phys_swap vs. use_weapon physcannon

are there any differences between the two? advantages or disadvantages to either one?

Pressing phys_swap while holding the gravity gun switches back to your previous weapon.

Using previnv is easier to quick-boost orbs with. It also mutes gunshots.

I'm not sure about using weapon_physcannon, but it's probably the same as previnv.

I prefer physcannon, so you don't accidentally switch back to your prev weapon when you really need your grav gun.

I prefer physcannon, so you don't accidentally switch back to your prev weapon when you really need your grav gun.

yup =)

I prefer physcannon, so you don't accidentally switch back to your prev weapon when you really need your grav gun.

yup =)

x2

I often wondered if there was any difference in ability or speed between the 3 would be a good thing to test out. I notice some people just seem to be able to make a fast ball go faster then other which I cannot understand other then something like this explaining it. Or its purely in my head.

i always thought it was a rate thing or net prob that made orbs appear faster

I figured the difference in orb speed was due to difference in timing of the push after you've switched to grav gun. That is, how close to the grav gun the orb is when you manage to push it.

I figured the difference in orb speed was due to difference in timing of the push after you've switched to grav gun. That is, how close to the grav gun the orb is when you manage to push it.

well there's only two speeds... slow and fast... when you see an orb that comes out "faster", the speed doesn't change, it just left your gravity gun sooner because your timing was better..

i always thought it was a rate thing or net prob that made orbs appear faster

The only thing is I have set rates, and when on the same server at the same time some players will seem to just be able to get one going faster then others. I know both are fast balls cause there is a huge difference between the fast and slow balls. But there are some players out there where I just find their balls are easier to catch and easier to track and see, where as others seem to just cruise faster then the average fast baller. And the difference can be seen when people just shoot them strait at you some guys seem to be able to sneak it through your grav fun better then others even on strait shots with no bounces and long distances.

Hop in a big open map like spookface and see if you can get the orb to go different distances. Orbs are on a timer so if they only go 2 speeds, there will be two fixed distances they can reach.

Hop in a big open map like spookface and see if you can get the orb to go different distances. Orbs are on a timer so if they only go 2 speeds, there will be two fixed distances they can reach.

i always just use the straight walls in LD in the bathroom, since it dies right in front of your face after a bounce or two

Yes there are faster fastballs. You need a good timing when you kick it away.
Try to vary that timing. Make it a bit later then shortest possible and dont just spam the mousebutton.

Yes there are faster fastballs. You need a good timing when you kick it away.
Try to vary that timing. Make it a bit later then shortest possible and dont just spam the mousebutton.

ahhhh...cheers for the tip. I just hold my Pri Fire and keep tapping my GGgun key.

Now when I think about it, it seems there could possibly be an influence from server tick rate since I assume the orb leaving the ar2 and the push from the grav gun have to be at least one tick apart, possibly 2 if the switch to grav gun has to occupy its own tick. Though this would only work if actual time influences orb speed rather than number of ticks.
If this is the case I can see how low client fps also could be a limiting factor, potentially even more so if you have really bad frame rates.

I dunno exactly how it works, but I'm sure some of you know of the trick where you fire an orb into the ground so you can push it on the return (requires good timing and a few tries). If you get it right the orb loses its speed almost entirely and either hovers in the air in front of you or will travel away slowly. The results are seldom exactly the same, suggesting this is not an on off thing, but that orb speed is quite variable.

well yes.. ok there's 3 speeds... regular, fast, and slow... slow comes when you push the orb as it's coming back to you... easiest to perform when you fire it off of a straight wall.... the same technique can be applied to fast.. wait for the ball to bounce off the wall behind you and go the same direction you're looking and repell it again.. it doesn't increase speed.. it just goes the same "fast" speed as any other time you repell it... and that's all you're doing when you fire it out of the ar2 and hitting it with the gravity gun... so again.. 3 speeds, slow, regular, fast... anything else is probably just in your head..

Theres only one orb speed above the standard firing speed from the ar2 (slowball), which is double speed (fastball). We tested this to conclusion with timers awhile back. There are plenty of slower than standard speeds, usually caused by deflecting an orb with ggun primary fire, or by an orb escaping its generator.

Even back when you could scroll an orb 100 times before it got out of range, it still only moved twice as fast as a standard from-the-gun orb.

no its not... really.. why the hell are you not able to react on a fast ball from the other side of a kbh box because its too damn fast??
Not bouncing from any walls just a direct shot... you can perform better ones then the usual fastball thats for sure.
The speed of a fastball does vary depending on which time you give it untill you push it away.

