dm_lockdown_r4 feature feed back

Well here is the latest compile of lockdown r4. The main issue right now is that a 2nd Ar2 was added to the bathroom in the barrel room to speed up the map play as people can come out of the bathroom faster. Also it serves a useful purpose of being a redundant weapon in the even the Ar2 stops spawning mid match which really kills your chances of getting taking back the front of the map.

http://files.filefront.com/dm+lockdown+ ... einfo.html

Have a look constructive critizism is welcome.

yay r4 finally hehe, im a bit nervous about the 2nd ar2, shotty is much more powerful, peopel who know how to use it well will agree with me.

Will give feedback once I test it though (1v1)

finally i have a look when I come home about the ar2 emm not too sure about that but I have a look to see if there is a prob but on weapons not respawning you could allways add these commands to the match config its a trick to prevent this from happening not sure if you guys use it or if its not allowed but worked fine for us.

mp_restartgame 1;
waitb;mp_weaponstay 0

some lights added and wider new hall are nice

Dont like those silly tabs in RPG vent but its better than r3 just, like how RPG is positioned only i had a little trouble geting it out, do you have to use grenades or is there another way?
Its very bright in places almost full bright it seems.
I dont understand why you have to keep revising it.

2nd ar2 needs to go...

keefy wrote:Dont like those silly tabs in RPG vent but its better than r3 just, like how RPG is positioned only i had a little trouble geting it out, do you have to use grenades or is there another way?

Use your gravgun

keefy wrote:Dont like those silly tabs in RPG vent but its better than r3 just, like how RPG is positioned only i had a little trouble geting it out, do you have to use grenades or is there another way?
Its very bright in places almost full bright it seems.
I dont understand why you have to keep revising it.

If it doesnt come out the first time with grav gun, shoot an xbow bolt in there, that usually works.

Im on the fence regarding the AR2 and have been since I saw it there. While I agree it might allow people to leave that area a bit faster if they are the type that insists on waiting for orbs and SMG nades, the AR2 is harder to get a quick kill than the shotty. Need to hit them 3x (iirc) in the head and thats if they have only 100 health. Shotty can take down people with 100 health in 1 shot if you know how and 2 if not. So IMO I think not having the shotty is worse than the extra AR. I personally have not seen the AR not respawn but I have not played the map as much as many of you.

IMO the biggest problem and I know Fearsome will disagree, is that you have all the long range weapons in the charger end of the map which allows people to camp corner and back mag and pick people off coming down long hall or the longer view areas which no matter which way you travel from from AR2 to the other side of the map, you are exposed to almost of them. Unless the guy is extremely lucky with a frag grenade or an orb there really is no counter to a camper at corner or in back mag. If the camper is at corner, it completely negates long hall and the lower path that follows long hall because you cant get past the mag, leaving you only new hall as a possible route to getting to any of the other weapons.

In any case you need something there because your options are limited in that end of the map.

emmm I have not seeen the map yet but AR2 is useless weapon with out orbs your actually more likely to stay in that area for waiting for the orbs to spawn by that time its all pointless because the ar2 will spawn right next to them at the same time. Shotgun there i tho was a good idea a good main weapon to have. But I surgest putting a crossbow there there is only one of them on the map.

SND wrote:But I surgest putting a crossbow there there is only one of them on the map.

You're neglecting the point of the AR2 being there, it's there because the original AR2 sometimes fails to spawn.

Why doesnt the AR2 spawn sometimes?
I don't think adding another weapon on the chance one doesnt spawn is the answer.

Paradox wrote:IMO the biggest problem and I know Fearsome will disagree, is that you have all the long range weapons in the charger end of the map which allows people to camp corner and back mag and pick people off coming down long hall or the longer view areas which no matter which way you travel from from AR2 to the other side of the map, you are exposed to almost of them. Unless the guy is extremely lucky with a frag grenade or an orb there really is no counter to a camper at corner or in back mag. If the camper is at corner, it completely negates long hall and the lower path that follows long hall because you cant get past the mag, leaving you only new hall as a possible route to getting to any of the other weapons.

In any case you need something there because your options are limited in that end of the map.

^^^100% agree
and yes fearsome will disagree
I have been asking for this since r2
I have never been a fan of having a advantage based on the luck of the spawn, charger end of the maps is so over powered its ridiculous. I have always wanted a mag in the back and I have always heard that it would make people camp back there. I think it would be the opposite, I would come out instantly if I had a mag and a shotty.

2 cents




If you placed a magnum at the ar2 side of the map, what exactly would be the incentive to leave? you would have everything you need right there... Also I disagree with the thought that camping magnum side by the charger or whatever is un-counterable. It's fairly easy, yes they might get a headshot on you but you can usually get off an orb, and if you're good with orbs that's enough. I love the new ld. 2 ar2's helps getting back in the fight so much quicker, and yes sometimes people may wait for double orb equip, but then the other team has rocket, 100/200, etc. In my experience playing with the 2nd ar2, in 2v2 at least, it works for one person to grab the ar2 and orbs, the other gets the shotty nades and ar2 but no orbs. then you can get orbs at xbow or stairs. In 4v4 play this also would add to the teamplay aspect, as 2 people can get ar2's and 2 can get the magnums or whatever. meh.

end 2 cents

I still don't understand something: If LD is such a terrible map to begin with, why all the revisions?

