Dm_Stockade

This was my map for the contest, It was a bit rushed since I trashed my other Idea about a month before the entry date. Theres stuff Id like to add and fix, but unless I ever get the visleafs cut right to improve performance I don't know that I will bother. Performance with 8 players takes a few dips in some areas.

download link for beta: http://files.filefront.com/dm+stockade+ ... einfo.html

Isnt it amazing that almost every map with combine textures has fps issues lol. The reflective properties that are in the combine textures can be a real bitch at times. Pretty cool looking pics. Im liking all these new maps showing up.

hey man, i was one of the judges. in all honesty, your map layout was in my top 3. you just lost a lot of points with me cause it was so empty, IMO, it was just a layout. this could be a GREAT map. go to work my friend. BTW talk to Valar as much as you can. he is the HL2dm mapping king, use his brilliance.

Sacrifist wrote:Isnt it amazing that almost every map with combine textures has fps issues lol. The reflective properties that are in the combine textures can be a real bitch at times. Pretty cool looking pics. Im liking all these new maps showing up.

Actually i made revisions that had replaced the textures with non reflective ones, and it made 0 difference which is why they are back in. performance is 100% due to the level rendering too much of the map.


Combine textures are no different that any others that reflect, so I don't know what you are getting at.


Also {EE}chEmicalBurn, yea I want to add more objects into the map, but couldn't at the time because of the performance, once thats fixed ill go to town with the map

I PMed you Kommander, but I will post here. I also ranked your map in the top 3 of my picks. I strongly encourage you to try and finish this map. I think it could also be a great map. Valar can be a world of help if you are having problems.

KommanderK wrote: Combine textures are no different that any others that reflect, so I don't know what you are getting at.

Im just getting at combine textured maps always seem to have lower fps. I havent looked at your map other then looking at the pictures so I really cant tell how much of your map is textured with that texture, but I do know that they can cause problems. I was simply saying that out of all the combine textured maps Ive seen, only a handful have decent fps. Im not even saying it's do to the combine textures only, just that maps built with those textures seem to have issues. Maybe it has to do with making the brushwork combine like, hell idk, Im just pointing out the fact that it is a strange phenomenon.

Sacrifist wrote:

KommanderK wrote: Combine textures are no different that any others that reflect, so I don't know what you are getting at.

Im just getting at combine textured maps always seem to have lower fps. I havent looked at your map other then looking at the pictures so I really cant tell how much of your map is textured with that texture, but I do know that they can cause problems. I was simply saying that out of all the combine textured maps Ive seen, only a handful have decent fps. Im not even saying it's do to the combine textures only, just that maps built with those textures seem to have issues. Maybe it has to do with making the brushwork combine like, hell idk, Im just pointing out the fact that it is a strange phenomenon.

The combine models such as consoles and chargers and monitors are expensive to render, true reflective textures will hit fps (on some video cards) but i've seen from experience that +showbudget confirms these types of models are expensive to render. From what I can tell you've used these with caution and rightly so.

Furthermore emptiness can be a virtue, the layout of this map allows for good movement and variety of attacks. So emptiness does not necessarily need to be filled with props but can also be fulfilled using decals.

KommanderK, this map cannot be optimized. had a good look through it.
reason being you see everything from everywhere. the only way for you to move on will be to go back to hammer and start adding world geometry that will block vis.

the idea behind adding geometry is to completely block visibility of areas. run your map and do sv_cheats 1 then mat_leafvis 1. visleaves will be shown by a red lining. see how your map is cut to leaves and then maybe take screenshots of the different areas.
go back now to Hammer and look at how this arrays in hammer. what you need to mind is how to put "blockers" so you can' draw a line from one leaf to the other.
and in particular - you decide that this or that area will be area #1 for example. now, see how to block vis to all other areas around it. you'll see that major modifications to your map will be required as now it's literally wide opened. it's going back to the "drawing board" sort of speak.

