any games installed in the parent directory
can still run against the old engine.

For those of you that don't have more than one game installed on your
dedicated server this isn't as valuable, but our goal was to make it
possible to support servers that host multiple Source games that utilize
multiple versions of the engine."

"Right now the only game that will use the Orange Box engine is TF2. For
now the other games will stay in their usual locations, but they will be
moved to the new engine in the coming weeks and at that point their
binaries will reside under the 'orangebox' directory.

Plugins that work for the current engine version probably won't work for
the new engine version but I will be sharing the new interfaces with the
mod community ASAP so that they can develop new ones. The interfaces are
different, but we have not eliminated functionality so rewriting the
plug-ins should not be a monuental task."

The Steambans plugins will not work on TF2 at this time. Until Valve releases the updated SDK, there is nothing I can do about this.

-Mike

source: http://www.steambans.com

graffitiknockout

2008-01-21 20:35:08

I love how they call it HL2MP @_@

s0iz

2008-01-22 22:11:13

graffitiknockout wrote:I love how they call it HL2MP @_@
There are 2 engine's structures, HL2 and HL2MP, HL2DM is just a Deathmatch mod based on HL2MP, HL2CTF is a Capture The Flag mod based on HL2MP; etc.

You see? ;)

Well, I wish HL2DM gets updated so we can run it at 64bits with Multi-Core support plus Hi-Res textures (if there is an option to add them -hope so-)

Also, this would fix many things, but surely bring a whole new list of things to fix heh :/

nade maeggs

2008-01-22 23:33:29

Yeah s0iz :roll: and i dont wonder if it takes so long to fix something if only that Mike is working on it :lol:

Keeper

2008-01-23 16:15:46

It's not just Mike. He's one of two guys who regularly participates in the mailing list from the coding side.

Seems like the SDK code might be released today:
Mike Durand wrote:Hi All-

I'm just testing a release candidate now. If there aren't any showstoppers then we will have a public beta starting on 1/23. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for your patience.

-Mike
What does this matter to us? Well, hl2/hl2dm is closely based off of the SDK code, then HL2MP will probably be close behind.

[EYE] Valar

2008-01-23 17:53:16

vcool. its been long time coming.

[EYE] Valar

2008-01-24 22:54:14

Keeper wrote:It's not just Mike. He's one of two guys who regularly participates in the mailing list from the coding side.

Seems like the SDK code might be released today:
Mike Durand wrote:Hi All-

I'm just testing a release candidate now. If there aren't any showstoppers then we will have a public beta starting on 1/23. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for your patience.

-Mike
eh...not seen anything new till now..
so, right now we have two versions of SDK. one is ep2 and one is ep1. i'm assuming that one the above mentioned update kicks in we should be able to use both engines in one version of SDK?

correct me if i'm wrong.


What does this matter to us? Well, hl2/hl2dm is closely based off of the SDK code, then HL2MP will probably be close behind.

Briggs

2008-02-07 20:14:03

holymoly wrote: Also, the Orange Box Engine seems ill-suited to bunnyhopping. You couldn't do it in ep2. If Valve borks the bunnyhop, this game will die. Every strong player left only plays this game for two reasons: the gravity gun and the bunnyhopping. .
There is a way, you can actualy bhop faster then in half-life 2 single player, you just need to bhop backwords and you can reach speeds of over 3000 ups, same goes with portals, I love doing puzles without portals using backwords bhop hehe,

anyway just imagion that everyone had to bhop backwords in hte new hl2dm...
that would make things...interesting. :?

if they "fix" bhop in the new hl2dm OB I will just play pro mod, dont want to feel like im playing CSS in hl2dm, or I will just start playing hldm AG mod.

0nti

2008-02-07 20:17:35

IMO, the update won't affect bhop....but meh. Just my opinion ;)

provost

2008-02-07 20:38:51

0nti wrote:IMO, the update won't affect bhop....but meh. Just my opinion ;)
If it does, lets start Duck Hunt University, who's up?
Image

Briggs

2008-02-07 20:39:45

0nti wrote:IMO, the update won't affect bhop....but meh. Just my opinion ;)
I hope you are right, 8)

Briggs

2008-02-07 20:41:21

If it does, lets start Duck Hunt University, who's up?
Image[/quote]


IM IN!!!! :shock: :twisted: that game we my fist shooter. hehe

0nti

2008-02-07 20:59:53

lmao ! XD

Jelly Fox

2008-02-07 22:21:52

Image

sorry for the spam....

back to the topic....

