Overwatch Reloaded Project

Hi all,

During my work on the map it would be great to get ppl's view on various aspects relating to the map… both current questions are performance related:

1. How important in your opinion are the opened (broken really) windows on the (2nd) floor under the RPG. Alternative – close those windows altogether.(Remember - you can ONLY throw nades from the outside. you CANNOT do anything effective from the inside.) see attached img for ref.

2. How important are the Combine Clusters? (next to the 357 area and the one opposing it next to the debris mound). Alternative…put blown out buildings in their place.
see attached img for ref - left to the circled windows is a Combine Cluster.

i'm at work now so i can't add screens; let me know if those are needed to better understand the locations in question.

Thanks.

Reference for background on the progect @ http://www.hl2dm-university.com/forum/p ... a&start=20

I'd say put more health in, but then it might ruin the overall way to play overwatch.

The windows need to be fixed so there is less of a disadvantage for the people inside the building

I have seen some players play a specific tactic using the windows. Could change gameplay some if they are sealed up. Are the ones on the side of that building on the end going to be closed also?

hey deacon, good seeing ya

I have seen some players play a specific tactic using the windows.

could you elaborate on it a bit?

Are the ones on the side of that building on the end going to be closed also?

lost me....which ones? northern or southern (see attached crappy sketch for ref.)

why would you take out the windows? just wondering. From outside you can sneak from the x-bow and take shots at the rpg area. or nade the 2nd floor. From inside you can smg_nade the mound and jump out of the window on the southeast side.

But main thing the closed windows would do is make the 2nd floor easier to hold and thus making it harder to get control of the RPG if the other team has it.

This one he was waiting for me at the shotgun

This one he was waiting with a rpg

Yeah I think You gotta leave the windows as is, not only the things nino just stated (I 2nd that) but you can use the window frames for some xbow bank shots as well.

I also 2nd the idea to have more health

the northeast area needs something....

Again, just to make sure we're on the same page:

i was referring to the southern windows only. Not the northern one (where I can clearly see the advantage of leaving as is).
I’m still not sure what is the tactic involving using the southern windows? Can u explain? You can't move in or out of them as they are player clipped. Only the northern windows aren't.

maybe im missing something...
thanks.

(Remember - you can ONLY throw nades from the outside. you CANNOT do anything effective from the inside.)

What do you mean by this?

You can throw nades from the inside to hit the 357 (killing players trying to pick it up or camping there) as well as hit the other extreme corner where people like to sit and try and snipe the rpg holder. You can also shoot smg nades out the windows in a variety of directions.

The combine clusters provide a little hiding spot when trying to snipe a rpg user, the other side by 357 I see no use there.

You can throw nades from the inside to hit the 357 (killing players trying to pick it up or camping there) as well as hit the other extreme corner where people like to sit and try and snipe the rpg holder. You can also shoot smg nades out the windows in a variety of directions.

true. i was wrong.

i'm thinking removing the HP next to the RPG spot would be good idea.
any thoughts on where else to put it ?

I think you should just skip this project and keep working on new maps. The game play of overwatch cannot really be fixed with out radical changes to the map if you are going to do that then why even base this new map off of overwatch. The other option is to just do some tweaking of the map but that won't get it over its competitive problems. Take a look at lockdown_r3 all the work and still constant complaining. Generally speaking people who play stock maps will put up with just about any bug or short coming but when you try to fix that they will inevitably complain and say it was a feature. Competitive play has moved away from overwatch for obvious reasons and the pubs won't ever change their map cycle to reflect a new map just like R3. If you like some aspects of overwatch you can incorporate them into a new map, then you will not get the same over anal scrutiny on the new map that you would get on an overwatch remake. Also I think that competitively overwatch could use more interconnection opening up more doors and stuff will decrease FPS though on the already small map pushing FPS for what it is.

I'll try to catch you online later tonight and explain a little better. I get confused easily lol!!

I think you should just skip this project and keep working on new maps. The game play of overwatch cannot really be fixed with out radical changes to the map if you are going to do that then why even base this new map off of overwatch. The other option is to just do some tweaking of the map but that won't get it over its competitive problems. Take a look at lockdown_r3 all the work and still constant complaining. Generally speaking people who play stock maps will put up with just about any bug or short coming but when you try to fix that they will inevitably complain and say it was a feature. Competitive play has moved away from overwatch for obvious reasons and the pubs won't ever change their map cycle to reflect a new map just like R3. If you like some aspects of overwatch you can incorporate them into a new map, then you will not get the same over anal scrutiny on the new map that you would get on an overwatch remake. Also I think that competitively overwatch could use more interconnection opening up more doors and stuff will decrease FPS though on the already small map pushing FPS for what it is.

