A Question for Players (Not Only Mappers)

Charles

2007-06-07 09:53:01

What do you guys like to see in a map? When I search for a GOOD map, I always search for these qualities:
- Great visuals. Some maps can be rather ugly and still be fun, but good visuals will always be remembered if complemented with great gameplay. (Aim_arena_b1-4 is one example, although it is ****ing ugly.)
- Smooth gameplay (good frame rates, no sudden stutters outdoors, etc.)
- I prefer outdoor maps since indoor maps seem to feel clustered and orb-happy.
- Ambience or sound effects of some sort! I don't like a completely silent map.
- Balanced gameplay. This involves good weapon placement, having multiple but not too much paths rather than a single choke point or ultimate king point like Overwatch (with the exception of King of the Hill-type maps, of course).
- Fast-paced. Some CTF maps seem to suffer from slow gameplay. This is often because the mapper did something really stupid like placing 200-suit chargers in the spawn room, adding one slow respawning orb that everybody in your team waits in line for, or adding no real weapons.
- Replayable. This map needs something that makes me want to play again. Perhaps it involves a lot of skill, whether it's movement or aim-based. If the map offers a gameplay that allows for all weapons to shine, that means it has variety and would be fun for a long time. For example, sniper or RPG-heavy maps get old really fast. A good map offers all kinds of action, close-ranged or far away, anti-RPG and RPG-friendly, etc.
- Not too noob-friendly. Just play ctf_2fort, well, warpath, or rock2. Those maps really irk me at times. You start out with 100 suit, which makes weapons like Crossbow obsolete. Sometimes, you start out with RPG and even 2 or 3 SMG nades. That's all people use. Noobs have a great time because it takes a while to die while you can dish out heavy damage if you're in a good camping spot or highly elevated place, but the map's unbearable to play when that's all you do.
- Something new or unusual. Doesn't necessarily have to be revolutionary, but I want to make sure I'm not playing Lockdown Two or something. Whether it's the inclusion of jump pads to allow for multi-levelled gameplay or a strange, yet fun map like a puzzle-based deathmatch one, there's something exciting I want. CTF maps were often a few years ago when they were new to the HL2 community, but most new CTF maps just play like recycled garbage. Same goes for all those damn Killbox maps.

I sometimes compare HL2DM maps to Starcraft maps. Deathmatch is like Starcraft Melee (which is pretty much vanilla gameplay), while game modes like Capture the Flag, Football, etc. seem to be like UMS. Deathmatch generally improves all your skills, while those "UMS" maps only make you good at whatever type of map that is. I tend to prefer maps that can do both. HL2CTF MOD maps are a good example because they have DM-style respawns and weapon placements. However, most HL2DMCTF suffer from 100-armor-full-weapons syndrome, which is something I really frown on. Same goes for Starcraft maps, of course. :)

Copied and pasted from a previous post I made:
Hey guys, just thought that I'd like to announce a new project I'm working on. The tentative title for it will be king_air_b1, and as its name might suggest, it will put an emphasis on aerial combat. It will be catered to pro players even more so than Revolution and Connectors, so I'm warning you that learning to move like fluid in it won't be so easy and will require practice.

First and foremost, this map will use a modified version of Kusa's king of the hill game mode. The game ends when a team wins three rounds, and there will be no timelimit (I expect games to end any time between 20-50 minutes). In order to win, you must take out "300" points from the enemy team. To do this, you must hold a King Point, which will be on a raised platform. Simply, you tag it by walking over it. For each second you control the point, your enemy's team will lose a point. Once a point is tagged, you can not tag it until 15 seconds have passed. One thing I am considering is whether to use normal DM spawns, or to create territorial-specific spawns. For example, rather than spawning in a random area, holding the point may make you spawn to a base on the same island, while those who must tag it will spawn on a distant island.

The map structure will be something uncommon. Basically, it'll be a bunch of floating islands, or big platforms, with some kinds of obstacles in them. To ensure balance and less choke points, each island will be a floating battle arena with some sort of purpose. For example, an island with tricky terrain that requires all sorts of skill jumps and is open to snipers from all angles may hold the RPG, while the one on the opposite side may carry the hill with the King point on it. These islands may be connected via destructable/indestructable bridges, skate rinks, speed ramps, jump pads, and/or perhaps even teleporters. In simpler terms, think of some of the outer-space Quake maps. Yeah. There you go.

Jump padding, speed skating, teleport piping, and boost ramping aren't the only skills you'll need to go through the map with ease and grace. I'm also putting a small emphasis on ramp jumping (or trimping) as it will be required to reach heights (57+ units) you can not achieve normally through a crouch jump. It may allow you to reach a choke point quickly or give you a quick edge during the heat of battle. Maybe these elevated places carry goodies like SMG nades or some health. Explosive jumping will have their place as well. Because these islands are a bit segmented and time is always ticking in a King map, you may want to sometimes grenade jump, SMG nade jump, or even rocket jump from platform to platform. Perhaps you can even rocket jump onto the King point itself? There may also even be viable teammate-orb boost spots, although this will be a bit hard to design a map for. Oh, and be sure to practice with every weapon (except the pistol, that's a lost cause). Every weapon will have their purpose.