Seems revisions to better maps may be a better use of time?!?!

keefy wrote:I dont understand why you have to keep revising it.

1. Many bugs in original lockdown that players wont hesitate to exploit (charging through floor, breaking the plug at the back mag etc.)

2. Slow crowbar on linux server meant we needed to double equip melee for matches to be fair.

3. After slow crowbar was fixed, double equipped melee causes much higher incidence of player crashes (usually during mp_restartgame), so we needed a revision with double melee taken out.

4. Most players requested speed crawling be taken out since such easy RPG access made the map unbalanced. It has taken several revisions to reach a solid solution to the problem.

Other changes are personal preference, but they are not really what is driving the revisions.

The Argumentalizer wrote:I still don't understand something: If LD is such a terrible map to begin with, why all the revisions?

Seems revisions to better maps may be a better use of time?!?!

2nd that

Plus the fact that almost every server insists on running the original map and not the revision. Personally I don't play the map, not because I don't like it, but because some people have literally spent years playing it and know every nook and cranny, sound etc etc giving them a massive advantage over me. For me to lessen that advantage I would have to put in a lot of practise into the map and I simple can't be arsed when there's lots of better maps out there.

still appreciate what you're doing fearsome

I had a look I try and point things out that i like and dislike.

Things a like:

-Removal some bugs
-You can see vent from mag and shot inside rpg
-One thing i been asking for was replacing the prop bars with brush work which is great no more thro nads thro them and having them bounce back in your face 9/10 times.
-raw poster

Things I don't like:

-Those brackets or speed bumps i would say are anoying but what do you expect im used to jump jumping allong and then staright speed crawl and out with rpg in 6sec.
-Lighting is strange down the bathroom barrels area is all yellow and horrible but when I have my high settings on it looks k but with low it looks worse than the original with low graphics .
-Pulse rifle is useless especially in a 1v1 that weapon placement is hardly going to be useful to anyone. I would prefer a shotgun (tho there is too much shotgun used on this map anyway) or a crossbow perfect for bouncing off those corridor walls (but im a crossbow junkie what you expect).

In all I liked R3 from the beginning but that fan and those crashes put me off it. This tho there is improvements I like in r4 especially those bars but I doubt I will use it since that many down my end like speed crawling for the rpg. actually that pretty much it no speed crawl but its K we can continue using original lock tho I would prefer if just left the normal vent in a cu version.

don't know if any of you missed my last post add
mp_restartgame 1
mp_weaponstay 0
All weapons should be available tho out the whole game on every restart with these commands at the end of a config in this order last time i checked the CAL config you guys did not have it in there and most games i had with US servers end up missing a weapon where as over here we hardly have the prob since i added this command to the CU config.

The Argumentalizer wrote:I still don't understand something: If LD is such a terrible map to begin with, why all the revisions?

Seems revisions to better maps may be a better use of time?!?!

agreed.

Interesting discussion.

You gotta ask though, is the map supposed to be balanced? Or is there supposed to be a strong side?

In Quake duels you have one player that has map control and the other that tries to gain map control. They typically fight from different areas of the map, much like the two sides of lockdown. If two equally skilled players face off, and both play equally, the one with map control position will always win, even shutting out their opponent. If you balance out the map completely then you take away the entire strategy of maintaining control of one side. Then if you have two equally skilled players/teams face off you will have a tie game.

From my team dm experience it won't matter much if the extra shotgun is replaced by an ar2. That side of the map will still be weak, as its supposed to be. And I can't count how many times I've seen that thing disappear part way through a match too. So annoying.

Only thing I would be for is taking the second crossbow out of the RPG vent area, because that makes that side far too strong considering the fascination with crossbow bounces. Is that even in there in this revision?


Otherwise in regards to lockdown being a good map or not, atleast how it used be, it was the only map that teamdm was considered to be legit on.

LD is so popular because in the beginign there was only 2 LD & OW and it was a choice between 2 bowls of shit the only difference is the smell sand LD smelt less so got played to death until some good maps came out after a few months and even then players didnt want to migrate becasue they knew LD so well so fellow clan memebers were forced to learn it and so on and so on untilw e are in the position today where many still thinks its a great map.

Tw1tch makes a really good point I think.

lockdown it a quality map it is pretty much part of the game.

The revisions are done to sort key issues with the map thats the whole point of it unless your happy with buggy maps not being being fixed and tweaked to improve game play.

So basically with skill being equal, the player or team that spawns in the charger area of the map has the advantage. The other team or player is basically screwed if they get behind. The whole thing can be over in the first 5 minutes of the match if they cant gain control because they simply dont have the resources to do it if they keep spawning down in the bathroom area, which in my experience is most of the time. So yeah L2K is right, the map could be won or lost by luck of the spawn.

Well, i have heard directly from the guy making all these revisions that LD is horrible and only popular because it is played so much.
Which, i STILL don't understand all the revisions.

If LD is a quality map, as some say, and what i think, then why all the revisions!?!?!
See how that works.