Something else you might want to try would be applying fade distance values to all your props and items (physics as well as static). naturally different props will require diff settings.
A common setting for weapons / ammo / phys props would be min 1200 max 1500/1700.
static props is again, depending on the layout, their purpose and how far you actually need them to be visible. play with values. fun thing about the fade dist is you can use the circles in your 2d view to pull then in or out according to your map's layout.

Word about props - the more complicated the model is and whether or not it has moving parts the more expensive it will be to render. and naturally, the more of those rich models you have in one area the lower your frames will be - e.g. your combine upper level areas...as Sadist wrote. fade distance is your biggest friend here.

Another thing i'm not a big fan of is too dark maps. you don't REALLY need to flud lights to light up a map. you can use more spots (and point_spotlights with them). find more reasons to light up a corner or middle section of a long wall. see even if you're left with darker patches in the center but all around it you see lit spots you're still giving the player something to work with. note that a lot of people will hardly see anything in your map being so dark, be it their hardware / other restriction or their personal preferences / brightness / gamma settings. so i would look at that personally.

Other than that, your brushwork and detailing are GREAT!!! You sure know how to mind details and create atmosphere so in that respect that map is VERY good. It feels very much like a single player level and that's a great compliment!!!

hope my optimization tips made sense , let me know if they didn't.

val

Awesome beta, and if I may suggest a culprit of your performance challenge: Player models. That's it, is far as I can see, I got great frames at all sections throughout, with the excepton of a couple of super-long views in the corners. You only have to join a full killbox to see the differences player models can make, at least for those of us with slow processors. So while I dig the layout for the most part, personally, I don't see how you're gonna avoid that without altering your vision. Valar has said all there is to say about that.

For a combine-theme map you did very well, it's a hard one to get right. I liked looking up and seeing some farfetched architecture, though it seems you only did it in certain areas. Quite a few other nice detail bits, basement destruction is good.

Only suggestions I have would be to include just a couple of smaller areas, or a few columns here and there to break up the fish-in-a-barrel play that can sometimes happen. I'm thinking mainly of the cool cathedral-room with the ceiling details. Work with Valar's lighting suggestions too.

For some reason the whole thing reminds me of Icepick a bit, probably the extended distances. That map is in my top 3 all-time, so I'd say you're on the right track! A bitchy annoyance: that howling-monkey-snake-in-a-wormhole sound. Pleeez do soemthing about that!! There's plenty of stock alternatives in the list, that one gives me the cringes

[EYE] Valar, Yea i went through a long period of changing the layout and seeing how I could block stuff. the only way i could see now is putting up more walls and making the paths longer, but that would just slow down game play.

Since I don't want to get crazy into working this map again id probably do it slowly on the side, we'll see. I don't want to not finish it, but I also don't want to have it take over my work time again redoing the whole thing haha.

Hey Kommander,

Let me just put this bluntly.............

This is without a doubt, if not the best, one of the best combine maps I have ever seen or played! Period!

Great job and my performance was just fine throughout. Like haymaker, I got great fps throughout the entire map with exceptions as he noted. Great job and great addition to the HL map inventory! Keep up the great work!

The performance concerns are for when the map has 8 players on it, a 4 and maybe 6 player match would fine but i havent tested yet. I just need to work on how much you can see of the outer rooms from the middle rooms

You've really nailed a great combine style on this one, keep going!

Nice combine map the layout was nice. The lowest frame rate I got was in the middle of the map about 200fps, other places 250fps +. For other graphics card that can't handle simple reflections set render to low in video options.

I play tested this map on one of my servers with 12 players the other night and the performance was totally fine! No complaints from any one and just a ton of compliments! Once again, great job!!

hmm weird, maybe I was over reacting. I have a gtx 260, and i was going by the fact i saw some dips here and there, but they where not really noticeable. might have been because i only tested with bots and never had another person playing it.

either way, if it gets anymore server play give me some feedback. Ill start messing with it soon, optimize it a tiny bit and add some more detail. Ill leave weapon placements alone till i hear anything on them