good point. only alas, i'm done with renewing all its brushwork already . at least 90% if not more of its brushwork has been completley redone from the ground up and the rest has been all checked and not a stone unturned. I can only assume the brushword errors affected its FPS...that, and the fact there's a hilarious ammount of props.
I left the compile running when i went to work so later on today i'll see if (and how) my brushwork changed things.

i dont care if ppl with complain as long as i get a solid positive reaction from competative gamers here. that - and the fact its a long personal challenge of mine - was the reason for me to do this in the first place.

the fact OW is a KOTH type of map basically sets its purpose. i'm not sure if there is a way of making a KOTH map with high FPS...on the other hand how can a KOTH map be really competative? so, we think alike and still ..might be nice, even if for a limited circle of players, having a better-smoother version of OW.

having said that...

The game play of overwatch cannot really be fixed with out radical changes

like what ?

The Windows there are important. You can lob SMG nades from inside, headshot folks inside from the pile, magnum/bow folks on the RPG crosswalk through those windows and bounce GNade folks inside from outside.
You can even fire the RPG from inside the windows.

err, that is whenever i played OW, you know, years ago, when forced to lol.

I WOULD consider lowering the RPG back wall to leave it more exposed and building up the left side to protect the bow room and that long spawn point.

cool. thanks.

depends on how you are gonna add to the map, but one thing that would even out the ground floor and the top is nades, you can nade the rpg area from a bunch of spots. But the only nades on the map are right under the rpg or up on the 3rd floor. Couple spots for some smg_nade lobs aswell.

I'm just wondering how you want to add to the map i guess b4 anything big.

I agree that something should be done with the northeastern corner. Maybe some cover from the rpg, maybe some health and armor in the cover. Its hard to think of a change that won't drastically effect the game play lol. At least I'm having a hard time. I think the windows are great the way they are, very integral to a lot of strats. O maybe make it so you can go in that doorway under that white awning thing in the NW corner, kinda like the xbow room. Would serve as cover without have to put a new structure in the map.

I played a version that had a working door across from the basement enterance, with an x-bow and armor. Also had that door under the awning leading up to a sniper window which was there in the single player version. Couple sniping windows like these, wouldn't be to bad.

I'm just wondering how you want to add to the map i guess b4 anything big.

well 3 main things really:

1) Increase FPS when facing the center of the map.
2) tone down the dominance of the RPG spot - either by closing it a bit more or by adding high spots to even the odds.
3) add pickups lol.

...

About that high sniper spot from the game...here's what i was thinking... have it more or less a blown out room as oppose to the well shielded closed room you had in the game...only shielded from the xbow direction and the rpg direction by man size broken walls. one for each direction.
the way to get up there is obviously by using the doorway under the NW corner awning and some fast stairs hideen inside the building. Having the whole entrance to the awning shielded from above and from the east but has slits facing the direction of the the RPG only so you can't camp there really. the idea behind the top shield is exposing the sniper spot more, making it harder to camp.
as for the RPG spot, i'm definitly going with Impala's idea

I WOULD consider lowering the RPG back wall to leave it more exposed and building up the left side to protect the bow room and that long spawn point.

another idea i had about the RPG spot is add a floor piece to block a bit of view to the stairs.

Add at least 2 more HPs and a few more nades. the main problem i think in the stock version as far as weapon placement goes is the fact you have an RPG, HP and MAG all in the same spot. this should change.
also, i don't see a reason to have so much physics. quarter off the ammount is well enough. doubtless all the screens, chairs, bottles and keyboards are just plain useless and cramping up the map.

What i have already done is smoothed out the debris mounds, making them easier to climb and clipped every corner, lintel and crossbar.
i've also replaced all the broken floor models with brushwork to reduce polycount and removed redundant textures and entities from non-player areas.

now i bet i'm gonna get home, launch DM, realize my version lags like crap, go back to the U forum and PM WT to delete this whole thread lmao.

I don't know if you've ever heard of king_air, but I have been making a KOTH map myself for nearly two years so far (still haven't gotten even the basic brushwork done). Not a DM map with KOTH in mind, but actual King of the Hill gameplay with seperate scores and whatnot.

Well, what did that paragraph have to do with this topic? I have some ideas for new King maps after I'm doing with king_air, and one of them would be a map similar to overwatch but suited for 4v4 objective-based action. Overwatch has a nice circular flow around the building, and the peeking in through windows with Magnum/XBow/Nade gameplay allows for some anti-camping. The one armor in the map makes it rather frantic and even balanced for 1v1s since the guy with the RPG is easily to put a mortal wound on. The low amount of health is bothersome in any game with more than 3 players. The high skybox allows for some crazy high-lob into RPG kills, as well as other fun stuff if you can remember angles with cl_showpos.