There are several reasons why I'm taking this aerial/platforming approach. One of the main reasons is skill distinction. With all these little tricks requiring keen timing and aiming at fast-moving, airborne enemies, your skill will definitely shine and contrast among lesser players. This would make the map more competetive and truly show who's more skilled, rather than an orb-fest or RPG-spammy map where all you need is coordination and not much aiming.

Another reason is for weapon balance. For example, in a map where you're pretty much on foot all the time, the RPG dominates because the enemy will simply guide the rocket onto your foot and you'll die. This is a bit harder in elevated situations since you can not simply aim at their feet. Rather, you'll have to guide your rocket onto the sky and then onto their body, which is very hard. Plus, there's the fact that they may jump or totally dodge out of your rocket's way. With so much differently elevated platforms and such, the RPG will be not quite as overpowered in King_Air. It'll still dominate on the grounds, but if you're fighting an enemy who's jump padding his way around the whole map, chances are that you'll want to resort to another weapon than try and keep the rocket laser on him for that long. The orb will probably be more used for teammate boosting, since this will be an outdoors map, although it can still be used as a deadly one-hit killer if fast boosted. Because it's not all compacted like in Lockdown, the orb will require much more enemy prediction like with a Crossbow and it's very hard to time it to hit airborne enemies. The Magnum will likely be the most versatile weapon, deadly in all ranges, capable of sniping or taking out airborne enemies, and of course, it's a hitscan weapon so it's instant. The shotgun will be easy to get, so it'll be your most used weapon in close-quarters combat. The crossbow may not always kill, but once you're skilled enough to learn the momentum of a jump pad-launched player, you can consistently hit airborne enemies with it and literally knock them out of the map or severely damage them and set them up for fall damage as well, for a total of 110 damage. That, or use it in conjunction with a shotgun. SMG nades will, like the RPG, be great on ground and air-to ground, but good luck trying to hit airborne (not really impossible, though) and highly-elevated enemies with it. Props will likely return, and if they are shot out of the map, they will respawn like when a prop goes inside the water of 2fort (excluding explosive barrels). All in all, it'll just be really hard to "whore" the power weapons in this map.

One thing I might consider adding is a fan, just like in Lockdown. However, rather than sucking you in into a slicy death, it may push you out of the map into the abyss where you'll fall and die. Of course, if I stick with this idea, the fan might be guarding either the King point or the RPG. Maybe not.

The map will have different winning music from the ordinary Rebels cheering and Combine drone sound in CTF maps. The tentative songs so far are the Suite Song (the sad song that plays when Rebels win in King Lost Village) into a World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade - Silver Moon Sity and Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Menu 1 (http://www.smashbros.com and check the music section). If you have any suggestions, post here. I do not want tracks any longer than 1 minute and thirty seconds because otherwise it'll be too big in size. I also prefer a type of easy-to-ears music that many people can enjoy.

Last, but definitely not least, this map will feature turrets. And no, not AI-controlled turrets. Yes, human-controlled turrets. A 100%-in turret will be the mortar, which Tuna and I love to call, the HEAVEN CANNON. Like in HL2 single player (the part when you're storming in the old museum), the mortar will extract high-energy power from the sky and unleash it at wherever you may aim. Other possibilities are rocket-launching turrets, an AR2 turret, and even a flaming cauldron.

If you've got any questions, concerns, or ideas, just post here and I'll reply!

- Charles Kim

badinfluence

2007-06-07 18:13:29

I cannot stress how much I hate highly textured maps.

I get like 10 fps on them. :[

Walking Target

2007-06-07 21:15:59

Interesting post, where can we get your maps from?

poconut

2007-06-07 21:25:22

Most important things for me are even weapon placement, ease of movement (no useless props just for decoration, like bottles), and make weapons like the rpg hard to get.

Charles

2007-06-08 00:08:21

My two maps, ctf_connectors_b2 and ctf_revolution_b4, are occasionally played in the HAX CTF server, and very rarely played in others. The server's settings is 500 gravity and has fast weapon/item respawn times often fully populated, so your experiences may be a bit different from normal.

King_air_b1 is still under development and open to testers/suggestions.

Scar

2007-06-08 00:12:41

Hey Charles, you know I'll test any map of yours for ya.

The thing about Charles' maps is that they are different from others and involve some advanced techniques to get the full experience from some of his creations.

Can't wait for the new one map to come out, looking forward to it.

ninojman

2007-06-08 00:52:55

sounds cool

what about OBJ maps? They did some crazy stuff with those maps

Scar

2007-06-08 05:18:42

Oh, I was comparing his maps (CTF) to other CTF maps.