I suspect those ones are the result of slight timing differences when playing online, kind of like when you get shot and the game drags you back to die in a different location, or you hear your orb fire, but find yourself dead and no orb has been released. The orb is on you and has killed you so you cant react and it appears to come so damn fast as the timeline catches your death up.

I would test/prove it again but I'm too lazy.

Try the distance test as I mentioned earlier. Orbs are on a timer so in theory the faster they travel the further they go. If you can make a fast orb travel different distances you will prove it.

Last time I checked I could only get it to go two distances iirc.

iam too lazy too :roll: will check it when i got some time

Maybe what differs is only how quickly you can get it pushed away. Those that appear faster might just be pushed slightly earlier...?

no its not... really.. why the hell are you not able to react on a fast ball from the other side of a kbh box because its too damn fast??
Not bouncing from any walls just a direct shot... you can perform better ones then the usual fastball thats for sure.
The speed of a fastball does vary depending on which time you give it untill you push it away.

Lol, when I read your first post, I was like this guy must play killboxes... Sorry to burst your bubble dude, there is only one speed above normal... fast. No variations otherwise. The issue you bring up about people not being able to catch it because it's too fast.. just bad timing, nothing more. The bounces you bring up... it's all in your head, it just looks faster than fast, cause it's fuckin fasT!!!! There is such a small timing window for firing fastballs, anywhere in the strip will give you the same result. Although! WT, your test is 'slightly' off. If you did test the way you mentioned, there would be about a foot or two gap in between some of the fastballs. The ball expiration timer starts the second you hit the ball. When firing a fast orb, you can fire one where the ball is 'basically' behind the discharge on the ggun itself, and you can also fastball about 2 feet ahead of yourself, so there could be a minor gap. (Again, if only one person does this test, they've most likely been fast balling for so long, all of their tests may come up exactly the same, cause they have good timing) But in general, the tests would come up very close to each other and prove that people in killboxes just see this game a hair differently... (Lay off the crack, son!)

If its the same speed why would ppl write scripts for fastballs?? And i dont talk about noobs i talk about experienced players who dont have any problems doin normal fastballs...

anyone writing or using a script for fastballs should seek help.

If its the same speed why would ppl write scripts for fastballs?? And i dont talk about noobs i talk about experienced players who dont have any problems doin normal fastballs...

D: !

anyone writing or using a script for fastballs should seek help.

QFT....using fast ball scripts sounds SO lame....

A lot of valid points here.
To me I too also see 2 speeds of fast and I'm not a killbox player.
I see my own orbs go at 2 speeds of fast and in my head it comes down to timing the punch. As Dingle said there is such a small window of timing its gotta come down to a milliseconds difference, between when the orb leaves the gun and when it gets punched. The fastest speed I see only happens when I have really mashed the keyboard hard and fast. Most the time I see the (slower) fast speed, and my method is by using "use_weapon_physcannon" for my grav gun bind.

Back before the sv_allow_wait_command 0, I felt like most of the people who were very consistent with fast balls (not everyone, but I bet a lot) were likely using a small script that was very easy to write. Once the wait command came out, I saw all kinds of people having trouble fastballing becuz they had been doing it the easy way. Now it seems that there is more variance in the way people are doing it with out the script.

Awhile back I read a post in here where Ko-Tao talked about binding mouse scroll wheel click to "use_weapon_physcannon" and mouse wheel up to +attack. I found this to be a very interesting idea, in fact it makes perfect sense to be able to complete an action that requires 2 key presses in one motion without a script. Well guess what, when I do fast balls in that manner I see the faster speed of fast ball 8/10 times on average. I still use the regular way of fastballing as I use mouse wheel tilt right and left for direct weapon binds (these are more important to me to keep basically) and its very often that I would inadvertently switch to one of those weapons after doing it and that was bad in a orb fight. For someone not using tilt, this has to be the way some people seem to be able to do the faster speed more often. either that or they have super human reflexs and possibly shorter distances from the brain to the fingertips (lower ping )

edit: I forgot to add that I talked to the all time orb whore *cough tarkan cough* about this and he said, he has only seen one speed of fast. This leads me to believe that even though he has prolly fired more obs than all of us combined, he is always seeing the fast fast ball or the normal speed fast ball every time. While its always possible that something like high FPS and a better connection may allow you to see the real speed, its weird some of us can see both speeds of fast.