Paradox wrote:So basically with skill being equal, the player or team that spawns in the charger area of the map has the advantage. The other team or player is basically screwed if they get behind. The whole thing can be over in the first 5 minutes of the match if they cant gain control because they simply dont have the resources to do it if they keep spawning down in the bathroom area, which in my experience is most of the time. So yeah L2K is right, the map could be won or lost by luck of the spawn.

Yeah, thats the same argument you will find in the Quake Live forums by the top players. Whats worse in Quake is that the spawn system isn't completely random, so your position can also make them spawn in certain places.

It's just the nature of a dm game that has been converted into a duel/teamdm game. There is no end all solution. (Unless you put opposite teams in box with all weapons, and every time someone dies everyone respawns into the same spot).

Love it or leave it.

If you do not like lockdown or do not want it revised you don’t really need to say anything. The point has been outlined lockdown is a favorite map among many but the map is really not very good for competition in its native form. The revised version addresses that.

Lockdown is imbalanced and that is the way it plays because the desire to control the front of the map is what drives players to go to the front of the map it is the need to have an advantage. That is not what is on trial here. The question is just will the 2nd AR2 cause people to camp more in the bathroom or so significantly change the play of the game it is not liked? If you do not subscribe to that thought line of how a map should be played that is fine, there are maps in CAL like lost arena which play flat and instead keeps the map really small to force conflict.

As said since r3 came use of the shotgun has gone insane for the very reason that every map has loads of shotguns people have found that being an expert with the shotgun is very lucrative, as poor billy says why bother using anything else? If you can one shot kill with a weapon you don’t need to fight over then you don’t really need to go risk taking rockets and orbs and other things. The problem is all the maps were made and balanced for a less powerful shotgun. They were thrown around the map to fill every spot that was left with no thought as to how they would affect game play, because mappers assumed they did not affect it at all. I made that mistake too. If I was remaking lockdown I would have moved one of the 3 shotguns in the front of the map to the bathroom. Maybe that is an option people would like? But adding one extra over the original is no longer a good idea since the weapon is already out numbering any other weapon on the map by twice the amount.

Also the AR2 can be just as deadly as the shotgun if you practice it the same as you practice the shotgun and I am talking without orbs that thing can mow people down. The difference is that most maps have 1 AR2 which people fight over to use the balls. So people hardly practice primary fire since the few times they have the AR2 they are shooting balls.

911 poster back on it pweez?

btw the post is already exist over the fence in back mag room barely seen tho.. lol..

There is a weird thing with the posters. If you play on LD_r3 before you go to r4, many of the old posters show up instead of the new ones. If you exit out of the game and restart it then go to r4 it shows all the right ones. Bizare I know, but has to do with the folder that the decals are in I guess.

Ya the game seems to cache textures and assume that if a map changes the textures do not change even if they are embeded in the map. On any server though you should be able to change the map to dm_zeta_rc2 then change back to dm_lockdown_r4 and see the correct posters. The 911 poster is there if not take a picture you should see one in the new hall.

yea i see the point removing the shotgun and replacing it with the ar2. To kinda of think of it we are better of having it there even tho it is little use of taking a guy with 100 plus 40 suit down the other end it would be pretty handy when you spawn in showers especially when all two weapons are taken.

I like Lockdown simply because it forces you to play and get control of resources than hanging back making less action happening. I remember allot of times when im talking on ts with my m8s on how to take back the main area so this map encourages you teamplay to win the game.

No one complains about not having a weapon in showers anyway and the adding pulse we make little diffrence anyway so I have no trouble with it being there.

Can you list changes that you done from r3 to this just in case any of us have missed somthing such as spawn points or bug fixes.

I've been messing around in it for some hours lately, I think it's a good revision.I've only had one odd clipping problem when I released crouch while bunnyhopping over the explosive barrel that is in the new ar2 room, the barrel that is furthest from that rooms spawn, closest to the bathroom.But I didn't fall through the floor or anything like that I just saw black on my screen for a split second and for all I know that might happen in every lockdown since that barrel hasn't changed, and the odds of releasing crouch at that spot/time again are pretty slim.

The rpg seems too well guarded I'm thinking less fins in the vent.

Also the AR2 can be just as deadly as the shotgun if you practice it the same as you practice the shotgun and I am talking without orbs that thing can mow people down.

That's true. If you aim it properly it can take you down pretty fast, and it is really annoying because your screen goes all red and shaky. I have managed to kill people with 100 hp only with pistol, all you gotta do is practice :]
I like the revision btw, and the rpg vent change was pretty creative, even though it slows things a bit more, it's a nice change IMO.

I find AR2 is best used in small bursts if you do that the recoil is much less than holding fire down until reload.

The extra ar2 I don't think makes too much difference other than I think its more important to have a shotgun at all times, and probably prefer the shotgun in its place.

The RPG vent I don't like at all. I find it glitchy to get thru and slower than the original normal crawled time, seemed like I was getting stuck occasionally on a fin which isn't much different than getting stuck by the fan.

Couldn't you just leave the vent open and put a button in the fan room that when activated would drop the rpg in after a few seconds went by? The drop time could be equal to the amount of time it takes to do a normal speed entrance, Im not a mapper so don't know if that's possible.

Another idea I had would be to put a trigger in the back side of vent exit (much like the one that sets of the alarm) so that once you pass it and set it off you have the rpg drop again in a set amount of seconds equal to a normal speed entrance.

