[Survey] What You Look For in a Map

What You Look For in a Map
Survey run by Joe O. Kelly

Nebulous Productions® is a non-profit organization focused on certain departments of art: cinematography, photography, and 3d-level game design. One of many game engines that we have only recently associated ourselves with would be the Source™ engine created by Valve®. After reviewing through all games powered by this engine, Half-Life 2™: Deatmatch was deemed to many of us to be by far the most interesting and compelling one. In a similar light to previous deathmatch games that we have familiarized ourselves with, Half-Life 2™: Deathmatch met our expectations when we searched for a game to build projects upon. And because of this, we directly ask you, the players, for what you would like to see in a map. We have tried our best to educate ourselves about the game beforehand because we enjoy games just like you do, and we plan the maps with gameplay being our primary concerns. We know the basics of gameplay tactics such as bunny hopping, sniping, jump pads, and other such quirks and are not afraid to experiment with such elements that made Half-Life 2™: Deathmatch stick out from the rest of the games to us in the first place.

The survey results will be observed directly from myself, Joe O. Kelly, through reading this survey. In the event that you may wonder who I am, some of you may know me better through my alias "NP-Joe". Please try to keep your replies in an orderly and structured format. You may be as brief or detailed as you wish to be as we would like to known in full detail what you, the player, would like to see in a game level designed by gamers, not developers. And remember, please try to keep things civil. That being said:

Question 1
What is your current favorite map? Why?


Question 2
What is your current least favorite map? Why?


Question 3
What elements would you like to see more of in future maps?


Question 4
How many props do you like to see in a 1v1/2v2/4v4 map?


Question 5
What is your opinion on the following game movement tools?
- Jump pad (func_door/func_button)
- Walkable ramps
- Water
- Stairs
- Elevators (slower than jump pads)
- Teleporters (with or without telefragging)
- Ladders
- Sliding ramps (as seen in some "surfing" maps for Counter-Strike™)
- Boost ramp (ramps that launch you into the air and accelerate you with great speed)
- Ice floor (slippery, frictionless, or pushy floors that will accelerate you towards one direction or push you away)
Remember, you do not need to answer upon all questions if you wish to. Your opinion is important to us.


Question 6
What are your opinions upon putting a power weapon (Rocket Launcher in this case) in a 1v1 map? Upon putting multiple Rocket Launchers in a single map designed for 4v4+ combat? Having some risk on achieving the weapon (as seen in Lockdown), or having little (as seen in Lost Village)?


Question 7
What are your favorite weapons? Why?


Question 8
What are your least favorite weapons? Why?


Question 9
What is the furthest PTrain level that you can jump on a consistent and comfortable basis? Assume that you would be able to reliably make this jump under a stressful condition such as during a match.


Question 10
Some of us who have played Team Fortress™ 2 have greatly enjoyed certain maps, most notably Gold Rush and Granary. Upon possible experimentation with the I/O system, we have concluded a hybrid of these two maps' gameplay modes. Would you be interested in playing a map based upon objectives and teamwork rather than deathmatch and frag count?


Question 11
What do you ultimately look for in a map? What makes a map good, fun, memorable, and playable for countless ages?


Thank you for reading and answering the survey. Your time and opinions are greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Joe "NP-Joe" O. Kelly

i will try answering this question, just gotta find the time 1st

But in the meantime could you link me to some of the projects you or your team have worked in the past?
you have peeked my interest

Lots of questions there, don't have the time to answer them all atm but I'll answer 1 just now.

Question 9
What is the furthest PTrain level that you can jump on a consistent and comfortable basis? Assume that you would be able to reliably make this jump under a stressful condition such as during a match.

This poll/topic might help you out: http://www.hl2dm-university.com/forum/p ... lit=ptrain

Most people start to struggle around 10 - 12. And considering the stress factor during a game it would probably be wise to say that anything over 12 would to impossible for the majority of players. But in saying that, if there was a gap greater then 12 (even 15) on a map you could use a smg-nade or a nade to launch yourself over it.