Epoch

2008-02-07 22:30:10

I think I just found the tool I've been looking for to clear that piece of land behind the house lol.

provost

2008-02-07 23:04:41

Well they said ''will change in a few weeks'' and nothing for hl2dm, ill try checking / asking players from other games such as DOD to try and learn more about it.

/ time2wast3.exe

The Resident

2008-02-11 03:21:56

I hope TOB engine rollout doesn't happen until after CAL S4 ends. All of the OB engine games (ep2, portal, tf2) crash on my teammate after a few minutes. It's really very strange - legacy source games work fine though. :?

Epoch

2008-03-16 22:46:02

Bump. Anyone heard anything definative?

keefy

2008-03-28 04:35:15

Duck hunt is ace i was so good aat it ii disnt need to look directly at the screen :shock:

Briggs

2008-04-05 00:51:20

Epoch wrote:Bump. Anyone heard anything definative?

Keeper

2008-04-06 00:47:28

No, but I've seen :D .....

Image

Some of the ammo items look updated. As you can see, the old maps seem to work as well :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Neolinkster

2008-04-06 02:45:02

Keeper wrote:No, but I've seen :D .....

Image

Some of the ammo items look updated. As you can see, the old maps seem to work as well :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
thanks for the heads up im gonna go find the model and textures now to keep it the good way cuz those things look so gay IMO

Keeper

2008-04-06 02:48:53

Well, sv_pure would kick you in a heartbeat :D

Neolinkster

2008-04-06 02:52:04

then i'll know which servers look the gayest

MeekMeekle

2008-04-06 03:07:06

thanks for posting the picture keeper. it's too bad they are not red. other then that they look cool.

thatguy

2008-04-06 03:18:07

they dont look bad really they are fine yes it would be betetr is they were red though but now that i have seen that im really waiting on the update

0nti

2008-04-06 17:05:33

sexy modification :P
Any news keeper on all this OB update?

Epoch

2008-04-06 18:54:02

huh thats really weird

I must not have recieved the update because my game was on all day, because I did not see that while i was in game lol. I definitely would have noticed...they look like the guy who made the skin tried way too hard to make it look cool. I liked it the old way since its higher visibility being all red instead of lots of black.

Keeper

2008-04-06 19:52:43

It's not out yet. I don't know when it will be out. I'm hoping soon. Or either for some kind of word soon.

But they are working on it.

Epoch

2008-04-06 20:07:20

ahha it all makes sense now lol thanks keep.

ninjins

2008-04-29 20:57:49

that was an actual screenshot out of the OB engine for hl2dm?

WTF?

poconut

2008-04-29 21:11:34

fuck. my internet won't let me see the picture. Can someone help me out and email it [email protected] or simply describe it?

[EYE] Valar

2008-04-30 00:12:22

i too don't see no image? can you attach it?

CarteL | NebuLa

2008-04-30 00:14:17

poconut wrote:fuck. my internet won't let me see the picture. Can someone help me out and email it [email protected] or simply describe it?
Basically the orbs have a kind of black casing around them.

I really hope Hl2dm doesn't go to the orange box, this game will suck so bad without bunny hopping, who knows maybe valve will do it to try to bring new players to the game.

Keeper

2008-04-30 00:42:30

Ok, here's that pic. I've started to update my plugin this week, so I may have more to come.

It is going to the orange box. And bhopping will still be in in some form. It might take some adjustments, but I doubt they remove it.
Attachments
newammo.jpg
newammo.jpg (87.52 KiB) Viewed 699 times

poconut

2008-04-30 01:06:20

Thanks to michael hooper :D

The new cases look...different :? I'm hoping that the switch will just make the game more stable, without making too many changes like removing bunnyhopping.

Jelly Fox

2008-04-30 01:14:06

How on earth are 3 orbs that size going to fit in the tiny AR2...erm.... :?

If they take out BHop I'll just move to playing Pro only...no major loss 8)
poconut wrote:Thanks to michael hooper :D
No problem :mrgreen:

0nti

2008-04-30 08:50:31

How on earth are 3 orbs that size going to fit in the tiny AR2...erm.... :?
hahah yeah ar2 seems really small on that pic D:

thatguy

2008-05-01 00:29:59

Jelly Fox wrote:How on earth are 3 orbs that size going to fit in the tiny AR2...erm.... :?
They just do ok!