Either one of these solutions if they are possible would keep the game play as intended originally without speed crawling making any difference, without introducing the possibility of getting stuck or hung up for more time in the vent (which really sucks)

I would have switched the vent room x-bow with the new ar2.

One of the complaints I recieved was that due to duck sprint the process of coming out of the rocket was no longer of much risk. The idea behind this was to reintroduce that risk verse just flying out in a split second. When you say you are getting stuck on in there do you mean permanently?

no just momentarily stuck. Hung up if you will and it seems worse when you have a higher ping.
It just seems dumb to risk going in there if you are going to take longer than normal to get out, which is what happens if you get hung up coming out.
Its hard to describe but you can get hung up kinda like you can on a rail or something.

i think the main problem with speed crawling the rpg is that it can be gotten way to fast and there is no risk, however if the process of getting it took the same amount of time that it would if you did a normal crawl it would negate the fact that you speed crawled in or out. The timing is critical, that is what allows players to defend against it once they hear the alarm. How fast they come out is not important if they had to wait for the rpg to drop, which in turn allowed players to reach that area with orbs, smg nades what ever to kill the player coming out or to be waiting for him to come out.

Lockdown_r4 would be a great map without the tunnel-brackets in my opinion.

In europe we play always the classical lockdown map, and we don't have any problems.

It's true, the rpg is very easy to get, but if the opponents hear the sound- they know your position, and shoot balls to the mag/rpg-area...

So it's dangerous enough to get RPG.

(btw. it takes already longer to get rpg because of the changed rpg-place)

yea with this you have to come out of the tunnel to grab the rpg and restart the sprint crouch thing from a stationary which takes allot longer compared original lock which was. starfe jump hold duck and sprint > on landing release duck. grab rpg with grav gun in tunnel and out you go. with stand still you have to get your distance right and release the buttons at the right time you basicly a sitting duck if you do not do it right.

what you could done was in the tunnel raise the high of the ceiling in the middle to the point where the model is standing up so when you speed crawl you will stand up and stop since your not holding duck. That would force guys to use regular method.

SND wrote:yea with this you have to come out of the tunnel to grab the rpg and restart the sprint crouch thing from a stationary which takes allot longer compared original lock which was. starfe jump hold duck and sprint > on landing release duck. grab rpg with grav gun in tunnel and out you go. with stand still you have to get your distance right and release the buttons at the right time you basicly a sitting duck if you do not do it right.

what you could done was in the tunnel raise the high of the ceiling in the middle to the point where the model is standing up so when you speed crawl you will stand up and stop since your not holding duck. That would force guys to use regular method.

I tried that too and it really hardly slowed people down and then they were able to jump and duck to evade shots you had to make the high gap HUGE in order to stop people. The duck sprint can fly through a ton of obstacles. And for anything you can do to block it do you end up breaking various xbow and orb bounces people have or do you make it easier for the person to evade death?
Also it seems things have really changed in Europe most clans we played would insult us for touching the RPG once now they desire no risk RPG grabs. I think in North America the general concensus is that the fan in lockdown was designed to kill people who went for the rocket with duck sprint it nearly never happens. The current way I have it set up is the only way so far I have found that returns the play of lockdown around the fan to something "close" to what it was before everyone was ducksprinting.

What if you just made the vent take an immediate right turn, then three lefts and one last right to get into the rpg area.

Do you have to strafe jump into the sprint duck? Because with the immediate right you would essentially just sprint duck into a wall, then start again at 0 velocity, already crouched. So speed ducking would be impossible. Would be far less messy then a bunch of frustrating fins and a weirdly located rpg.

I think you can turn corners once you speed crawl?

You can can turn with duck sprint, litterally nothing stops it. There is one solution we have that would probably stop most people but the duck sprint theoretically works so people would probably figure a way to exploit it. Ko Tao told me about a physics velocity limiting entity and duck sprint litterally ignored it. Some people have said just make the vent REALLY long or put tons of curves in it. But those solutions change peoples orb bounces and xbow shots the current solution has no effect on physics objects only players so you can pull off all your old shots. And once you get to the point where you have 5 turns as in your solution what have you gained over the fins you still have to dodge around all those turns its just now you wont see the guy coming out till hes right there.

Found a bird in r4!!

Ah crap, now I have to go look for it.....

let me guess without looking first, prison light source opening?

The bird was in r3

Ah crap....now I have to go look for it..

Does the bird have big boobs?

Ummm since I don't run that way, those type of noticeables don't generally attract my attention....

I found the bird! Aw... Nice lil birdy

Fearsome* wrote:The bird was in r3

Unbelievable.

any one has this one their fast DL? i can't get it from the link. thx

val

hhmm

nvm jelly set me up

So, the euro league manages to play with the standard vent + speedcrawling and not have any problems... sounds like theres a good chance that were trying to fix something that, once the metagame evolves to deal with it, isnt broken.

Also, a second ar is definitely not needed. The map is already a mad random orb fest; why add the potential to double it? Everyone whos in favor is only looking at bathroom spawns having a minimally better chance of escape, and not the fact that the charger players can load up on orbs then both rush the bathroom simultanously (2v2) and suddenly have the potential to cough out 6 orbs at once. The second shotgun was fine, though if excessive shotguns is becoming a problem, the extra xbow (the one currently in the vent) could be put here instead. And i dont see an xbow as being reason enough to just camp the bathroom forever; xbow vs 100/200 is a joke, and its not great over long range like a mag either. Itd most likely be a fine replacement for that old shotgun, and help keep bathroom teams able to attack without unbalancing the map.