Question 1
What is your current favorite map? Why?

I don't really know if I have a "favorite" one. I like playing aim_arena because it's the only map I know has fast action and jump pads. But I also like biohazard for it's style and well implemented teleporter, caverns has a great flow, etc. Sorry I couldn't be more especific and name just one =/

Question 2
What is your current least favorite map? Why?

hmmm ... regarding competitive maps, dm_vault or dm_drift_revised I'd say. The first one just ... I don't like the style, it doesn't allow for anything greater than spamming smg nades... there is hardly any bank shot to do, there is no rpg, it's all completely closed (afaik), and has some useless props. Drift, even though revised, doesn't have really good fps, plus I don't like how it is played.

Question 3
What elements would you like to see more of in future maps?

I'd love to see more "vertical" action. I mean instead of long and flat maps like lostvillage or lockdown, something a bit more like quake, with jump pads, difference in height, etc. It's not that I don't like the current maps, it's just that there are almost no map with this style (just maybe aim arena or killboxes).

Question 4
How many props do you like to see in a 1v1/2v2/4v4 map?

There needs to be a decent amount. Not a LOT, neither scarce. Don't include those useless and little props like bottles and stuff. It's nice to have a sawblade. barrels work fine too.

Question 5
What is your opinion on the following game movement tools?

-Sorry I don't know much about mapping, so I can't say anything about the func_door and stuff. But I really like jump pads
-Walkable ramps are good, specially when you can use the otherwise to bounce and gain speed.
-water is good to avoid fall damage, but I don't like it being overused on maps (specially for the fps hogger it can be)
-Teleporters need to be well thought and placed. If so it can be good (swot maps have good placed teleporters, check biohazard, lostarena or octagon to have an idea)
regarding telefragging, why not!:)
-ladders kinda slow down movement, so you also need to position those well. Avoid long ones too, unless you want to position something important on top? o.0
-hmmm not a huge fan of sliding ramps. I prefer boosting as mentioned before. Besides I don't see a good competitive map using this D;
-Boost ramps can be nice. I'd like to try a good map using them...there are few.

Question 6
What are your opinions upon putting a power weapon (Rocket Launcher in this case) in a 1v1 map? Upon putting multiple Rocket Launchers in a single map designed for 4v4+ combat? Having some risk on achieving the weapon (as seen in Lockdown), or having little (as seen in Lost Village)?

I really don't mind much about the rocket. Depends how you plan your map. If you want the RL to be the main weapon of control then do it like in lostvillage, if you want it to be a secondary strong option, then do it like in lockdown. But IMO definitely don't use multiple rocket launchers >.<

Question 7
What are your favorite weapons? Why?

I find myself using mag and shotgun a lot for being strong and useful at almost any range ( not long with shotgun, obviously =P). But I'd say I love the rocket for the great unexpected shots you can pull with it, and the xbow for the ricochets you can do, both in the moment improvised ones, or planned trick shots. I spam orbs 24/7 on closed maps too ^^. That's also something good to have, cuz it makes the game more dynamic, having to be fast to react as soon as you hear the ar2 charging. Besides, you can always cath em
To summarize, I like most of them, but don't leave xbow and RL aside

Question 9
What is the furthest PTrain level that you can jump on a consistent and comfortable basis? Assume that you would be able to reliably make this jump under a stressful condition such as during a match.

hmmm...9 or 10? I might fall if during a match though >.< I've got till 14 so far... but I need some time to get 12 and 13.

Question 10
Some of us who have played Team Fortress™ 2 have greatly enjoyed certain maps, most notably Gold Rush and Granary. Upon possible experimentation with the I/O system, we have concluded a hybrid of these two maps' gameplay modes. Would you be interested in playing a map based upon objectives and teamwork rather than deathmatch and frag count?