When I practice on my own server, Killbox_TSGK_v8, I bounce the blue container around with fast balls, or try to shoot them into the bunker from all kinds of angles. Never had a doubt there's different speeds of fast. What seems strange to me, is that when I fire several balls in a row, the first one usually is slowest.

Some of you may look down on killbox players, but the difference in speed is of course much more noticeable in a large empty place than in a lockdown hallway.

edit: sry, didn't read the whole post, everything seems to have been said and it's time to wait for someone with a demoed test.

When I practice on my own server, Killbox_TSGK_v8, I bounce the blue container around with fast balls, or try to shoot them into the bunker from all kinds of angles. Never had a doubt there's different speeds of fast. What seems strange to me, is that when I fire several balls in a row, the first one usually is slowest.

Some of you may look down on killbox players, but the difference in speed is of course much more noticeable in a large empty place than in a lockdown hallway.

edit: sry, didn't read the whole post, everything seems to have been said and it's time to wait for someone with a demoed test.

Actually the more people who can confirm they see it helps us that also see it, not feel like were crazy or just seeing things. I find it real odd that some of the real long time players are so adamant about it not being possible to have more than one speed of fast. It makes me think they just have never been able to punch it fast enough to make it happen.

I find it real odd that some of the real long time players are so adamant about it not being possible to have more than one speed of fast. It makes me think they just have never been able to punch it fast enough to make it happen.

Well I have seen what I thought looked like different speeds many times, but actual testing proved it to be either a trick of perception, or some weird phenomenon relating to lag.

It's a bit like some of the bug testing I have done. I was certain something was a certain way until I tested it in a controlled manner.

As I said before, a demo would settle this once and for all.

I found a killbox where if you stand against a wall and fire a slow orb, it will travel exactly to the opposing wall and expire just as it hits it. When you fire a fast orb it returns and expires right as it hits the wall you are standing at. Map is dm_killbox_ultimate.

A couple interesting things I found:

It may have to something to do with the messed up animation you see of the ar2 after you fire one orb.
When you pull the ar2 back out a second time and the ar2 acts like it wants to spit out another orb without you pushing fire.

For some reason I see this messed up animation / action every single time I am on a dedicated server and fire a orb.
Secondly this messed up animation / action does not occur on a listen server.
Third thing is if you fire a orb fast or slow as fast as possible after the messed up animation / action the slow orb will even travel farther likewise with the fast orb.
So this increased travel must indicate a faster speed, although it is hard to see the increased speed in this type of map.

In other words when the slow orb traveled all the way across the map and hit the opposing wall it would expire right as it hit the wall, when I fired a second orb with the messed up animation / action, the slow orb would now bounce off the wall and return a distance about the equivalent of a blue dumpster, the fast ball had the same result. I did make a demo but its real long and Id need to edit it out just to show the relevant parts. Besides that Id like to get someone else in there to make sure they see the same thing and its not just client side.
Further testing and demo coming soon.

It's all in your guises domes

the slow orb would now bounce off the wall and return a distance about the equivalent of a blue dumpster, the fast ball had the same result.

Sounds similar to what Modal was saying, the timer starts when you hit it, so maybe the glitch is causing you to hit it later.

Having said that, one blue dumpster length is not really far enough to call a different speed, at least not of any significance IMO when taken as a percentage over the total distance travelled. Would you agree? The visual difference I see when playing would seem to imply at least a 10 to 20% increase in total travel distance.

I agree the extra distance doesn't seem like enough to equal the extra speed we sometimes see, but it does amount to something. So I guess I'm gonna have to try some more things, as when firing a slow orb I'm not hitting it, therefore the timer would not be reset, however you can still make it go further than normal if you see a glitch (which I see everytime on a dedicated server). When I get a demo ready you will see that, and you will also see that punching it at the very last possible second before it gets too far away does not make it go further. I demo'd about 100 orb shots with variances in the timing of hitting it to come to these conclusions.

Some might say wow who cares about this, but dammit now its bothering me,lol and Im sick(flu) and bored so I gots nothing better to do atm.

One question for anyone who cares to answer:
Does everyone see the ar2 glitch everytime as well, or only sometimes, or never?