Take the good elements from Overwatch and expand them into a bigger, better map.
- Circular flow. You might even want to change this to a double-building map with the 8-flow like in de_dust or dm_lockdown, with debris and hills in between them to prevent the map from becoming a sniping map.
- Low health and armor. This works well for Overwatch, it's just fast-paced and frantic unlike Lockdown, where you might want to take it slow.
- Prop gameplay. Overwatch has a bit too many props, but they have some ones that allow for teamwork and hinderance. Blocking entrances with props is an annoying, but viable tactic. You can slow down enemies by putting a ton of crap on a narrow hallway and snipe them. Props actually are more than just weapons in Overwatch.

Fix the bad elements of Overwatch:
- Size
- RPG position
- Too little armor/health.

that's great suggestions and thx.

thoughts:

however small OW is atm....wouldn't you say it would be unnecessarily too big once doubled? (to actually mirror it back to back).
secondly, wouldn't adding one or two more high spots to snipe off the RPG camper do the same job as mirroring the buildings to oppose eachother?

I don't think it'd be too big if you "duplicated" it side by side instead of stacking them the long way.

Everybody's got good points about this. I agree with Fearsome in that it will end up as a footnote really...if you fixed the unclipped areas and named it "fixed" even then some people would snub it just for that reason. Of course everyone has complaints, for me the rpg is a tad too easy to defend with bits of rebar and concrete in the way, there's too much junk, etc.

For the pickups I used entspy to put a healthpack in the back of the truck, that seemed to work well. I like Grape's battery idea too. I always seem to use the windows in both directions.

win?

Why dont you guys just play dm_zeta_prefinal? I dont think theres anything you can do to dm_overwatch that'll give it any notice for league play. However Im sure the SoCal craptastic servers would gladly load this map.

win?

nice idea. tho i dont think it can happen with all the windows and door...it has to go on a serious diet. otherwise FPS will drop to 20
might be a nice theme for a custom map.. .

win?

Interesting briggs. But what about the insides of the buildings? what are they for? I like where you've taken this though

win?

Interesting briggs. But what about the insides of the buildings? what are they for? I like where you've taken this though

oh, the weapons will be in there normal spots, the shoty and the ar2, the only thing that will be moved out of the building is the rpg, (don't want 3 on the map D: )

What about placing a charger on the ground level of the map to not only give people on the ground an advantage but to also give the rpg an insentive to come down from his perch? You should implement some of the more drastic changes and then run some play testing, cause otherwise determining good/bad changes is gonna be mostly speculation/educated guessing. Some things people are sceptical about now on the forum might actually play really well and turn out to be great or vise versa.

Might also be interesting to connect the northeast and northwestern corners through the building, possibly putting one of the elevated sniping spots near the top. Then orient the snipe spot so your could see through the southern window of the main building to the rpg or at least to part of the rpg area. This would make it a little bit harder to snipe someone at rpg spot because you would have to shoot through the window frame instead of having a clean shot. Not that much more difficult but more difficult none the less.

http://steamreview.org/external/vdc/vmex098g.zip

I don’t mean this to come across the wrong way...but for all new mappers who are going to use this tool. Please be respectful to others and yourself when opening other people's works. you can (and I think you should) look at how things were done but out right copy-pasting bits of or complete structures (brushwork) is dishonoring and won't get you anywhere. This tool was made by mappers for mappers to help the community learn ...not steal.

Having said that….Njoy

dm_overwatch is a map for 1v1 or 2v2 as maximum.

So please don't try to saturate it with a lot of weapons and stuff.

IMO (besides fixing some walls/windows glitches) you should add more health and suit, not too much, but a bit more.

Also, many props should be discarted!

Also, many props should be discarted!

I tend to agree, even though many will protest. in reality this change can only benefit the map and well its gameplay. ppl seem to have no idea how much FPS those little buggers take.

Ok if you are making a completely offset map of overwatch, no one has any room to say anything about "dont touch overwatch" "its for 1v1 2v2 blah blah". If you are trying to take overwatch and re-make the original with a few differences, people will still get pissed no matter what. But like briggs idea with 3 buildings, no one can be like "YOU RUINED OVERWATCH OMG WAH" because its not like you're valve replacing an original map, just making a new one.

Yes, I bad interpetrated "Reloaded" with "Revised", heh.