Sorry I'm ignorant regarding TF2, but if I understood the last part correctly, then the answer .....would be yes I guess. I wouldn't mind trying an "objective" based map, but I think fragging definitely feels better Should try what you have in mind though.

Question 11
What do you ultimately look for in a map? What makes a map good, fun, memorable, and playable for countless ages?

Don't leave aesthetics aside... that's a huge mistake some mappers do. You will need to do it the most balanced possible, place weapon in the correct places, make sure passages are wide (unless you plan a 1v1 map or a risky access). Anyway this has been discussed a lot... and I'm not the most experienced regarding this, so I'd rather let other finish it ^^

Finally, you are welcome sir, it was a pleasure

A brief preface about the respondent.
Playing hl2dm for only 1 ½ years.
In Second season of CAL..
Never made a map.
Play 75% of the time for fun and generally consider myself an easy going sem-casual player. I try not to take the video game universe so damn seriously when so many other thangs are happening in real life.


Question 1
What is your current favorite map? Why?

Lost Arena. I like the quick fast paced maps that don’t have a lot of props. I have a wireless internet connection. Props often do not kill my enemies and are very hard to catch. I also often get stuck on props. The small size combined with a good flow make this my current favorite.

Question 2
What is your current least favorite map? Why?
DM Joyride. Clogged flow. Can’t throw trash cans. Shitty FPS.


Question 3
What elements would you like to see more of in future maps?
No more than two body lengths of vertical range. Enough burnt out knova prospekt’s thanks folks. A new idea of location would be good.
I like the map that has good open areas with less than two choke points area.
Maybe a team objective based map. Where the spawn points are combine/rebel specific.
Please add water like the bottom of the lift of Aim_Arena to lessen fall damge. I want the player not the map to kill me please.

Question 4
How many props do you like to see in a 1v1/2v2/4v4 map?
Had I the luxuory of a better set up it wouldn’t bother me as much...that being said there should be props on a map, just don’t have them littering the map like so much space junk trash, *(See DM_Doughnut for examples)


Question 5
What is your opinion on the following game movement tools?
- Jump pad (func_door/func_button)

- Walkable ramps
Meh. I can do with out them.
- Water
Excellent addition.

- Stairs
Quite possibly necessary.

- Elevators (slower than jump pads)
Like KBH?? Fast and non-leathal? Good.
Slow and kill you? ZBad.

- Teleporters (with or without telefragging)
Good if placed in a way that you can makes sense of after a few times.

- Ladders
Can’t stand them. But can be necessary.

- Sliding ramps (as seen in some "surfing" maps for Counter-Strike™)
Unable to comment.



- Boost ramp (ramps that launch you into the air and accelerate you with great speed)
Only one I have played are the ones on the S-UK map I forget the name of. They’re ok I guess.

- Ice floor (slippery, frictionless, or pushy floors that will accelerate you towards one direction or push you away)
Remember, you do not need to answer upon all questions if you wish to. Your opinion is important to us.
Never played on an ice floor.


Question 6
What are your opinions upon putting a power weapon (Rocket Launcher in this case) in a 1v1 map? Upon putting multiple Rocket Launchers in a single map designed for 4v4+ combat? Having some risk on achieving the weapon (as seen in Lockdown), or having little (as seen in Lost Village)?

I think it adds a familiar element of control and keep an area for the purposes of winning. RL is not needed. It just add another element to the game. I point to lost arena to exemplify the point. If it is there, I would like to see it more difficult to reach a la Biohazard or Tigrick so it’s not just out in a room to camp like lostvillage.

Question 7
What are your favorite weapons? Why?
Nade. You spawn with it. And getting a grav nade kill right after you spawn has to be the most satisfying feelin in this game for me anyways. Plus the sic games of yo-yo/hot potato of death are pressure cookers of fun.

Question 8
What are your least favorite weapons? Why?
Mag. Used to be my favorite. Now I can’t hit a bardoor as the registration seems to have gone to the dogs.