I get the glitch i think when i switch very quickly to grav gun from ar and hit secondary fire almost before ive switched, it does it with all weapons, including a very startling smg nade sound and anim lol

thx zman,
I get the same smg nade sound as well but in my testing all I have to do is switch to ar2 after gg and it glitches without hitting a fire button everytime. I wonder why this wont happen on a listen server?

Yeah I get that animation also. but ti doesn't happen all the time. It does happen more offten when I switch very quickly to something else (excluding gg) right after ive shot the orb. With the gg it seems to be kinda random, so I'll do some testing tonight and report back on what I find. I have also wondered about the speed, cause I have definately seens and heard boosted CBs that are going WAY faster than normal. Its like hl2dm's own Nessy, there are lots of reported sightings but no hard evidence. hehe

i always wanted to test this: can other players hear the nonexistent orb fire? cause i get very annoyed at the sound it makes, but maybe others cant hear it?

i always wanted to test this: can other players hear the nonexistent orb fire? cause i get very annoyed at the sound it makes, but maybe others cant hear it?

Yeah, I get that sound too.

I don't know if I'm able to hear it when it happens ot other players, but I do hear it when it happens to me. It usually in conjuntion with that weird animation.

First off, I dont believe there are faster speeds of a speedball. I think what I've always noticed was that people can fire fastballs faster than most. It seems like that by the time you can recognize the sound of the altfire firing up its way too late even if you're a good distance from the player. Theres players that fire fast orb and its like ok I have an hour to grab this thing and theres other times where some l337 players seem to fire the orb faster. And I dont mean a faster speed.

As for the AR2 sound Im pretty sure that other players cant hear it. I could be wrong though.

Btw, I use phys_swap for collecting items faster.

One more thing, I've seen people somehow silence orbs in their g-gun. Im not going to say who because I'm sure they'll be messaging me telling me not to say anything but I've seen it. They told me to stand at ar2 in bathroom on LD and next thing i know they're coming into the back with a combine ball in their g-gun and I never heard them coming. Absolutely NO sound from the ball at all. I wish people would tell others about this.

You can silence the gg by "double clicking" attack2. In other words, press attack2 to pick up a physics...then quickly press and hold attack2 again. GG goes slient and you are still holding the physics.

I've never thought to try that on an orb, I suppose because I usually feel lucky as hell that I caught the damn thing!

yes the silent ggun trick is an interesting....feature

Absolutely NO sound from the ball at all. I wish people would tell others about this.

Could we start with you? That would be nice.

i think his point is that he doesnt know either, and i think it was just explained a few posts up. basically you apply the silent ggun trick to an orb, or so it seems. ive never tried this with orbs before...

Well, now that I think about this a bit more... the gg can be silenced. But while holding an orb, its the orb making noise... not the gg? Maybe jettex is onto something completely different.

and wtf is up with the name change bro?! i liked tinjins better

the orb only becomes silent when you're out of their sound range and then come into their sound range with it. rarely does it happen though, since the orb would have only like a second or two left before it would expire D:

Absolutely NO sound from the ball at all. I wish people would tell others about this.

Could we start with you? That would be nice.

lawl

First off, I dont believe there are faster speeds of a speedball. I think what I've always noticed was that people can fire fastballs faster than most. It seems like that by the time you can recognize the sound of the altfire firing up its way too late even if you're a good distance from the player. Theres players that fire fast orb and its like ok I have an hour to grab this thing and theres other times where some l337 players seem to fire the orb faster. And I dont mean a faster speed.

Maybe ping? if you play against really low ping players (around 10), the orb leaves really quickly D:

Let me clarify. No I had no idea you could even silence the g-gun when holding any prop. Glad someone knows but hasnt told anyone. *sigh*

@ seagull: yeah you're right in that aspect that by that time you wouldnt hear it, but the funny thing is the ball itself was rabbit punched and still made no noise. No g-gun noise, no orb noise. And it stayed no matter how long you were holding it nor how many times it was rabbit punched. I wish SOMEONE would clarify such stuff and techniques instead of holding it back. Like the whole speed crouch thing...apparently players like St!nky and Hidden maybe? already knew about it but never bothered to tell anyone, then it got leaked, and now everyone knows. Someday, everyone will be on the same page in this game. Sure you could argue that these players dont want everyone to know game-breaking things such as listed above, but you know damn well its so they can have the advantage. I dont blame them though. I probably wouldnt tell half you mofos anything either. :\

Im bitter. So what?