Id like the extra passage gone too, as it adds alot more randomness to the map (especially 1v1) and removes the ability to control or need to fight over the central choke point, which was a defining feature of the map and, imo, the only thing that made 1v1ing on such a large map acceptable.

And lastly, id like to propose just returning to the original lockdowns layout / pickups, with the only changes being clipping and bug fixes. Not only would this end the community division around this map, itd also have a very good chance of seeing it played on public servers and leagues besides cal, where the revised versions have never really caught on.

Your comment about removing the new hall I think is a terrible idea. With only 2 options as to where to go, 2 players, or even just 1 can lock the map down completely by strategic camping. It's a bit better with the new hall, as you have to camp closer to orb range.

[EYE] Valar wrote:nvm jelly set me up

?????

[zman42 wrote: Your comment about removing the new hall I think is a terrible idea. With only 2 options as to where to go, 2 players, or even just 1 can lock the map down completely by strategic camping. It's a bit better with the new hall, as you have to camp closer to orb range.

I agree with this 100%. The hall is a MUCH needed addition to gameplay and does not detract from 1v1s on that map (and yes I have done several), and in addition it greatly aids team play on that map by giving more areas to travel from one end of the map to the other that are not exposed to long distance mag, xbow and rpg shots.

I agree with Ko.

Take out the whole passage, but I would just want it taken out for 1v1.

BIRD I FOUND IT

The new hall gotta stay IMO, and I don't mind the second ar2 HOWEVER, I'd rather get a xbow there as Ko said ..
a xbow in the bathroom would be pretty cool :]

I like the light and graphs you have done in this map i realy do it looks nice

the normal lockdown has a certain strategy and my personal opinion in this is you fucked that up if you play this map in teamplay and you have a good control over the map than you give the other team to much changes to get back in the game??

and the reason you gave up for the ar2 deosn't spawn can happen to any weapon and it has to do with restarting the server. on clans united we us on our cfg mp_weaponstay 1 and after restart mp_weaponstay 0 till now it helps

and why did you put in an extra shotgun in r3 i know there are a lot of shotguns in lockdown but that isn't an reason to put 1 extra ?? there are enough weapons in that area and if you play it smart on teamplay than 1 picks up shotgun with ammo 1 picks up the ar2 with altfire and 1 picks up smg grenades and they can try to fight back

that speed crawling is a bug yeah it is i know but if i can use it everybody can there are so much bugs in hl2dm that we use anyway so why not this 1 and since lockdown is a map balls versus rpg. people wouldnt go for rpg as much in any other map cuz it takes so much time to get 1 and it plays a sound so everybody knows your there and they can change there strategy to it or am i wrong??..

and ok that hallway is kinda nice since it give's you an extra option to come in that area and make's the map more fun since you have to look more ways when your holding the crossbow spot.

Ghostface Killah wrote:I like the light and graphs you have done in this map i realy do it looks nice

the normal lockdown has a certain strategy and my personal opinion in this is you fucked that up if you play this map in teamplay and you have a good control over the map than you give the other team to much changes to get back in the game??

and the reason you gave up for the ar2 deosn't spawn can happen to any weapon and it has to do with restarting the server. on clans united we us on our cfg mp_weaponstay 1 and after restart mp_weaponstay 0 till now it helps

and why did you put in an extra shotgun in r3 i know there are a lot of shotguns in lockdown but that isn't an reason to put 1 extra ?? there are enough weapons in that area and if you play it smart on teamplay than 1 picks up shotgun with ammo 1 picks up the ar2 with altfire and 1 picks up smg grenades and they can try to fight back

that speed crawling is a bug yeah it is i know but if i can use it everybody can there are so much bugs in hl2dm that we use anyway so why not this 1 and since lockdown is a map balls versus rpg. people wouldnt go for rpg as much in any other map cuz it takes so much time to get 1 and it plays a sound so everybody knows your there and they can change there strategy to it or am i wrong??..

and ok that hallway is kinda nice since it give's you an extra option to come in that area and make's the map more fun since you have to look more ways when your holding the crossbow spot.

I could barely read that for lack of punctuation, but I still disagree with you. Having the original lockdown = me getting rpg and back out in a second, so unless you're right there by the rpg the original vent is basically like letting the rocket spawn in the middle of the floor in front of charger.

I think this is like the billionth time that someone who plays in clans united has told us to use something in our config that's ALREADY there. It still doesnt prevent the AR2 from gibbing out and going rogue

well then the ar2 must h8 you lot and like us.

Maybe they spam it too much

I like Dallas's solution to rpg speed crawl better than the current r4 solution. Can anyone speed crawl that by jumping and timing it just right? I haven't done it yet, but then again I haven't spent hours trying either.

Yeah, I like that too. It's what Valar did in one of his maps. The problem with that though is that the certain xbow bounces don't work.