Question 9
What is the furthest PTrain level that you can jump on a consistent and comfortable basis? Assume that you would be able to reliably make this jump under a stressful condition such as during a match.

7 or 8.

Question 10
Some of us who have played Team Fortress™ 2 have greatly enjoyed certain maps, most notably Gold Rush and Granary. Upon possible experimentation with the I/O system, we have concluded a hybrid of these two maps' gameplay modes. Would you be interested in playing a map based upon objectives and teamwork rather than deathmatch and frag count?
I log on the RAW and some other CTF maps for the sheer fun of doing something other than killing. I would love to see a thematic based Combine vs Rebel based maps. *(jailbreak out rebels etc.)

Question 11
What do you ultimately look for in a map? What makes a map good, fun, memorable, and playable for countless ages?

Playability.

Nebulous Productions, are you for real?
Your website seems to be down.

Question 5
What is your opinion on the following game movement tools?
- Jump pad (func_door/func_button) Yes although they dont work very well.

- Water Can make a map look good and also slow down player to get a valuable /weapon powerup

- Stairs only if player clipped so to enable people bunnyhop up them

- Teleporters (with or without telefragging) Yes teleporters are good.

- Ladders only short ones like in lockdown

- Sliding ramps (as seen in some "surfing" maps for Counter-Strike™) Doesnt belong in a competative map

Nebulous Productions, are you for real?
Your website seems to be down.

nebulousproductions.com is working but nebulaproductions.com doesn't exist...

Charles?

The sig image is hosted @ imageshack, surely a company like this would have it's own webspace/domain name.

Good questions though, whoever wrote it obviously clued up on the game and mapping.

yea, I must admit I'd like to know a little more before I waste my time and effort of answering those questions

I really want to answer this, but havent had the time to sit down and give it the attention it deserves yet. I will get to it. Just want you to know that there is interest.

@ Those how wanna know if this is for real before answering.... I'd say give the feedback Even though this was all crap and nothing was ever to happen, it is a good base for mappers (and future ones) on what is liked or expected by the community
Just my humble opinion ^^

Yeah, for sure, this is a good initiative. We already have threads about what makes good competitive maps from a mapper's technical viewpoint and from a player's strategic viewpoint. Since they're both kinda theoretical, however, this additional input from various players about their personal preferences seems what may be lacking. Asking specific questions makes the chances of getting some response that much better. I'll answer the survey myself once I feel I have time enough to do it justice.

Hopefully all this information (not just the survey) can be put together in a more accessible format on the wiki.

OK I hope its not too late to answer this, but finally have the time to devote the time it deserves.


Question 1
What is your current favorite map? Why?

Probably Caverns_r1. It has great flow, good weapons placement, some cool jumps to challenge some of us advanced players, its not cramped.


Question 2
What is your current least favorite map? Why?

I cant point to anyone map as my "least favorite". I am not crazy about killbox maps, or what I call Point and Shoot maps.
Really any map that does not flow well, is cramped, has alot of dead ends, too few weapons to get at when you spawn (too many can be bad too), and forced low gravity (I believe that should be up to the server admin to decide what gravity level to play the map at and not have to be present when the map comes up to change it to normal). Bad frame rates are also a problem in some maps. That said, there are a lot of good maps out there that now have bad frame rates and make them almost unplayable. I find that sad more than anything else. I am not very fussy about most maps and to see these maps rejected due to bad fps when maybe an update can restore them is sad.


Question 3
What elements would you like to see more of in future maps?
Good flow, large enough for 4v4 competition buy also playable as a pub map with 16 players. Jumps (not jump pads but areas the player can jump themself) are always fun, and can give access to areas via different routes.

Question 4
How many props do you like to see in a 1v1/2v2/4v4 map?
I like having some props around because I really like the grav gun, but there shouldnt be so many that you end up tripping over them all the time. Its hard to say exactly how many because it really depends on the size of the map. Some people say dm_lostarena could use few more, dm_caverns could probably use a few more (one or two in some areas). dm_lockdown_r3 has enough, but maybe too many barrels in some places.