EDIT: However I must say thanks for clarifying the fact that you can silence your g-gun with any prop. Its no wonder i play certain elites 1v1 and they come up behind me holding a prop and blast me with it yet I never heard a damn sound. Just makes me want to use that sort of thing against them too. Thanks!

Let me clarify. No I had no idea you could even silence the g-gun when holding any prop. Glad someone knows but hasnt told anyone. *sigh*

I found it by myself long ago, and I DID tell everyone, or at least those who read the forums...
check my post in this old thread.
http://www.hl2dm-university.com/forum/p ... a&start=20
=)

-_-

-_-

D; ????

Let me clarify. No I had no idea you could even silence the g-gun when holding any prop. Glad someone knows but hasnt told anyone. *sigh*

I found it by myself long ago, and I DID tell everyone, or at least those who read the forums...
check my post in this old thread.
http://www.hl2dm-university.com/forum/p ... a&start=20
=)

Yep, that's where I first learned about it. Uncle Onty told me.

haha Uncle Onty

It does sound like you're on to something completely different Jettex. What about using the flashlight with the orb? I can't do that, but I've read that using the flashlight when firing weapons "silences" the weapon. Could be done with the orb? Then catch it off a wall and it remains silent?

yeah the flashlight thing is easy.... but dunno about the silenced orb D:
u can also silence shots with the gg.
all this techniques should be in somewhere...I mean like all togheter.... for instance on the offical curriculum D:

HeHeHe

yeh something like extrem weapon intro's was missing this allready.

HeHeHe

:roll:

HeHeHe

looks like someone knows

Let me clarify. No I had no idea you could even silence the g-gun when holding any prop. Glad someone knows but hasnt told anyone. *sigh*

@ seagull: yeah you're right in that aspect that by that time you wouldnt hear it, but the funny thing is the ball itself was rabbit punched and still made no noise. No g-gun noise, no orb noise. And it stayed no matter how long you were holding it nor how many times it was rabbit punched. I wish SOMEONE would clarify such stuff and techniques instead of holding it back. Like the whole speed crouch thing...apparently players like St!nky and Hidden maybe? already knew about it but never bothered to tell anyone, then it got leaked, and now everyone knows. Someday, everyone will be on the same page in this game. Sure you could argue that these players dont want everyone to know game-breaking things such as listed above, but you know damn well its so they can have the advantage. I dont blame them though. I probably wouldnt tell half you mofos anything either. :\

Im bitter. So what?

EDIT: However I must say thanks for clarifying the fact that you can silence your g-gun with any prop. Its no wonder i play certain elites 1v1 and they come up behind me holding a prop and blast me with it yet I never heard a damn sound. Just makes me want to use that sort of thing against them too. Thanks!

haha I remember i spilled da beans on the fast vent to a few people when i wasn't suppose to and they told allot of other people about it scar *cough cough* woops sry about that had something in my throat. :evil:

I have been messing around with all this stuff lately, cant say i see a real difference only thing i see is that lastinv makes it allot easier to do the yoyo thing than using phys_swap which is what I use and no i don't scroll mine I didn't have lastinv binded till yesterday.

Last time i was hearing some rumors going around that I scripted my gravity gun to do the nade yoyo and fastorbs. :evil:

Yeh do it with lastinv too its default on Q (default FTW ) once you got that the nade recatch is easyer when you move fast its pretty easy

I'm jealous of you yoyoers. I can't figure that out for the life of me. Not matter how fast I try to go I can never manage it. *sigh* practice practice practice i know i know...

Wow I just realized I went by my 420th post without celebrating, shit man it fuckin snuck up on me!

there is some old post I did once ... maybe you can find it...in which I said it was REALLY hard to yo yo a nade.
Now I generally do it on every match I play (if I have the necessary ping)
Just keep trying ! ;D

I actually had a break through last night and was able to do it a couple times. I wasn't doing my kestroke exactly right and it was throwing everything off. Now that I've done it but have a hard time recreating it consistantly I have a lot of motivation to practice, which always makes practicing easier lol. I'll be yoyoing nades like blas and getting called a scirpter in no time.

haha..good ^^
I find it really easy with crowbar on q, and gravity gun on f... I can even bhop and yoyo ( saying this cuz some people's config might limit them and avoid bhop while yoyoing)

I think with some practice I could bhop and yoyo. I have lastwep on Q and gg on mouse 5, so really the only part that would take some fanagling would be left turns, but that could be compensated for with some creative keystroke timing. I just want to be able to do combine ball yoyo kills, they look so funny! ahahaha