I think the best way to fix the rpg in lockdown is to just remove the vent completely. Make it a room with a locked door and you have to push a button to open the door from say the room off to the side or something. Why make it impossible for players that suck at getting it in the first place when you can make it more of a team effort for working the rpg area. Set the door to only be open for a couple of seconds, just enough time for a player standing in front of it to get in. That way it takes 2 to tango.

Sacrifist wrote:I think the best way to fix the rpg in lockdown is to just remove the vent completely. Make it a room with a locked door and you have to push a button to open the door from say the room off to the side or something. Why make it impossible for players that suck at getting it in the first place when you can make it more of a team effort for working the rpg area. Set the door to only be open for a couple of seconds, just enough time for a player standing in front of it to get in. That way it takes 2 to tango.

a few people might about stupid xbow banks that are not that practical to use anyway during the heat of battle in a cal match. I mean I can understand wanting to do a nice bank but come on, how often does it hit, and how often do you really have the opportunity to line that up in a 2v2- 4v4. Seems like theres all this design going into preserving something that isn't that important in the first place.

dallas's solution = the best

We should all take a vote.

L2k wrote:I like Dallas's solution to rpg speed crawl better than the current r4 solution. Can anyone speed crawl that by jumping and timing it just right? I haven't done it yet, but then again I haven't spent hours trying either.

I believe it has been tried... and i can still speed crouch into it consistently. There is no perfect solution. Many ideas have been tried, and all have had bugs or just didn't work. I'm not the biggest fan of the new vent, but until someone has a solid plan, this one isn't all that bad.

I believe it has been tried... and i can still speed crouch into it consistently. There is no perfect solution. Many ideas have been tried, and all have had bugs or just didn't work. I'm not the biggest fan of the new vent, but until someone has a solid plan, this one isn't all that bad.[/quote]

I havn't been able to do it once. I practiced it for about 20 minutes and still couldn't make it.

However the new r4 idea isn't bad I agree. In fact, it requires you to get completely out of the vent, and while you're in there you might as well grab everything else too.

TiGGy wrote:However the new r4 idea isn't bad I agree. In fact, it requires you to get completely out of the vent, and while you're in there you might as well grab everything else too.

Meh, you just like r4 cuz of the boot

and @ Luke, Id like to see a demo of someone doing the speed crawl with dallas's version, until then it hasn't happened.

L2k wrote:

Sacrifist wrote:I think the best way to fix the rpg in lockdown is to just remove the vent completely. Make it a room with a locked door and you have to push a button to open the door from say the room off to the side or something. Why make it impossible for players that suck at getting it in the first place when you can make it more of a team effort for working the rpg area. Set the door to only be open for a couple of seconds, just enough time for a player standing in front of it to get in. That way it takes 2 to tango.

a few people might about stupid xbow banks that are not that practical to use anyway during the heat of battle in a cal match. I mean I can understand wanting to do a nice bank but come on, how often does it hit, and how often do you really have the opportunity to line that up in a 2v2- 4v4. Seems like theres all this design going into preserving something that isn't that important in the first place.

huh? Perhaps Im not quite understanding what you are trying to get across, but my post has nothing to do with xbows lol. Not a whole lot of design here either. Room with a door. Button on wall in the back mag room. Only way in is if a teammate opens it for you. Not a whole lot of design going on if you ask me and it requires something called teamplay lol.

Sacrifist wrote: huh? Perhaps Im not quite understanding what you are trying to get across, but my post has nothing to do with xbows lol. Not a whole lot of design here either. Room with a door. Button on wall in the back mag room. Only way in is if a teammate opens it for you. Not a whole lot of design going on if you ask me and it requires something called teamplay lol.

the post were not really directed at you, and you are coming into this discussion late. Some people wont accept anything other than a vent which can be somewhat like the original where you can make some real low percentage xbow bank and kill someone coming out or in.

Dallas's version lags like hell for me and I hate the floor tiles in the bathroom because they are just too damn small and busy, distracting you from what you are doing. Also while I agree r4 has a bit too many props, I feel Dallas's version doesnt have enough.

I wasnt saying use his map, just his version of the vent fix.

Lockdown sucks.

Scrap the entire map and replace it with a newer one. Stop excluding good maps based on an arbitrary set of rules, and take everything and anything we can get.

Thanks bye.

dallas and fearsome and make




dm_lockdown_ultra_super_duper_r67

rofl

ahem.... I've never been much into teamplay in lockdown... hell, I hardly even play that map cuz every server has the original stupid version. I lag and get stuck everywhere on it, I just can't flow though it, no matter how hard I try. And I've always found the doors too slim.
But I like the _r3 version a lot. I haven't tried this one yet, but from where I see this, the rpg seems fine to me, cuz even high leveled players never seem to find it much important to go for. And if anyone uses it, you still have many corners on the map to turn and get cover. I never felt at all botthered by that weapon in this map, tbh.

I'm not sure where the new Ar2 is, but I think it's not needed, cuz it would turn the map into and random orb fest, like some1 has already mentioned. Imo, the best thing to do in the bathroom/showers zone would be to add an xbow, but probably not in the "left, dark area", as it has already a handful of barrels that are useful to spawns. Maybe in the toylets, somewhere near the exit.
With that, ppl spawning there, wouldn't go out as empty as they usually go, if the orbs or the smg nades are already taken, which I think that could be scattered instead of all together. You can manage with only the shottie, but if you have to fight more than one enemy with only shottie and smg(no nades) it means trouble. And it would probably make the charger place harder to control.