[EYE] Valar

2008-05-01 00:54:10

where exactly has it been even mentioned by VALVe that bhopping is in danger?
does anyone have a link that backs this up?

Keeper

2008-05-01 05:16:18

It's all speculation at this point. Its based on the lack of the movement in other orange box games.

I should run this and see how movement is on a keyboard that supports it.

[EYE] Valar

2008-05-01 05:49:29

run what... you beta-testing DM port to OB for valve? sry if im missing something im just nto sure where that pic came from. .

0nti

2008-05-01 15:41:05

It's all speculation at this point. Its based on the lack of the movement in other orange box games.
well, you can get 4000 speed bhops in just ...5 hops I think. Which is even way faster than quake games speed D:
Only difference is you gotta bhop backwards lmao >.<
Briggs can prove it :P

Zman42

2008-05-01 18:02:49

0nti wrote: well, you can get 4000 speed bhops in just ...5 hops I think.
explain?

Ghost Dog_TSGK

2008-05-01 18:52:48

I think onti is referring to episode 2 movement only.

[EYE] Valar

2008-05-01 20:15:14

hold on a sec are you guys trying to bhop in a SP and drawing conclusions regarding MP?

Keeper

2008-05-01 22:13:48

Not really, from what I understand, you can bhop in TF2, but only backwards. Maybe I've been mis-informed on this. Since I don't really do it forwards, i'm not going to try to do it backwards :sketchy:

To answer the other question, I have taken the HL2MP orange box sdk and compiled it to see what it feels/looks like. There are lots of bugs in the SDK and other things that make no sense. I have a feeling they are going way past the sdk for the actual game.

I pray they aren't going to upgrade all the games at once. Their snafus with TF2 should show them to release the games in a controlled manner.

st00pidity

2008-05-02 07:12:13

it may have been changed but in the beta i watched guys bhop at demoman speed without being backwards.

0nti

2008-05-02 08:58:30

can't really explain much Z, cause I haven't done it myself. There are some videos on youtube I believe. You can ask briggs for a demo too, I think he understands pretty much how it works.
And yeah ghost, I was talking about ep2 =P.

Jelly Fox

2008-05-02 15:49:31

st00pidity wrote:it may have been changed but in the beta i watched guys bhop at demoman speed without being backwards.
yeah, like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFjVNFnmmzk

[EYE] Valar

2008-05-02 16:19:17

don't rely on what you see on SP or other games to have any hold on DM.
DM is DM
try tossing a nade and switching to a gGun in HL2 SP.... :wink:

Keeper

2008-05-03 15:21:41

I have heard that they are still working on this conversion. The date still isn't known, but some of the TF2 updates are related.

No word on exactly what changes are in store, but I'd say we're still months out.

Briggs

2008-05-09 23:26:29

-_-

Keeper

2008-05-23 16:26:35

Ok, this should give you a bit of an idea on what they might be planning.

It has begun.



Just not for us :(

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s ... p?t=685289

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke1MluNfLH4

ninojman

2008-05-23 17:23:32

I am just gonna say this everytime i'm right about the orange box and what valve is doing

I TOLD YOU SO

but please continue to doubt me and cry about the orange box.


on another note
we can expect this
- added Steamworks features, including achievements and player avatars
- added Nemesis and Revenge
- added Freeze Cam

maybe a custom map added to stock valve map list

Also some Fixes that the community bitches about see ex here
- changed the algorithm for bullet spread to be more like the original Day of Defeat
- reduced Garand recoil

Both have been issues in the dods community since day one which i got dods on day 14

told you so part (putting it in writing this time)
But don't think it will happen within a year, think summer/fall '09
next they will go back to TF2 then css will get a similar update <- might be in reverse but i doubt it.

Keeper

2008-05-23 17:33:29

The person who wrote the original message that I got said it looked like CS:S had the same thing coming. Maybe that's what the delay is between the announcement and the actual beta being released?

I haven't checked their forums .. but yeah, it will probably be a while before we see anything definite for HL2DM.

ninojman

2008-05-23 17:43:03

Keeper wrote:The person who wrote the original message that I got said it looked like CS:S had the same thing coming. Maybe that's what the delay is?