Question 5
What is your opinion on the following game movement tools?
- Jump pad (func_door/func_button)
Jump pads that depend on the players ability to hit the jump right can be annoying.
- Walkable ramps
Like them
- Water
Like it
- Stairs
Good as long as you dont get humg up on them (some map makers make them like ramps but they look like stairs).
- Elevators (slower than jump pads)
As long as they work, and dont injure or kill me when I get on them (if I get under it, well thats my fault).
- Teleporters (with or without telefragging)
Like them
- Ladders
Hate the ones I get stuck on, the ones that are smooth are fine
- Sliding ramps (as seen in some "surfing" maps for Counter-Strike™)
Not sure how good this would be for competative play
- Boost ramp (ramps that launch you into the air and accelerate you with great speed)
Probably fun in a pub wouldnt like in a competative map
- Ice floor (slippery, frictionless, or pushy floors that will accelerate you towards one direction or push you away)
Lots of people arent crazy about this because it ruins movement.
Remember, you do not need to answer upon all questions if you wish to. Your opinion is important to us.
If you are going to have a dynamic map, with good game play, IMO you need to have different levels of play (ie vertical relief: 2nd floors, 3rd floors, etc).
Playing all on one level can be boring.


Question 6
What are your opinions upon putting a power weapon (Rocket Launcher in this case) in a 1v1 map? Upon putting multiple Rocket Launchers in a single map designed for 4v4+ combat? Having some risk on achieving the weapon (as seen in Lockdown), or having little (as seen in Lost Village)?
This really depends on the size of the map. Some maps are really too small to get the rpg. If the map is big enough, two rpg might not be bad. IMO it should never be placed high in the map because of the obvious advantage that gives. There should always be some risk to get it, makes it worth going for and makes it easier to defend against.


Question 7
What are your favorite weapons? Why?
Gravity Gun - its so versatile and can be used many was and if there are enough props in the map, it can be a great backup weap.
Magnum/xbow - great distance weaps. You need to learn good timing and mouse control for both but in different ways. Both take skill to use.
Shotty - great weap for close up combat
Pulse rifle - good for both close combat and longer range. The orbs fire also adds a different element.
Frag Grenades - lots of fun with a grav gun

I like most if not all the weapons in DM, because there is a place for them.


Question 8
What are your least favorite weapons? Why?
RPG when its spammed, but fun to mag shot the holder if you can do it and not die.
Could see having only 1 or 2 rounds in the gun when you pick it up and then you have to go find the other rounds scattered around the map
smg nades when they are spammed. They too should be scattered around the map with maybe one place you can get 2 away from the rpg to help counter an rpg

The main thing with weapons is placement relative to each other. One area of the map should not be made so powerful that it makes it impossible to overcome. That has a lot to do with both map design and weapons placement.


Question 9
What is the furthest PTrain level that you can jump on a consistent and comfortable basis? Assume that you would be able to reliably make this jump under a stressful condition such as during a match.

Ive made it to 10, but in a match, I can probably only jump 7 with any consistency.


Question 10
Some of us who have played Team Fortress™ 2 have greatly enjoyed certain maps, most notably Gold Rush and Granary. Upon possible experimentation with the I/O system, we have concluded a hybrid of these two maps' gameplay modes. Would you be interested in playing a map based upon objectives and teamwork rather than deathmatch and frag count?

Not sure, I am not really all that crazy about TF2 mainly due to the lack of advanced movement. There is a Capture the Flag mod of DM, its pretty much dead, not many people play it anymore and no one plays it competatively any more.


Question 11
What do you ultimately look for in a map? What makes a map good, fun, memorable, and playable for countless ages?

Good flow and game play, good weapons placement, good fps, nice textures are always good if the performance of the map does not suffer because of it, normal gravity (600). Good lighting is also key, maps that are too dark are a pain to play.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to comment.