But servers will keep the original version anyway as if the others don't exist... as they do with most maps... dunno why. So, I think all this is for nothing... unfortunately.

voxtex wrote:Lockdown sucks.

Scrap the entire map and replace it with a newer one. Stop excluding good maps based on an arbitrary set of rules, and take everything and anything we can get.

Thanks bye.

Lockdown is a lot better than taking "everything and anything we can get"...where you wind up playing dm_cannon for 4v4 or dm_avalon_b1 where you get stuck in the tunnels, stuck under chargers, and stuck in rocks. ld is close to a perfect map imo, its big enough for 4v4 and connected enough for 1v1 and enough weapons and armor thrown in for whatever. its got great control factor for tdm and its well balanced.

Zman42 wrote:and its well balanced.

that's debatable, as with most control maps the area to control is over powered. Such is the case with lockdown and all of the revisions.

L2k wrote:

Zman42 wrote:and its well balanced.

that's debatable, as with most control maps the area to control is over powered. Such is the case with lockdown and all of the revisions.

I agree, you have very little hope of overcoming the charger end of the map when you spawn repeatedly in bathroom. You have nothing to counter 2 mags and 2 exbows and 1 rpg (all long distance weapons) with. The best you can hope for is a SMG/Shotty combo or a random lucky orb that by some miracle, no one manages to deflect back to you.

Zman42 wrote:

voxtex wrote:Lockdown sucks.

Scrap the entire map and replace it with a newer one. Stop excluding good maps based on an arbitrary set of rules, and take everything and anything we can get.

Thanks bye.

Lockdown is a lot better than taking "everything and anything we can get"...where you wind up playing dm_cannon for 4v4 or dm_avalon_b1 where you get stuck in the tunnels, stuck under chargers, and stuck in rocks. ld is close to a perfect map imo, its big enough for 4v4 and connected enough for 1v1 and enough weapons and armor thrown in for whatever. its got great control factor for tdm and its well balanced.

lolololol 4v4 on lockdown lol.

voxtex wrote:lolololol 4v4 on lockdown lol.

lockdown 4v4 is the biggest joke ever

Paradox wrote:

L2k wrote:

Zman42 wrote:and its well balanced.

that's debatable, as with most control maps the area to control is over powered. Such is the case with lockdown and all of the revisions.

I agree, you have very little hope of overcoming the charger end of the map when you spawn repeatedly in bathroom. You have nothing to counter 2 mags and 2 exbows and 1 rpg (all long distance weapons) with. The best you can hope for is a SMG/Shotty combo or a random lucky orb that by some miracle, no one manages to deflect back to you.

Don't forget that the other team can totally lockdown both choke points by camping them with all their full amour and massive array of weapons.

Apparently too many people love it so we will never see it go away.

L2k wrote:
I agree, you have very little hope of overcoming the charger end of the map when you spawn repeatedly in bathroom. You have nothing to counter 2 mags and 2 exbows and 1 rpg (all long distance weapons) with. The best you can hope for is a SMG/Shotty combo or a random lucky orb that by some miracle, no one manages to deflect back to you.

Don't forget that the other team can totally lockdown both choke points by camping them with all their full amour and massive array of weapons.[/quote]
full armor = worthless against orbs... meh im outa here, if you dont think you can retake ld charger side from bathrooms id be happy to prove you wrong in some scrim or something.

i prefer spawning in bathroom cause all i do is spam orbs and smg nades seems to get the job done at lest for me anyways.

I've just noticed, in my servers list (which only shows servers w/ less than 100 ping) there's little more than 70 servers with lockdown.

Except 3 or 4 private servers (w/ pw), all of them are using the original version of it.

WTF?

Something is soooo very wrong here....

Its one of the if not the first DM map ever released so its what people know the best and people have alot of nostalga for it. Also most if not all servers have it as the default map. So ya you see it a lot. It is also one of the most revised maps out there. The problem with the CAL versions and why you don't see them much is because the are relatively huge (27 mb), they take forever to download unless you have a fast DL and the average gamer is too stupid or lazy to add it to their own map directory.

True. I'm lazy enough to not wait for slow downloads (mostly if it's the sounds of the server).

But I think that if I saw "downloading dm_reallygoodmap_r40" I would stay interested even if it was slow.

But yea, I know, that's only me. If I didn't know what the hell that map was I would go for another.

Btw, that's why I hated gmod from the start. I tried 1 server and it almost took me half an hour to go in.

Skaruts wrote:True. I'm lazy enough to not wait for slow downloads (mostly if it's the sounds of the server).

Put cl_downloadfilter "nosounds" in your auto exec or cfg and you wont be bothered by downloading sounds anymore, just the maps. Best cvar ever!

LOL, I like some sounds, but in the overall I don't get to use more than 1 or 2 that I find funny.
Thanks. Best cvar indeed.

Paradox wrote:Its one of the if not the first DM map ever released so its what people know the best and people have alot of nostalga for it. Also most if not all servers have it as the default map. So ya you see it a lot. It is also one of the most revised maps out there. The problem with the CAL versions and why you don't see them much is because the are relatively huge (27 mb), they take forever to download unless you have a fast DL and the average gamer is too stupid or lazy to add it to their own map directory.