I haven't checked their forums .. but yeah, it will probably be a while before we see anything definite for HL2DM.

They said that the orange box update would add
- added Steamworks features, including achievements and player avatars
- added Nemesis and Revenge
- added Freeze Cam
to css/dods/hl2dm and bug fixes

They said this few weeks after tf2 came out. They never said anything about completely changing the game like some think
They did change plains and set themselves back on these ob updates by coming up with the new weapons in tf2 which will likely get work on in between these betas for dods/css/hl2dm

[EYE] Valar

2008-05-23 17:49:09

ninojman wrote:
Keeper wrote:The person who wrote the original message that I got said it looked like CS:S had the same thing coming. Maybe that's what the delay is?

I haven't checked their forums .. but yeah, it will probably be a while before we see anything definite for HL2DM.

They said that the orange box update would add
- added Steamworks features, including achievements and player avatars
- added Nemesis and Revenge
- added Freeze Cam
to css/dods/hl2dm and bug fixes

They said this few weeks after tf2 came out. They never said anything about completely changing the game like some think
They did change plains and set themselves back on these ob updates by coming up with the new weapons in tf2 which will likely get work on in between these betas for dods/css/hl2dm
good. yet another proof of all that changin and dumpin DM are all tales.

Keeper

2008-05-23 18:07:51

Well, I have a feeling they will be doing more with HL2DM than just upgrading it. It might explain why there isn't a beta out for it yet. I have confirmed that there are betas for CS:S
CS:S Beta
CS:S Beta
CSS BETA.JPG (23.99 KiB) Viewed 800 times
and DOD:S,
DOD:S Beta
DOD:S Beta
DOD BETA.JPG (29.33 KiB) Viewed 799 times
but no HL2MP as of yet :(.

From my conversations with a few people at valve, it seems that the transformation for HL2DM is more complicated than those for the other two.

We shall see ...

Paradox

2008-05-23 19:46:31

Well lets hope its because they are trying to keep the movement as consistent as possible between the two engines.

*Fingers Crossed*

[EYE] Valar

2008-05-23 20:36:08

Paradox wrote:Well lets hope its because they are trying to keep the movement as consistent as possible between the two engines.

*Fingers Crossed*
again, guys - the "the movement" change is a myth. rumor. made up by players not valve. nothing intentional is "planned" by valve to effect the movement of dm.

Walking Target

2008-05-23 21:15:46

Yeah, I keep telling people it will happen but they just refuse to believe me. One day people will learn to trust in the magic combine_ball, but until that day they will continue to doubt. :wink:

Paradox

2008-05-23 23:51:46

[EYE] Valar wrote:
Paradox wrote:Well lets hope its because they are trying to keep the movement as consistent as possible between the two engines.

*Fingers Crossed*
again, guys - the "the movement" change is a myth. rumor. made up by players not valve. nothing intentional is "planned" by valve to effect the movement of dm.

I am not saying that they want to deliberatly change it from what it is....but what if the new engine just hampers it just on its own, unintentionally because it wasnt meant for DM, it was meant for TF2 that runs on 800 grav. MAYBE they are trying to tweek it so that the movement stays in DM and doesnt get messed up.

[EYE] Valar

2008-05-24 00:57:57

Paradox wrote:
[EYE] Valar wrote:
Paradox wrote:Well lets hope its because they are trying to keep the movement as consistent as possible between the two engines.

*Fingers Crossed*
again, guys - the "the movement" change is a myth. rumor. made up by players not valve. nothing intentional is "planned" by valve to effect the movement of dm.

I am not saying that they want to deliberatly change it from what it is....but what if the new engine just hampers it just on its own, unintentionally because it wasnt meant for DM, it was meant for TF2 that runs on 800 grav. MAYBE they are trying to tweek it so that the movement stays in DM and doesnt get messed up.
yes that's more like it.
basically in a compatibility update this is exactly what you do. it takes about two seconds to lay the game algorithms on the new engine code then forever to make the two work as a one comprehensive (and as much as pos - bug free) for the end user = gamer.

MeekMeekle

2008-05-24 05:54:20

thank you for posting these screenshots keeper! and keeping us up to date! :D

0nti

2008-05-24 07:45:04

wow where was I all these time...hadn't checked this thread for some time. Nice info guys, keep us updated :D !