They aren't stupid. They haven't been taught how yet.

ok, I played the map.
One thing I hate is the fan tunnel. It takes years to get inside as it is, with all those... "things" coming out of the tunnel walls. It's supposed to avoid players from sprint-crouching, but as it is I believe ppl will just leave it aside and forget about going there. I will, at least. It's fast-play hostile, imo.

The RPG is in a good place. Forcing players to take the time to get out and pick it.
Also I think that the area under the stairs, beneath the charger room, is too bright.

As for the rest, I think it's pretty good.

One thing I remembered just now: you think you could add a clip to the door in the middle of the long hall? I dunno if it's just me, but I get stuck there often when entering the hall.
(to who comes from the bathroom through the long hall, past the 1st room, 1st exit on the left. It's that door. Can't explain in another way)

Zman42 wrote: I could barely read that for lack of punctuation, but I still disagree with you. Having the original lockdown = me getting rpg and back out in a second, so unless you're right there by the rpg the original vent is basically like letting the rocket spawn in the middle of the floor in front of charger.

man in lostvillage its easy to get in overwatch its easy to get in powerhous its easy to get in resictance its easy to get in underpass its easy to get in lockdown its easy to get my point is its a weapon so make 357 hard to get to and crossbow to and shotgun to and smg grenades to and altfire to its just stupid leave it as it is cuz be honest do you use the rpg now in lockdown no you dont cuz i checkt the demo's on r3 and almost nobody uses that weapon and i know why.

Cuz it's not much practical. The reason that makes you go there will probably be cuz that place has a bit of everything, health, armor, ammo, an orb... can't remember what else. And then the RPG is not a very good weapon in lockdown, as most of the fights happen when players are close to each other, and you easily get to cover as soon as you see the RPG pop out in the hands of your enemy.

I think, leaving the vent as it was, and putting the RPG in a shelf above it or in another vent as it is now, it's enough. A player can sprint couch in there anyway, but he'll have to take 1 or 2 seconds more to get out, take the RPG and get back in. 1 or 2 seconds may be the crucial time for the fan to start pulling, or the enemy to throw an orb in there or at least be ready for you to come out.

But don't confuse the easy to get maps. One thing is the RPG being easy to get but hard to mantain like lockdown, another is to get it easily and mantain it easily like Overwatch. The risk on getting it is very much worse in lockdown. And in powerhouse is the same, unless you're playing with a team backing you up.

Ghostface Killah, please, use some commas (,,,,,,,), at least.

Skaruts wrote:Cuz it's not much practical. The reason that makes you go there will probably be cuz that place has a bit of everything, health, armor, ammo, an orb... can't remember what else. And then the RPG is not a very good weapon in lockdown, as most of the fights happen when players are close to each other, and you easily get to cover as soon as you see the RPG pop out in the hands of your enemy.

I think, leaving the vent as it was, and putting the RPG in a shelf above it or in another vent as it is now, it's enough. A player can sprint couch in there anyway, but he'll have to take 1 or 2 seconds more to get out, take the RPG and get back in. 1 or 2 seconds may be the crucial time for the fan to start pulling, or the enemy to throw an orb in there or at least be ready for you to come out.

But don't confuse the easy to get maps. One thing is the RPG being easy to get but hard to mantain like lockdown, another is to get it easily and mantain it easily like Overwatch. The risk on getting it is very much worse in lockdown. And in powerhouse is the same, unless you're playing with a team backing you up.

Ghostface Killah, please, use some commas (,,,,,,,), at least.

sorry for the ,,,,, i suck at these things

First of all i talk about this map in teamplay and the rpg can be verry helpfull in lockdown my friend ..
what you guys wanna do with this map is your call i dont even play in cal i play cu and we dont use this shit map..
all i did was giving my personal opinion, all im saying is nobody uses rpg in r3 ok i know now its r4 but i watched the demo's of call season where they use r3.. and nobody gets rpg and the reason is just when you enter it plays a sound so the enemy knows your there. and if takes me like 20 sec to get 1 im already death unless ya buddy backs ya up, but if he loses you lose to so 2 kills for nothing and you lost that area and have to start from the bathrooms again.. if your unlucky most of the times you spawn there.. talking about overwatch that rpg is so easy to get and even to maintain cuz you got 4 rocket ammo's a battery and a health pack plus 62.5% (calculations by shoobie) of spawnkilling near mag area. and if ya buddie holds the shotgun and smg nades all that is left is the crossbow and an orb so the rpg is easy.. lostvillage is a diffrent story if ya play it right, rpg is easy to get hard to maintain. etc etc, i just think it sucks to do so much trouble to get an rpg, so its not being used cuz it can get ya killed easily and i think that sucks. if ya controlled that area its just fair to speed crawl that rpg.

sorry for the grammer i lack at these things

the reason no body used the rpg in r3 last cal season was simply because it was too risky getting stuck in the vent. The benefit outweighed the risk, I would get stuck 4 out of 5 times trying to get it (not speed crawling) and it just wasn't worth it. The rpg is very useful on lockdown esp in team play, in one cal match I managed to get it and hold it for up to 6-8 kills and I'd say that is useful.